#5 - Build a Business that Lasts with Brandon Vukelich: Investor, Broker to Investors, and Author

[0:00] This is the Wealthy Investor Show, where we don’t just talk about your wealth, we also talk about your holistic health. I’m your host, Matias. And I’m Erica. And this is the Wealthy Investor.

[0:15] We are back with the Wealthy Investor. So this year I set quarterly goals. One of my goal for the year is to have a better relationship with you. I think we have a pretty good relationship, but it is a constant battle. You got to work at it. It’s like the love is a verb thing where you got to really work at the relationship with the kids. I think we have a great relationship as it is, but I think it’s been better with the intentionality. Would you agree on that? Yeah. What was your quarterly goal for how many dates we’re going to go on? This quarter is six. What about last quarter? Four. How many dates did we go on? Four. Oh, you made it. Yes. So we wanted to up the ante a little bit and do six. And we finally got one in. You got the adventure challenge date book. Is that what it’s called?

[1:06] Yes. I gifted that to you for Christmas. And if you haven’t seen it, it was like bombarding my Instagram for two months before Christmas. And I caved, but it’s a page or pages of date ideas that are like scratch off. And once you scratch it off, you have to do it before you can move on. And then there’s a little place for a Polaroid picture and a little description about what you did. And so the most recent one that we scratched off was to recreate a parent’s first date. So we talked to my parents who, so they’re, they grew up in Columbus, Ohio, and they went to the top of the national. Oh, now I’m going to blank. So did insurance? Nationwide. Nationwide. Insurance building. And there’s a restaurant up there and they got French fries together and they sent us pictures. And my dad’s wearing these really short shorts and my mom’s wearing these semi, they weren’t quite Amish dresses, but they were like more conservative dresses, something we would never wear. And so we did the best we could.

[2:15] We did the best we could. We went to the highest restaurant in Harrisonburg. Yes. Which is called the Ridge Room. We went on, it’s a top of a hotel that’s on top of a hill that overlooks the mountains and the city a little bit. They didn’t have French fries, but we just got food and wine and it was. They had bread and cheese. Bread and cheese. That was really nice. Which is fun. But I think one of the, a lot of the date ideas are not necessarily something you have to go out for. Like they have little clues in the book as to what, how much time it’s going to take, what you need to prepare for to be able to do that date. I think if you do this have a babysitter. Yeah. It has little icons that mean different things. It tells you about how much time you have to devote to that date. If you have to go out, if you have to go to the grocery store, if you have to get a babysitter.

[2:58] There’s food involved. Yeah. So we, the first couple were at home dates and they were a lot of fun. And honestly, I think like we had maybe more fun. I would say some of those are more fun than going out. And I think when we think about date nights, we’re always like, Oh, we got to get a babysitter. We got to plan a lot. But something silly at home could be more fun than even going out. Cause you can just be more relaxed. But the first one you blindfolded me and we, you had to guide my hands to make a pot. And that was crazy. It’s a lot of fun. It was really, there was times where I was just doing, I was trying to figure out what I was doing. I was way off and you were just giggling the whole time. So it was, that was, that was one of the more memorable dates we’ve had, I would say.

[3:48] Right. That was a lot of fun. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. We made a peanut butter pie. And then we, oh, we forgot to bake the crust before. We made a peanut butter pie and a rock pie crust. Yeah. So we had to like just scoop the family. It was just a lot of fun. And I think that for us with the kids and everything, like we, we need to be more intentional to make it happen dates in general. But those are like ones that we could do more often, more frequently. And the other one was making a fort and watching a movie in it, which actually we both were like, I don’t really want to do this at first, but then we did it and it was fun. We had, yeah, it was a lot. It was good. We had watched a movie and we had sushi.

[4:30] Yeah. That was a good part of it. So yeah. Anyway. So I would just say if you’re like us and you’re struggling to get those dates, that’s a really good idea. I’m sure there’s other places you could find date ideas like that, where you could do it at home. And another thing was we, we have somebody that comes and helps us with our kids three days a week as getting kids off the bus, that kind of stuff. And I don’t know why I’ve never thought about it before, but can you just stay like an extra hour and we can go out and get food quick? Yeah. That, that would be another easy thing we could do more often. Yes. You thought of that the week before she goes home for the summer. Let me just say for a second, Matias earlier this week had this thought and he’s thinking about his haircut and he’s, Oh, it seems like it would make it a lot easier if I would like, like plant, like schedule these ahead of time. And then I’d have time for them. And I was like, Oh, you mean like plan ahead or something? Like, yeah. I feel like that would work a lot better.

[5:31] Yeah. And you got one today that you had planned for. Yeah. It was like, it worked. I’m going on to going to Colorado for a conference and I have a haircut for now because I scheduled that in and that wasn’t the last minute thing. Usually it’s like the hair is getting a little long. Oh, maybe I should get this cut and then I have to figure out their schedule, my schedule. And so with that, after the piece set me up for a reoccurring every four weeks now, so that’s just going to be in the schedule now. I don’t even have to do anything. Systems. Proud of you. Yeah. Today, we are, we talked to Brandon Vukrich and he is a real estate agent out of Washington, Seattle area. He focuses on investments and multifamily properties. And he just had a book come out Christmas Eve this past year called the Rockstar Real Estate Agent Roadmap Volume 1. And he said he’s currently working on Volume 2. And so we talked to him a little bit about his book, his life, his family, his business, and dived into different parts in all of those.

[6:38] Yeah. I think whether you’re a new agent or a seasoned agent, there’s going to be some things that you could find helpful in his books. Definitely check it out. We’ll definitely have the book linked in the show notes. Mm-hmm. I think what, at least for me, what was so refreshing about him is just how down to earth and very real and honest, open and honest he was about his experience. It’s definitely not someone who claims to know the answer to everything and has like a learning mindset with everything that he’s done in his life. So I appreciate that. In some ways, at least for me, it can help me lean into somebody like that a little bit more than someone who promises me all the answers. Yeah. And it’s not like a get rich quick book. It’s a realistic book of what it is to be in the business, be a broker, be an agent, and how it’s not always glamorous. You got to find balance and provide excellent service so that you can get raving fans.

[7:35] Yep. So enjoy. Here is Brandon. Hello. Thanks. And welcome back again to The Wealthy Investor. We are here with Brandon Vuklich. Vuklich? Please say it for us. That’s all right. Vuklich. Yep. All good. Brandon, you are in the Tacoma, Seattle market. We met through BiggerPockets and because you are an active investor, if our memory serves, you’re around 30 doors. Is that correct? That’s correct. Yep. And you are also a licensed active realtor. I don’t like to use that term as much. I say real estate agent or broker. Sure. Most realtors are the average people doing houses and condos and stuff like that. And I try to distance myself. Even though, yes, I am a realtor. I have paid the dues. Not sure how much long I will, but go ahead.

[8:24] Yeah. There’s some stuff happening right now. I don’t know if anybody’s paid attention to the news, but yeah. But yeah, you’ve had a lot of experience in the business from multi-sides, which is awesome. I think that’s more rare. Not the average agent also is an active investor like yourself. And you’ve gotten so far as to write a book as well about the nuts and bolts of real estate. So we’re really excited to have you. Welcome. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. I don’t do these very often. So this is a pleasure and a privilege. Oh, good. This will be fun. I actually want to start way back at the beginning, probably. I read your book and it was released, I saw, on Christmas Eve this last year.

[9:02] It was. Yep. Was that intentional? No. The deadline I put on myself with my assistant, Rebecca, who helped me, was New Year’s Eve. I had to get it off my plate. I’d been working on it for a few months and the clock was ticking and I just needed to get it done. And that’s just how it came out. Yeah. That must have been a bit of relief then. You could spend Christmas Day without that hanging over your head. Yes. One thing off my to-do list for sure. Yes. So it’s called The Rockstar Real Estate Agent Roadmap. Volume one, because I’m planning a volume two. Very good. Do you have a date for that coming out? I’d say mid-2025, if I’m lucky. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The book itself is very well written. It’s an easy read. And I told Matthias, it’s a book that I wish he would have had when he first started, because a lot of the way you talk about the real estate business is it’s so realistic and down to earth. And it’s not, it’s not the, you’re going to make millions talk. It’s more about here’s what you can expect and here’s how to do it and enjoy your life at the same time and have a balance with your family.

[10:13] But then also you go through very specific step-by-step how to do each part of the process too. And if I heard you correctly, a big focus for you is aligning your values and your goals with how you run your business. So that way it can be fulfilling and satisfying as well. And you had talked about donating to like charities or organizations that you also believe in. You’re not just doing it to do it. It’s something that you, that’s something that speaks to you. And so anyway, it’s a really good book and I would recommend it to anybody who’s starting out or needing just like. That’s encouraging for me to hear you say it because that was the intent of the book. It wasn’t another how to make six figures in real estate. It was just like, this is how to be professional. This is how to be competent, how to set expectations with yourself, with your friends and family. If you’re going to get into the business. Yeah. And you organize the table of contents in such a way that if you needed to look at just a very specific part of a process, you could go to that very easily. And then you would outline it real nicely too. So anyway, I really enjoyed it. I’m

[11:19] not even a real estate agent, but. Thank you. Maybe you convinced her to start. Yeah. It’s a great time to get into business. Even if you are an experienced agent, I need to need, I need to actually read it, but I think it’s always good to have reminders. And I think it’s always fun to, to hear other people are doing it or how they have, there could be one nugget that you, that you do differently than I do that I think you can gleam off of. And so I look forward to reading it always. I don’t think I’m God’s gift to real estate and know everything about being an agent by any means. I just, it was just frustrating over the years of being in the business, seeing every week, such incompetence and unprofessionalism is driving me nuts. And you don’t need a background in sales or business or marketing or customer service or anything to be a licensed broker in Washington. I’m sure the same is pretty much on the country.

[12:08] And it’s just unbelievable how some people are still in the business, but I just hope that someone, like you said, Matias, just somebody gets a good nugget or two out of it. That was my goal, right? And that’s what I try to get out of books is a good nugget or two and apply it to my business. Yeah. I want to start at the very beginning. You mentioned this, I think it was maybe in the introduction to your book or maybe even before, but you originally wanted to be a stock broker. I did. And then you went on a trip to Mexico and that changed. Yep. So funny how life just ends up, right? I definitely want to be a stock broker. Wall Street was my favorite movie in high school. And I just, I love stocks and I love the investing part of it and all of it. But then E-Trade was coming out and I was worried that there weren’t going to be stock brokers. I thought we were just going to basically trade on their own. And I went to Mexico and loved the culture, loved just being abroad and came back, changed my majors that I needed to be Spanish international business. And I wanted to do like supply chain logistics

[13:07] and live somewhere in Latin America. Have you ever lived in Latin America? I lived in Mexico for a summer. I had to do that for my degree. Yeah. Okay. But nope. I went to, I moved to LA in 95 to get closer to Mexico and be more in an international kind of environment. And then I got sidetracked. I was there 15 years and met my wife and became a real estate agent. So very different path. Yeah. And from what I remember, your wife, Jamie. Correct. Yep. You moved to Washington to take over, I think it was, you took over like a property management property, right? That was in the family? No, we had a family property. It was a five unit. My brother and I both at one point decided that we wanted to move back to Washington. He was in LA too, doing a transportation business for like limousines and shopper transportation. He sold it at the right time, did really well.

[14:02] And we both wanted to own more rentals in Washington. And so we looked, we hired a business broker to find us a PM business to buy a property management business to buy. So we found one that had about 92 doors under management. And my brother started first. He went up there to Washington first, got ahead of me and took it over. Did it. And he was about into it. Six months. This is, I hate this business. I’m selling. You’re going to take this over. This is not what I expected. And so my stepsister, our stepsister and I decided to buy him out and take it over. And that was in 2010. And when I took it over for my brother, he had grown it really quickly to 120 doors. And then after about five years myself, I just got tired of being crapped on week after week by tenants and landlords. And it broke my heart because it’s a great business model. I love the property management business model. I plan to do it till the day I retired and just add more doors for myself.

[14:50] And grow it. I got up to about 300 doors when I ended up selling. My stepsister bought me out and I went full commission brokerage at that time. That was about 2015 or so. Okay. And yeah. So I’m self-taught broker. I just dove into this and started doing some deals. People would say, aren’t you licensed? Can you buy a house or sell my house? I’m like, sure, I’ll do it. And then I started to love the transactions. I love getting out to neighborhoods that I even growing up here, never explored. And every property is different. And I just, I really love it. There seemed to be a number of times where you started in like one angle of the business and then something happened. Either somebody transitioned to something different or moved on. And then you had to pivot again. And you seem to be very good at taking those as opportunities to try something new or different or dive into something.

[15:36] I have a little bit of a gypsy attitude. I love that. I don’t think I can do the same thing indefinitely for 30 years. To hear somebody working for Boeing for 30 years. That’s not my personality. I’ve had other businesses in LA, a serial entrepreneur, but yeah, I try to see where there’s, where I can pivot and not be just a regular, like you say, like a realtor. So when I left the XP, I left to go to a small boutique business that focused on investors and trying to get their brokers to be investors themselves. And it was just a great pivot because investors trade not every seven or 10 years, like a home buyer or seller, right? They are, they buy one and they’re ready to go as soon as they can again. So they’re trading, doing deals every two years or three years versus you sell somebody at home. You’re not going to, it’s unlikely you’re going to help them in the next seven to 10 years at the earliest.

[16:24] So is that kind of your niche at the moment for in the sales world is helping other investors? Yes. I, my specialty is two to 20 unit multifamily. I’m getting investors. I have two specific clients. I have house hackers, young couples that don’t want to buy a house. They want to get a house with a dad or ADU or maybe a duplex. And that’s brilliant. I wish I would have done that when I was in my early twenties. And then the other side is helping smaller investors either get their foot in the door in their first multifamily or do 1031 and scale out of their single family rental into a duplex or fourplex. I’ve got one recent client who sold a condo and he bought a fourplex. Right now I’ve got a contract under contract, another individual that sold a single family on the East side in Bellevue and we’re under contract for an eight unit. So these are all clients that are ready to just get out of that single family investor mindset and scale up.

[17:12] And so that’s my specialty. And I walk the talk because that’s, I like boring and conservative multifamily long-term buy and hold. And that’s what I own mostly. I do have some short-term rental and land and other things, but multifamily is my specialty. And I try to walk the talk and just be more of a consultant or advisor for people, not a salesperson. Sure. That’s really helped. That’s my mindset as well. It’s helping them understand what they’re getting and yeah, advise them to make the decision themselves. I think that you can read the old sales books like Zig Ziglar and that kind of stuff. And like the pressure sales that people used to do, I think are just off putting now. I hate that kind of thing.

[17:50] Yeah. I don’t cold call. I don’t do open houses. I don’t do any of the regular real estate agent stuff at all. Yeah. Hey, I got to, let me pivot real quick. If you don’t mind, I have a question for you because you were into stocks at the beginning. I’m curious. I think a lot of, a lot of real estate investors are like a hundred percent real estate and have no stocks. They have no like retirement accounts, that kind of stuff. Where do you have a mix of asset classes now, or are you full into the real estate world? Have abandoned stock passions of yes and yours? I would love to invest as like a side hobby with disposable income. I’m not too worried about just for the hobby of it. But I have very little, I have a couple of Roth IRAs for my wife. I don’t put hardly any into mine. I put all in my wife to protect her a little bit more in case that happens. But no, I have, I don’t even own any stocks. I have a little bit of Amazon and Google for my kids just for them to watch eventually. They’re in high school. Yeah. But I am all in the taste. And that’s the, I’ll tell you why. And it’s not because I’m biased in real estate.

[18:49] I’ve had stocks go to zero. I’ve never, ever going to have my real estate go to zero. It can burn down. I’ll still have the land. I have insurance. I don’t need to watch it every week, every month, every quarter. I sleep very well at night with that type of investment asset class versus stocks. I’m like, oh my gosh. And I, if you buy Microsoft stock, I can go buy windows every day for the year. It’s not going to affect the stock price. You know, all you do is you buy it and you hold it and you pray that it goes up. That’s really what you do when you invest it. And, and is your entire portfolio close to you in terms of my holdings? Yeah. Your real estate holdings. Most of them are in Idaho, the Boise Eagle market. Again, I still have one, three unit with some partners here in Tacoma.

[19:31] It’s a beautiful property overlooks the water. It’s the front units are short-term rental in the back as a midterm rental that we rent to family nurses. I only got into that because I want to understand that model, right? Cause I was working with some investors and I thought I should probably understand what it’s like to be a short-term rental operator. Sure. But that’s not my, that’s not my thing. I’m buying a little long-term multifamily. So I’m a lease. I’ll talk to you in 12 months. Yeah. That’s awesome. I think it’s interesting because we, I’ve explored some options as far as doing a backdoor Roth. And if you can get a really good write-offs in one year, like if you got into some accelerated depreciation to offset the taxes you would pay on the backdoor Roth to then do a self-directed Roth IRA to invest into real estate as well. I’ve had some schemes in the back of my head of considerations, but we, we do hold some, that’s not a huge port part of our portfolio, but we do hold just index 500 kind of stuff. Yeah. Russell 3000s and things like that instead of, yeah, I don’t, I can’t say I would understand Microsoft, for example, that as a business

[20:35] anywhere as well as the multifamily I own or the, the, the townhouse, I can understand that way better, the market, everything, the ins and outs. And so it feels like a more secure investment for me as well. A good book that got my mind to change out of that is called Killing Sacred Cows. I read that. I don’t remember how many years ago, well over a decade. And it’s about, yeah, you get all the savings or investment built up, but then what, then you retire and you drain on those or they go down versus you get a rental properties that, that you peel off cashflow every month. And that’s what you live on, not depleting these investments that go down to zero eventually. I, yeah, I agree completely. And you can use it now. You don’t have to wait until you’re 65, right? Everything’s next.

[21:16] Yeah. You had mentioned your kids are in high school. And so in my head, I’m doing the math backwards a little bit. When they were young or when you and your wife started having kids, that was a little bit before you would have started your brokerage or before you got your brokerage license, right? My daughter was born in 2007. I got licensed in 2010. Okay. What were the conversations like with Jamie moving to Washington and starting a family and going through? Oh, that was a tough time. So 2007, real quick, just, I was working for waste management, growing a competitor to pods, a portal storage business. Oh, cool. And it was tanking quickly because of the economy. And at this time, this is why my brother and I were looking for a PM business.

[21:58] So I was always going to make the shift. I convinced her like, this is what’s best. We can’t live in LA. This is not the place to raise a family. In my opinion, I want my kids to experience what I experienced growing up, camping, fishing, outdoor stuff. We thought it would be a better cost of living, but it’s really not that much cheaper than LA here now. It’s crazy. And I just want to be close to my parents and my step-sister’s family and everything. My brother lives in Hawaii. He’s a broker on Oahu. But my wife is very easygoing. She’s a state-owned mom. She goes with the flow. And it was tough leaving her best friends and family at the time. But her mom has since moved up here as well. She lives in Tacoma with us, so near us. Okay. So when she sounds like she, she can adjust very easily. Yeah. Yeah.

[22:42] And when you all had young children, so we have a seven-year-old, a four-year-old and an almost two-year-old. Oh man. So our life is very busy and it’s really tough. We talk about this all the time. It’s really tough to balance just the hours that come with real estate. And you mentioned this in your book too. I identified a lot with that, how it, they just happen, but all hours and you have to set your own boundaries, what that work, what that means for you and what works for your family. I’m curious how you and Jamie figured that out. I imagine it didn’t start off super smoothly from the beginning. I wasn’t super busy in the beginning. As I got busier, she started to understand what it means. And my step-sister again is a broker and my brother’s a broker. So she’s surrounded by people that are other agents and understands the lifestyle. And she knows I got to do what I got to do to put a roof over the head and make sure everybody’s fed and bills are paid. And yes, I don’t, I don’t drop everything on a minute’s notice for everybody just wants to see a house. Like that’s not how I operate.

[23:44] I did that when I was first licensed and I learned my lesson very quickly. That is a waste of time and you will get burned over and over. So now it’s a very formal, formulated process that I have with clients. And I, we would just want a vacation in Mexico and I had to, I’d bring my laptop and yeah, I had to write an offer and I had to respond to some things. I’ve got some feasibility contingencies to get through with a client and I have brokers that cover for me, but I still, I feel like I owe it to my clients. They’re spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. I owe them some very personal attention as much as I can do. And most of them respect when I’m on vacation, but I do have to chime in. If something’s going sideways, I don’t want that deal to take either, but she gets it. And I try not, I don’t answer the phone obviously during dinners and things like that. We’re not saving lives here. It’s not a matter of life and death. But sometimes you are up against a deadline and we’re supposed to be going to a basketball game. And I’ve got one hour for this client to get back to me and sign something electronically that I’ve got to forward

[24:42] to the other side. It’s super frustrating and it can be a challenge, but I just know after this many years, you just have to expect that. Thank you for mentioning that. That’s what I put in the book. You have to have these expectations going in. It’s not right or wrong. I know agents that say, I only work nine to five and I will get back to you within 24 hours kind of thing. I don’t work weekends. It’s like, okay. Yeah. I know for me, it’s been helpful when I know that something is going sideways because sometimes it can be going sideways and processing it internally, but it hasn’t said anything yet. And so I have no idea that there’s this other stress hanging out over his head until he says to me, just so you know, I’m dealing with something big over here.

[25:28] Oh yeah. My wife knows when I, yeah. When that stuff goes sideways, she knows she can sense it in me. Oh, really? Oh yeah. She can pick it up? Oh yeah. Oh, I’m not just over here TikToking. I’m not. And that’s, and this is what clients and most of the general public don’t understand. And I can’t speak for every agent, but I take it very personally. There’s a lot of liability on our behalf. If we forget to check one box or something, miss some term. And I really don’t want disappointed clients. I really want them very happy and creating ravey fans out of them. And their experience was not stressful. I try to take that on so they don’t see it. And man, yeah, there’s been some over 14 years of doing this. There have been some ones that just almost wrecked me. Yeah. You mentioned, I don’t know if you want to talk about this a little bit, a deal you were working on that went a little sideways while the, while your folks were on their honeymoon. Oh gosh. And you took care of it behind the scenes so that they didn’t have to be bothered. How did you, how’d you orchestrate that? This, these were clients that were selling a home

[26:31] and they were under contract to buy a home. And this was a very hot market. So we were fortunate to be under contract on this other home that they were buying. So I don’t know why they planned their wedding and honeymoon, right? As the same time, give me a break. So they were on their, they were on their honeymoon and the buyer of their home was starting to get cold feet over the most ridiculous thing ever. A hot water heater that he thought was too old. And not that the square footage was not accurate in the public record. He’s bringing this up after we’re supposed to close. And he was willing, he said he was, and I, I didn’t know if I believed him or not at the time, but I just didn’t want to risk it. He said he was going to kill the deal or if that water heater didn’t get replaced.

[27:12] And so called the plumber, got him out there, $1,600 later, I paid for it out of pocket. I just went off, got it done. Never told my clients. I said, oh, I had to tell them what we were doing though. But I said, don’t worry about it. It’s being taken care of. This is not not on you. But cause I had to get the permission obviously to swap out their water heater, but I didn’t let them know what was all happening in the background. And yeah, I, you do what you got to do sometimes. I think some people may have dug their heels on the ground and told that buyer, good luck or whatever, and start all over. But I could not in my mind, comprehend telling my clients on their honeymoon that we lost this buyer of the house, which could fail to lose the opportunity to buy the other home. No, never really happened. Good for you. Yeah. Good for you. That’s worth the money right there. And I’m sure they were raving fans after that. Yeah, they were. They’re great.

[27:58] That’s awesome. You had mentioned too, along that line, just the emotions involved in just the whole process of buying and selling. And that’s one reason why I think investment was enjoyable to you because it’s more of a business transaction as opposed to an emotional investment in your home. And I was curious what your thoughts were on that. And just as I know from talking with Matias, it can be emotional on both ends. A lot of buyers have a lot of anxiety going into the process. A lot of sellers have a lot of anxiety. It often brings up just a lot for everybody. And we often joke, we’re going to slip my business card on the side. I know. My favorite way to approach it to my consultations, I tell people, I cannot eliminate emotions 100% from a transaction. It’s never going to happen. The goal is to let logic prevail at all times whenever we can, right? There’s going to be buyer emotion. There’s going to be seller emotion. How can we limit that and let logic prevail, especially when we’re negotiating like inspection items and things like that. And my buyers like all freaked out over something with, let’s say the sewer line, right? And it’s, we got a bid for

[29:00] $11,000. I take that and I go to the seller of the listing and say, look, this is still a good property. My buyer’s still in water, but we found this huge thing. We need $11,000 credit to fix it. This is, any buyer is going to have this problem, right? So you don’t want to start all over with a new buyer, with new inspections, bugging new tenants, making out another questionable transaction that you’re going to close or not. Give us $11,000. Let’s keep this deal on forward. Let’s keep it going forward. I try to present the logic here, right? So not that the buyer’s all freaking out and then showing the emotional side, but the logical side is there’s a sewer line problem. It’s $11,000. Almost any savvy buyer and investor is going to find that. So let’s just keep the deal moving forward.

[29:38] That reminds me, Brandon, I feel like there was a distinct period in my business where I got busy enough that if you’re busy enough, you start having problems. And when they multiply at the same time, it can be really stressful. And I remember being pretty down at one point where I was just, everything was, it was just raining on me in all directions. It was really weighing me down. And I think at that point I decided, you know what, there’s only so much I can do and getting personally invested in that doesn’t really help make it better. And it might actually make it worse. And so there was this distinct moment where I just had to realize, okay, look, all you can do is all you can do. Like you can do the best you can be there for them, but you can’t let yourself get dragged down with it. So there’s, I haven’t actually read the book, but the subtle art of not giving a F. Yes. Yeah. I haven’t actually read the book, but that title was like my mantra.

[30:31] So I don’t even know if that’s what the book’s about, but I, I basically just, you know what, like I do absolutely care and I do want the best for my clients, but I can’t let myself get dragged down because my job is just going to, my performance is going to be worse. And so I will show up and do everything I can, but I can’t get emotionally invested like I used to. And ultimately it’s their decision, right? If they get worked up over something you don’t think is a big deal. Like I can’t try and change their emotions about being worked up over that. I try and talk sense into them about this is not a big deal on almost every property we see, but if it bothers them enough that they don’t want to, I don’t want to force anybody to buy something or sell something they’re not ready to sell, whatever. So I trust the process. I’m a Christian.

[31:10] I God’s plan, like doesn’t happen. Okay. We’ll get them on the next one. I’m not too worried about it. And, and with experience and actually having a good amount of business that you’re working with, like that’s also a luxury that you can not feel like it’s a huge deal that one deal is going to fall apart. Like you’ll be fine. And, and they’ll probably buy something else. And I’ve been there. You don’t want to work with a desperate agent. That’s, that is a very, uh, not a good space to be in because they’re not really looking out for the client’s best interest because they got bills to pay and they need that check. Yeah. And I’ve been there starting out and you’re like, oh man, please don’t, you know, please stick. I have this deal. Please stick. But yes, now that busier, you get a little more likely and you can really focus on that. I tell them it’s all my clients.

[31:52] I really, at the end of the day, I would like to make something on this deal, the commission, whatever’s being offered. But if I make nothing and I create a raving fan out of you, I’m not so short-sighted. That has to be this incredible deal. I’ve created, I need a funnel to be still for the next 10, 12 years or so of my career. And the more raving fans I create, the more referrals you get and everything just expands from there. So. Absolutely. That’s a good reminder too, that as agents, you serve as this emotional anchor for your clients who you’re working with too, because they’re likely feeding off of you. And if you’re anxious and upset about something, then that might tell them that they also need to feel that way.

[32:29] Totally agree. Yeah. That’s important. I wanted to ask you too, you led into this just a second ago, but you had said something in your book about, I wish I had written down this quote, but it was something about organizing your business so that you can be consistently on cloud nine more often than not. And it was, do you remember this? A little bit. You were talking about, you know, how the business can be, it can feel so bipolar sometimes and there can be dry spots and then there can be very lucrative spots. And just to keep your sights set more on this consistent lifestyle pattern and business model so that you can consistently enjoy it, I think is what you were saying, but you can. Yes. Understand that there will be highs and lows. I just, I think even productive big teams have highs and lows for sure. Right? So my assistant, Rebecca’s awesome. She ebbs and flows with my first bipolar personality as business ebbs and flows a little bit. And you just have to trust that you’re the things that you’re working on, the systems you’re putting in place are going to be fruitful in the end. And if they don’t work, you’re always implementing new things to try.

[33:40] I hired a new coaching program this summer or this year in January, just to try something new to add to the marketing. And if it doesn’t work, maybe got us some new nuggets to try at least. But I’m always trying to pivot and do new things. I’m not huge on paying for leads like on Zillow or any of those other things. I do pay for leads on bigger pockets and that’s a big source of my business. But also being in the business 14 years at my sphere is now to the point where it’s, it’s churning people that I helped years ago are now selling or whatever like that, or their kids are buying now or whatever. Oh, their kids are buying now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’m old. We’re getting there too. We recently realized the other day we’re becoming birders, which I think happens as we approach 40. A clear sign that you’re getting older.

[34:30] Something we get into. Pickleball of next. There you go. In your book, you had mentioned, I want to ask you what your favorite book is too, but I also wanted to point out in your book, you mentioned a specific book in particular multiple times, Never Split the Difference. Yes. And I was curious, is that still your favorite book? One of the top three. Everybody will say Rich Ed Portad because it does deserve to be up there. But when I, there’s, there’s been a few books that I really just absolutely changed my mindset on things and Miracle Morning for its own reasons, but business wise, Never Split the Difference, Chris Voss. The nuggets I got out of that instantly changed the way I did business and saved clients thousands of dollars. That, that month I was reading that book. I implemented something that helped a gal, a buyer save, I want to say 11,000, $12,000 because we didn’t meet in the middle, like a lot of agents and people do. Just meet in the middle. You ask for 10, well, I’ll count it at five. Okay. Let’s accept the five. No, we asked for 10. We’re sticking with 10 and they come back

[35:33] and not for five. You’re like, okay, maybe nine, but you don’t just jump to the middle. I, and that book was just absolute gold. The one that stuck, stuck out to me was how he says, is a win always good? If I’m, if I want to wear black shoes and my wife wants me to wear brown shoes. So I put one of each on that and look like an idiot. When I go out, I’m like, that’s a perfect analogy. He’s whirlwind of the work. That’s great. And for those that haven’t read it, it’s, it’s a hostage negotiator. Chris Voss, he’s an ex FBI hostage negotiator. He does coaching classes now too. And he’s a big business consultant, but yeah, he, it’s just got a lot of great stories in there that are holy cow. Like can’t even imagine what he was to talk about stress to navigate and negotiate. And all of them went well, but boy, just really applicable to business. I think about negotiate for buying a car analogy, or even with my kids, ways to negotiate. It’s such a good, but man, so much psychology in it. It is. Yeah. I want to read that. I have not read it yet, but after hearing you describe it, I’d like to, what about just a lesson? You have had many lessons

[36:40] that you’ve talked about already today, but any in particular that you throw out there for anybody in the business, or even I would say partners of people in the business that you offer out? So if you’re asking for like lessons I’ve learned, or I’d say just taking action is going to get you massive education. Too many people, you’ve heard it before, analysis paralysis. Yeah. So they sit around waiting for that unicorn deal that doesn’t exist because they don’t want to make a mistake. I’ve made horrible mistakes in real estate. Some of the cost, the worst one cost me a million dollars. And yeah, ouch is right. And but I’m not ashamed of those. I made the best decisions I thought I was making at the time. It’s easy when you’re hindsight, but at least I took action.

[37:23] Another one was my buddy and I, my buddy and I, we bought some new construction speculation in Vegas. This is 2004, 2005. And we were using a realtor who was not an investor. And we got our butts handed to us for sure. When the market crept out and those houses were diamond built, it was just a very terrible strategy, but I took action. Something I learned, I never learned any of that in the four years of business school, right? That was real life application that I got. So I agree with that completely. I think like you, usually real estate investing is not a zero sum game. Normally you’re, you might lose some of it, but you’re not gonna lose all of it. And people often treat it like it’s you’re investing $200,000 and you’re gonna lose $200,000 if it goes wrong, but usually it’s not that bad. But certainly the lessons learned, even if it does go awry, like you’re talking about is so valuable because you’re going to make better decisions in the future or learn something. Hope to share with other people so they don’t make those mistakes right now. I’d say, I hopefully have saved some clients tens of thousands of, or hundreds of thousands of dollars

[38:26] by letting them know, don’t go down that route because I’ve been there. Yeah. Is that something that you have also taught your children? Uh, yeah, my son is into cooking and he gets very frustrated when he doesn’t do a recipe right. And I’m like, at least you’re just trying. Like I doubt every chef in the world aces the new recipe on the first go around and stuff. So yeah, I try teaching that. And I read a book by Dave, what’s his name? John Tollblank, a book about raising financially smart kids. Dave Ramsey, his daughter. Sorry. He’s gone at Tollblank. And that was a great book, just a sidetrack with it. And teach kids about how to invest, make offerings or give back to the community and stuff like that.

[39:10] And so I’ve been, they’ve been on a salary for years now. And part of that goes to saving, part of that goes to investing and offering and they can spend the rest however they like, as long as not drugs or something illegal, but yeah. So I don’t know if they’re listening too much or taking it all in, but I’m just trying to do what I can. I can say to give them a leg up. Is that smart money, smart kids maybe? No, it’s raising financially smart kids or something like that. Oh, okay. Okay. There’s one similar, I think his daughter co-wrote that we, I think bought at one point, I don’t think we actually read it, but we, with our kids ages, we want to start implementing some sort of structure for them to start earning money. And I think it’s a huge, that’s a really interesting topic to me a lot that I struggle with because I didn’t grow up with money.

[39:53] And I think raising kids that are, you know, we’re going to have maybe some more opportunities than I would have financially, potentially, but certainly don’t want them to take that for granted. Do not want, want them to work really hard at whatever they do. Cooking is an awesome thing. And what, when you were talking about that, it reminded me of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s 10,000 reps, right? And that’s one of the things I’ve thought in the back of my head with a lot of things that I take on is if you wait until you’re, you can’t wait until you’ve got the 10,000 reps to start. Right. You’ve got to just start and you’ve got to start chipping away at those and you’ll get better and better. It is interesting. They have a bit of a different mindset than I did as a kid. Like our seven-year-old daughter the other day, she told us that she was going to start saving for a house.

[40:38] Awesome. Which I don’t think I ever would have thought I could even buy a house when I was her age. I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. That was even a possibility. And so it’s fun to see, but I like your, I like the take, take action mindset too. We’re trying that, this is a little bit of a different vein, but we’re trying that a little bit with her with gymnastics because she, she loves gymnastics. She’s so good at it, but she has a lot of social anxiety being in a gymnastic class. Yeah. And so instead of just keeping her out of that, we’re, we signed her up for taking her, but we told her she can choose whether she participates or not. That can be when she’s ready, she can do that, but at least let’s just get you in the room and that, and then we’ll see where we go from there.

[41:15] Yeah. And kids seem to, they want to be experts right away from day one. And like you talk about, yeah, it’s all about practice and taking action. You’re not going to be great at guitar or anything else or basketball. Just because you started, it takes time. So yeah. Same with investing, it takes time. You’re not going to make millions overnight in real estate. Usually it is a slow game. Yes. Lots of patience. And house hacking is such a great strategy for people getting started. It’s getting a equity line of credit on that property while you’re in it, doing it again on another one to get a duplex quad or whatever. That’s just, yeah, perfect, perfect way to start. I love that you’re doing that. Encouraging for people to do that.

[41:56] Yeah. Brandon, thank you so much for joining us today. It was really fun to talk to you, walk through your book a little bit. Yeah. I appreciate you mentioning it. I’ll look forward to volume two. We focused on investor-friendly agents. Oh, you. Oh, there you go. Yeah. Perfect. We’ll have to have you back and talk about that one. Sounds good. Thank you guys. Thanks for listening to the Wealthy Investor Podcast, where we talk about wealth and holistic health. If you enjoy our content, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and hear new episodes every Thursday. If you really like our content, you can follow us on social media at The Wealthy Investor. Wealthy spelled W-E-L-L-T-H-Y. Wealthy Investor Podcast.

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