#9 - Mastering Real Estate with Lisa Moore: From House Hacking to Multifamily Investments

[0:00] this is the wealthy investor show where we don’t just talk about your wealth we also talk about your holistic health i’m your host matthias and i’m erica and this is the wealthy investor well unfortunately it’s just me today so that is because erica is in kansas visiting her family surprising her dad for his 60th birthday so very important thing i’m glad that she could be there that means that i am the only person in this podcast so sorry those that are raving erica fans which i know are vastly outweigh the ones that are raving matthias fan which is great i’m not jealous at all but i wanted to talk a little bit about some of the investment stuff we’re doing right now just to kind of get key into to what our world looks like on a day-to-day basis so we have a property that we recently acquired that we are doing trying to do a burr method on it that means that we are we bought it we’re going to rehab it and then we’re going to try to refinance the money out of it technically in this case we are probably getting financing prior to refinancing or prior to all the repairs being done and we’re going to use an after repair value appraisal now that would give you 80

[1:12] of whatever they say the value will be after the repairs are done so ideally that means that we have no cash in the actual property at the end of the day and that it cash flows so it’s a really fun strategy if you can pull it off i have successfully before but i think this one is gonna be a little bit harder with how the expensive interest rates are but it’s in the location that i want to keep long term so i want to try to figure out how to make it work some of the ideas that i have had is furnishing it and putting it on furnished finders in our town we are not allowed to do airbnbs so doing something that it’s at least a month-to-month rental could be an appealing option that would give somebody fulfill a need of somebody who needs more short-term housing that may not want to travel with their furniture traveling nurses is a very easy example of that but there are other opportunities or other situations that this applies and so that you are able to get a little bit more of rent for providing the furniture for providing more flexible terms because at the end of the day you probably will have more vacancy in this kind of model so we’re going to experiment with that we’re going to see

[2:17] what that looks like in our town we’re not really sure if they’re the market strong enough to really make it work long term if we get a long-term renter through it that’s fine we do not need our furniture then we can use that for staging in the future so there’s a few different options but we’re trying to make get a little more creative with this one to make the numbers work because it’s a property you want to hold long term it is a property that we could just sell we get a profit on but again trying to find a way to keep it if at all possible there’s another property that we’re working on that is a double wide in a town like 20 minutes away from us and that one has been a complete mess from day one we bought it for a very cheap price it needed a lot of work but it also came with a tenant that wasn’t paying so this tenant was going to own the property it was at least the own kind of scenario but the tenant was also very paranoid so i don’t think they ever actually signed a formal document was never able to produce a formal document that said that she owned it or anything like that so we had

[3:22] to evict her basically because she wasn’t paying rent even though she was claiming that she owned it but she had been making her payments she did make some payments so she did lose some money on it unfortunately for her i think maybe there were some drugs involved potentially that maybe made her lose her job or her money went to other places instead of paying her rent to own kind of situation we took that house that double wide and we put her on a permanent foundation we actually had to reframe a lot of it so it was double wides don’t have uh traditional two by four studs and that’s part of the reason they hang up that like that you can tell that the type of material i don’t even know what it’s called that’s lighter than drywall so if you want to put drywall in a double wide you’re going to have to frame it and so that’s what we did we basically rebuilt this house it’s got luxury vinyl plank on the floors it’s got granite countertops it’s got a white kitchen got a pretty open concept and it’s got three bedrooms two full baths everything’s new it looks great so i think it it’s going to be a

[4:29] really appealing property once we get out there the one problem is there was never a title on this and so to get this all sorted we have to go to the dmv to file for lost title then once we get that lost title we can say we can relinquish the title because it’s now on a permanent foundation and it’s actually real estate not just like a vehicle so it’s kind of silly that we have to go through this these hoops just to relinquish it and make it real estate so we’re exploring how that looks we’re afraid that it’s going to take a long time so we think at the same time this would be a perfect opportunity to do another lease to own option for somebody so our target demographic we’re thinking is maybe somebody that started a business for example if they started a business and they don’t have two years of taxable income or high enough taxable income to qualify for a loan they could be a really great candidate for a lease to own option where they are making plenty of money now to afford it they are they have everything in place that they’ll be able to get a mortgage for it down the line and that gives us time to get that title sorted as well while we’re going through it but they would

[5:38] we would want a down payment so we’re actually refinancing this double y getting as much money out of it as we can with the finance because we want to be able to use that recycle that money into something else another project another deal and then we are going to try to get a down payment for a couple reasons another reason one reason would be to get more cash to get more cash to reinvest to reuse but then also that the buyer has skin they need to have some skin in the game to to you know we want them to take care of the property they want we want them to treat it like it’s theirs and we want them to buy it then okay so we’re exploring that option and hopefully we’ll have an update for that here soon and in a personal life since erica’s gone i have all the kids which is chaotic but some for some reason i think we all get in the zone when this happens when erica leaves we kind of like all right it’s game time we got to go i actually downloaded visual timer for our apple tv and played that on our tv this morning and last morning to you know kind of cue them in how much time we have to get ready and both yesterday morning this morning we you know we were out the door before

[6:46] eight o’clock which like never happened we’re both home for some reason so it’s never as much fun alone but manageable with three little kids we did have a giant blowout i haven’t had a blowout to deal with for a long time but i did have a giant blowout this morning to deal with a wet bed last night so good times at the climber household let’s introduce the guests here it’s lisa moore lisa moore’s out of salt lake city lisa’s into the multi-family space primarily buying and holding looking for the value add opportunities her and her husband are partners in these opportunities and she’s got a great perspective she gives some really good advice if you’re looking to get into this space if you’re looking to get into real estate at all if you’re looking to be just more passive and just take all the advantages of being a real estate professional taking advantage of the tax benefits that happen with that and being purely passive we get into syndications a little bit which is one of the ways you can you know take advantage of all that and be purely passive and talks a little bit about her routines and things that she does and her relationship dynamics but she is awesome so a

[8:01] great person to follow on instagram and everything but without further ado listen to lisa moore on the wealthy investor and welcome to the wealthy investor we’re here with lisa moore lisa we are we have been connected through a network we’re a part of with brandon turner but we also met in person then at the better life conference in denver that was a lot of fun lisa you want to tell us a little bit about who you are what you all invest in and your story getting to this point yeah so yeah my quick backstory so i grew up in massachusetts i moved to salt lake in 2016 and i’d always had an interest in real estate and then when i moved to salt lake i knew that i was going to want to buy a house so i rented for a year figured out where i wanted to live but i also knew that i did not want to be house poor and i didn’t want my expenses to change so i decided to house hack which back then i don’t think even had the name house hack and it was back when you actually were literally like renting out a bedroom in your house or someone’s on vacation and they’re renting their entire house not these like ultimate experiences

[9:08] that it’s like grown into now um and then met my husband shortly after that and we really started buying in 2020 and we focused on small to mid-sized multi-family here in right now we’re focusing just on utah we own in colorado and in raleigh where lps on a syndication okay but right now we’re focusing just on the utah market and the two to 50 unit asset is what we’re really looking for typically value add or distressed property my husband’s a gc so we like the problem child houses yeah that’s one of the things that we talked about this as well but that’s what we’re getting into as well we enjoy we’ve done a number of flips and that kind of stuff and just scaling that up really i mean i know the problem becomes a lot more complex and there’s more to it with leasing and other strategies when you get into the multi-family but at the end of the day you’re creating value right you’re increasing the value and taking advantage of that i want to buy it and hold so refinance out the cash that we put into it is that kind of the strategy you all look are looking at as well buy and hold primarily

[10:14] yep yeah buy and hold long-term rentals we’ve dabbled a little bit in the short-term rental but yeah the long-term rental buy and hold is definitely what we like the most and what we focus on so getting that long-term kind of passive income yes yeah if you buy something we spend all this time rehabbing and fixing it up the last thing i want to do is like then go and sell it when it’s actually like cash flowing nightly and making money right that’s what we that’s what we like what let me get into your why a little bit i mean what what drives you all where are you all trying to head to do you have a clear path as to what you’re aiming for yeah the freedom of time is like my biggest thing and i think that’s probably the same for a lot of people but to not be tied to the nine to fives i used to be a financial analyst and i never hated my job i always enjoyed where i worked i had awesome employees awesome bosses i wasn’t i fortunately was not someone who was like absolutely miserable and hated their job but i’d so much rather be doing what i’m doing now where i can dictate my schedule if i don’t work work doesn’t get done if we don’t buy stuff we don’t increase our

[11:19] cash flow so i like the direct feedback of the harder we work the more we get in return and we don’t have an i’m all like i don’t care about a door count i know a lot of people are like i want to get to f the amount of doors but right you could own a thousand doors that break even or i could own a hundred doors that cash flow five hundred dollars each or a thousand dollars each like we’re more on the financial goal and we’re we’re redoing our budget right now what we want things to look like but we look more at okay what do we financially want to get to and what do we need to really live the lifestyle we want and that’s what we’re going towards i’ve loved i’ve been doing more podcasts and doing speaking and things like that and i’ve really enjoyed that and the education side of things but we’d love to get to a point financially to where we want and then be able to we’ll always buy and sell real estate like we love doing it yeah but not have to do it as much as we are now and be able to do more speaking do more education potentially do like a coaching or mentorship program something like that

[12:23] i love helping people get involved in real estate i think it’s such a powerful thing going to be 40 this year and i think my generation i think it’s going to be really hard for people to have an amazing retirement based solely on what they’ve saved in their 401k and i don’t even factor in social security that’s not even anywhere on my budget of the future for retirement and what i’ll have will we get some maybe but i’m not even banking on it and i think it’s so important for people to invest outside of their 401k and invest in things like real estate to really build their wealth and make sure that they can have the retirement that they want and the beauty of it too is that you get to take advantage of the tax benefits as you go and you get to take advantage of the cash flow as it goes and you have control of it because you can sell it you could do all sorts of different things as you go along instead of just hoping that the market goes up yeah and even if they just invest passively you still get those benefits of the depreciation and the increase in cash flow and things like that so even if it’s something that you’re like this i’ve dabbled in real estate i hate

[13:27] it or you have no desire like you can still benefit from real estate without having to actively be investing so we’ll talk about that a little bit so you said passively i’m assuming you mean like syndication like being a limited partner you want to give a pitch to that to anybody who may not be as familiar with it yeah when you’re buying these larger assets and typically it’s with larger assets you’re typically not going to syndicate like a duplex or a triplex but when you’re getting into the millions of dollars of purchase price a lot of times people are syndicating those meaning so if i’m purchasing a property that’s a 10 million dollar property and i have to come up with four or five million dollars between down payment and rehab and holding costs and all this most of the time a single person doesn’t have two three four five million dollars to invest so they’re going one day one day maybe but basically like i would go out and find people that are looking to invest their money and get a return so basically syndication is when i’ll take other people’s money and they have nothing to do

[14:34] with the deal they’re just giving me their money passively and i’m giving them a return on their money so a lot of people will start to get confusion with like partnerships and syndications but if you’re partnering or jv-ing then every person that you’re dealing with that your partner jv-ing with is supposed to have an active role so even if you’re doing like short-term money lending technically if that person is just giving you money and has nothing to do with the deal that technically would be a syndication and have sec rules because anytime you’re taking somebody’s money and they have nothing nothing to do with the deal that’s when those sort of the securities comes in and you should be doing things properly with syndication but most people don’t but syndications are a whole different world if you’re trying to lead them it’s very complicated there’s a lot of rules like you’re talking about with the securities but as a limited partner like you said it’s you’re really passive and that’s the goals if you usually are targeting people that are accredited investors that means that their net worth is a million dollars outside of their primary residency

[15:45] or they make three hundred thousand dollars as a couple or two hundred thousand dollars if you file individually for the past two years but basically the idea that the benefit is that yeah you’re completely passive you can just you can if you trust the operator you vet the operator and you vet the deal you look over the the numbers which they’ll usually provide you some information about the the project they’re investing in you can just invest your money and sit back and not have to answer calls from the tenants not have to worry about fixing up the property usually there’s some value add involved with those kind of deals but yeah it’s a really awesome thing and like you were hinting at before is you get the tax benefits right like you get to depreciate you get a k1 for your taxes and you get to depreciate that and if you’re a high income person and again i’m talking to a lot of realtors who don’t even understand the position they’re in being a real estate professional they can get a lot better tax benefits for deals like this even where they don’t even have to worry about finding the deal

[16:48] they don’t have to worry about renting it and somebody else can take care of it for them so it’s a truly an awesome win kind of scenario yeah we do both we’re obviously active investors but i also invest passively as an lp because you still we focus on the smaller ones the two to 50 unit assets and i invest vena jetty and pace warrior one of the people that we have money with right now and i i like the balance of the active and passive investing so we do both sides of that yeah absolutely i same i’m in a mobile home park syndication as a limited partner right now what about if there is somebody who’s wanting to take a more of an active role in the investing world what would you think you mentioned house hacking earlier that’s certainly an option what do you think if there was a person getting started where what would be some strategies that they could do to get their foot in the door to build some equity to all that i think the biggest thing is they have to figure out sort of what their goals are and what their time restrictions are because i work with people i have a couple examples

[17:56] so i have one person that i work with that he loves his w-2 he’s in the tech world he does very well and he wants to learn about real estate but he doesn’t want he doesn’t want a second job right now so he’s house hacking so he’s learning that side of thing and he does want to invest or invest with us but he’s someone where if you love your w-2 because your w-2 is very powerful people underestimate especially when it comes to financing how essential a w-2 is if you’re buying like less than four four units than under but he’s someone like he wants to learn but he doesn’t want to quit his w-2 and then i know people that they’re doing everything they can to get out of w-2 as fast as possible so i think it’s deciding do you how active do you want to be because if you’re someone that’s like i just want whatever can get me out of my w-2 as fast as possible and you want super hands-on none of these are easy but like you couldn’t get into flipping because that’s going to be active income you could do wholesaling that’s going to be active income that’s going to be quicker income what we do the

[18:59] buy and hold tends to be a little longer till you start making money and you’re not necessarily you’re going to buy a duplex you’re probably not going to be replacing your income with one duplex right so that one that can take longer to build up we were crazy buying and rehabbing and doing huge value adds so we have small properties that do very well but i think a lot of people need to figure out what their goal is and how active they want to be because if it’s a longer term game then they can like the other generalist like but like he can buy like one or two small multi-families a year and have them managed and slowly build up even if he buys one a year for the next like five six years he’ll have five six properties now yeah in that time frame and he just wants to get to the point where by the time he’s a certain age like he had the option okay do i want to keep doing my job do i want to do contract work or do i want to dive into real estate full-time so i think it’s really deciding what your goals are and what you want and i think so many people if you follow one person if you follow

[20:06] being a jetty you’re going to feel like you need to just do multi-family if you follow pace morby you’re going to feel like i have to do single family and sub two and flipping and if you follow there’s all these people where if you follow one specific person you’re going to feel like that’s what i have to do but i think people should look at all the different options and go to local meetups and talk to the people that do all the different things and figure out what works for them and what fit what their goals are and then go that avenue because there’s so many different ways like house hacking to me is the easiest you need a place to live yeah and i’d much rather own the place i live and rent out part of it we had people be like we’ve had friends that said i would never rent my basement i’m like dude you live in an apartment building with above you below you and on both sides and you have no control over that and you’re looking down on me because i rent my basement i’m like that pays for 93 percent of my living expenses and i choose who lives there yeah so there’s different ways to get into it

[20:58] but i think it really depends on how much time you have how much time you want to spend and what your goals are in the next few years yeah that’s a really good point i think it’s probably often really easy to invest where you are as well i think it’s probably a harder first step to invest in other markets typically also because you have to have a full down payment usually instead of being able to buy the house hacking style where you can be a you know three percent down or whatever yeah and live in it i think part of that too is going to be like what if you’re in a cash flow heavy market or if you’re in a more of an appreciation market where what’s that like in seattle i’m seattle salt lake city it’s definitely more of an appreciation market but we have done very well with getting cash flow as well mostly because we are buying value add and we look at properties not just like we see how we can create value basically so when we go to look at a property we’re looking okay can we add square footage can we finish a basin can we finish an attic can we is there one giant room that we could cut into two to make it another bedroom or

[22:04] so we’re always looking to see how we can add value which is why we have been able to in an appreciation market getting very good cash flow and we also bought we bought a triplex that was a legit mess lab and had a shooting outside of it oh my gosh and it had already been cleaned with all the meth at that point but that was a completely empty building that they had redone one of my favorite parts about their remodel was when they’re spraying the paint and they’re going like on the backsplash area they didn’t tape anything off so like the counter which the counter had to be replaced anyways i think they did it just for pictures but like the counter had paint spray across it the windows had paint like they literally didn’t tape anything off they just sprayed all the wall but that was like a complete gut job and an empty property and then we bought a four plex that was also completely empty we were buying properties that need a lot of work and which has allowed us to get very good cash flow in a market that right now it’s hard to find cash flow in thought lake like we’re looking at a 16 unit that’s going to cash flow less than our triplex

[23:10] but the long-term game on that will be very good but it’s a mind shift as well it’s man i’m going to buy a 16 unit that’s going to cash flow less than what my triplex is but that’s the market right now and there’s things on that property that we’re hoping to be able to do that will greatly increase cash flow if we end up getting it yeah that’s and that’s that’s the best kind of both worlds if you can find ways to cash flow in an appreciation market i think that’s ideal we’re in a more of an appreciation market as well but and so for us in our story we bought of our house that we kept as a rental and moved and that between the two properties are to our first primary and our second primary we were able to establish a good amount of equity that we were able to turn into equity lines and then start flipping houses and that kind of stuff with it but that’s definitely something to keep in mind as well if you’re starting out do you if you’re more in the cash flow kind of area maybe you just want to build up that strong cash flow and if you’re house hacking just move as soon as you can to the next one and just build up that base of cash flow and if you’re an appreciation market it might

[24:17] take a little bit more time to get that equity build up but then there’s an opportunity there so there’s really opportunities wherever you’re at yeah and we house hacked a lot like we man my first house we we still house hack i think every pro almost every property that we’ve owned with the exception of the last two that we bought we’ve house hacked sorry there’s three three we haven’t house hacked but between like my the ones my husband had he had three when i met him and we’ve done 12 deals now we’ve sold a few but we’ve house hacked all of them except for we have one in colorado that we haven’t and then we just bought a duplex and a four but but all the other properties like we were moving every year and a half but that’s what we were willing to do but that allowed us to buy properties with low money down and to keep growing as fast as we did so to get financing at less than three percent with a low down payment my first property was a first-time home buyer and it was a few thousand bucks out of pocket yeah because of the the deal that they had with the mortgage with the lenders at the time and in the first-time home

[25:22] buyer programs you can do it i think house hacking right now especially with the way things are most people i know they’re looking to buy or looking to house hack and i think that you as an agent yeah if you understand that and you can help clients figure out what they need i think there’s so many benefits that agents should learn and have in their toolbox to help their clients and i think house hacking is a big one yeah i think that you’re absolutely right and i think that there’s a lot of there’s a lot of it’s almost two different worlds the real estate sales world and the investment world and so i think the education even if you’re just like trying to get better at your job and understand investing and not even i think you should invest in real estate yourself as well but just understanding the two different you’re absolutely right do you still own your first house that you house hacked no so that one so i bought that in 2017 for 207 000 which at the time when i was buying it my husband was like this i just met him we barely knew him and i was under contract and he’s man this is really expensive for a house and i was like this is all that i can afford

[26:30] i said i don’t need a big giant house it’s just me and three three four years later in mid 2021 we sold it for 450 000 and we did a new kitchen we probably in the the four three four years that i owned it maybe 30 or 40 000 we put into it okay and that was not and it annoys me when especially people in the salt lake market when they’re like i my net worth is tripled in the last few years not because of anything you did salt lake was one of those markets that went crazy so we did not yes we did do a new kitchen we tore down a wall to open it up some but we didn’t do any like major thing to it that warranted that doubling in price we benefited solely from the crazy appreciation that salt lake had yeah so a lot of people will try and be like yeah i did so good so did everyone in salt lake salt lake would not that’s that’s one of the things i’d say about real estate though it’s like a tree it’s the best time to plant it or the best time to buy it was like 10 years ago so people complaining about interest rates now true it makes it a lot harder to make the deal work but owning the property is huge like owning the property continuing to buy property that

[27:45] makes such a big difference because i for example in 2021 when interest rates were so low one of my good friends he had 20 refinanced and because he had 20 properties if he had waited for that opportunity when the interest rates for that low to buy he wouldn’t have been able to it was just an amazing he made it all work had 20 properties accumulated then he was able to refinance like all of them and now he has an amazing portfolio that cash flows super well i don’t think we’re going to see that low of interest rate again but there’s just such benefits of owning real estate over time it appreciates like yeah and very thanks yeah there’s definitely situations where something could go bad but sure and it’s i think it’s a rarity that is a situation i think time can make almost any deal a good deal if you can hold it for long enough no i’m not talking if you buy a property that’s losing a couple thousand bucks a month you know like right we we do not buy anything that loses money but if we are to buy something stabilize it and we’re like crap we’re only making a few hundred bucks on it but if we sell it we’re going to lose money i would rather hold that property and break even

[28:53] knowing that it might be five ten years now before we can either make decent money on it or sell it and get our money back but i know i’m not going to lose money on it so i think time and market is so valuable not timing the market i know i’ve heard multiple people say that and it’s so true like just get in and buy something and obviously make sure you deal and be smart about it but in the interest rate so many people think these interest rates are so high and yes they’re higher than they’ve been but they’re still you look at historically they’re average they’re not anything right crazy and right now like i said there’s a 12 unit 15 unit that i’m looking at and we’re potentially going to be like less than seven percent for an interest rate we’re hoping somewhere in the low to mid sixes for commercial so they’re definitely to me that’s a very reasonable interest rate a year ago we were looking at a 30 something unit place and the interest rate was going to be almost 10 percent and that just was like yeah that’s not going to work but to me the interest rates now are not a reason they never were a reason to sit on the sideline because we have a fourplex that cash flows

[30:03] beautifully and that’s at eight and 8.3 something percent yeah no i agree i think taking action is the biggest thing here you just got to keep going you talked about your husband being a gc you all have both been all in on on the real estate world right you guys are both in it to win it we i talked a little bit about with you before and one of the dynamics that is true with me and erica she can’t be here today unfortunately she’s visiting her dad who had a 60th birthday she’s surprising him for that but anyway one of the things that was interesting for us is that she i was the one that was always reading about real estate i was the one that was a realtor i was the one that was active in this and pushing pushing us to get into the space i we bought her first flip when she was about to have a baby and she almost killed me and so there’s this dynamic that we have and she don’t get me wrong like we we work through every deal now and now i have a lot of trust that like if i get a text saying hey i have a house that you need to look at from a wholesale or whatever i’ll drop everything go see it and write an

[31:06] offer and she’s i trust you like it’s good we’ve had to get to that space are there any interesting dynamics with you all both being all in it because that’s different for me i don’t i think everybody’s different there’s a lot of couples that are both all in like how does that dynamic play out for you all yeah it’s it definitely can be interesting at times and it’s like any relationship you’re always going to have your points of contention on things but the fact that we both have the same end goal ultimately makes it does make it easier but i’m definitely have a lot higher risk tolerance i’m willing to take more risks on things my husband’s a little more on the conservative side but he also he i call him like the macgyver of houses like this man and this is one of the reasons that we have been able to find properties that cash flow so well because we buy these older properties that most people don’t want to touch because there’s so many unknowns with an older property where he he just sees that and he’s sweet let’s go it’s like a puzzle to him and we’ve done very well with those i want to get into larger ones that doesn’t really interest him he loves the the creative

[32:16] outlet of those smaller and he loves to build stuff like when i quit my w2 it was december of 2021 and in the beginning of 22 pretty much the first like eight months of 2022 we just like chilled did a road trip for a couple months but even when we like weren’t working and just doing whatever we wanted like almost every day he’s in the garage building something i’m like what are you doing today he just loves to work with his hands and build and create things so that’s like his outlet and that’s what he loves to do so it’s the balance of we have x amount of capital and how much do we spend on what i want to do getting into the bigger stuff and how much do we spend on the two to four units and those kind of just weird quirky properties we just looked at one up in salmon idaho this week and so it is a balance of which way do we go and we don’t look at it as one or the other it’s how do we make it work for both of us but we both know that on my side like he trusts and knows that i’m not gonna get us into something that doesn’t do well like we’re never gonna buy something that doesn’t cash flow and i know

[33:24] for him he the way his brain works like he just gets this look in his eye with a property and it’s just you got that look whatever i don’t know how you’re gonna do it but i know that it’s gonna work but it definitely can get stressful especially the fact that i’m willing to like take more risk when it comes to taking on more debt and doing cash out refinances and taking on helots and things like that and those are you talk to different investors and some investors will say never use a helot to buy stuff we’ve used multiple but it’s a risk that you have to know like it and this happened to us like our payment went from five percent to almost eleven percent yeah so it’s something that like you just have to know we had the worst timing of getting a helot right before everything went crazy and it just went nuts so it is a risk and it is something that you do have to factor in and are you comfortable with that you comfortable with your payment could potentially double or triple if interest rates go crazy like they perfectly did as soon as we got our helot and then taking on cash out refinance that you’re obviously taking on more debt to potentially use that capital to go and buy

[34:30] something like how confident are you that you’re going to be able to find something that will cover the way i look at it is that additional debt from the cash out or the helot and your debt from buying it so i’m definitely someone that will take on more risk because i’m like i know it’s going to work out i don’t know how i can’t give you a roadmap i said but i know it’s i know we’re going to make it work and we’re going to figure it out so that’s probably where we have the biggest difference is our risk tolerances and how much we’re willing to push and stick our necks out there yeah that’s definitely part of it for us too i definitely have the higher risk tolerance of the two yeah but one of the things i think that was key that you talked about is you had the same end game you have that same vision in mind and i think that’s probably maybe if anybody’s having a hard time if somebody’s trying to break into the space and their spouse is having is feeling nervous about or whatever maybe like defining what where you want to be having that end game aligned could help you take that step that could be a key

[35:34] piece yeah i think that’s just important for like business and just in life in general we read the book vivid vision and for those that haven’t read it basically it’s writing a very vivid vision four or five page very detailed description of whether it’s your business your life and we did that business in personal and i think it was a really good i don’t want to say exercise because we do try and look at that regularly at least a couple times a year ours hasn’t really changed much we still have kind of that same life that we’re working towards but it really as a couple i think it’s very good to each do it separately and then when you and then when you bring it together here’s a vivid vision for like my our personal life and then business if you’re in business together it’s interesting to see like the differences and but it gives you like to the talking points where it’s okay i’m working toward this i want this and you want this like where where do we meet in the middle on it and it just brings things to the surface that you can discuss and figure out and make sure that you’re both now on

[36:39] the same page whether that’s personally in your relationship and how you want to we did it like how we want our life to look like in five years what do we want our life to look like and i think that was a really big help for us personally and then doing it for our business as well as we know what we’re working toward and as soon as we get to that goal then we know that we can sit back and be like okay what here’s our chill point what’s the next thing that we want to do and go from there i love that i think that doing it separately so if for example if i’m the overachiever that’s not always pushing just and my wife is wanting to support me and doesn’t want to stand in my way wants to love me so i can be free which she taught me and it’s an amazing concept she she could and she doesn’t she always expresses what she wants to say or what how she feels about things but like she could at some point feel like maybe she doesn’t have a say or doesn’t have a voice and because she doesn’t want to hinder what i’m trying to do and that kind of yeah building our life together kind of thing so i love that

[37:40] because i think that you can really intentionally both work towards fulfillment in in your daily life yeah cool speaking of books do you have a favorite book that you would recommend i read a lot that’s one small section of books i like to switch between like business books and like mindset personal development type books for business books so we’re taking back our property management we self-managed for my husband almost 20 years me for about seven years and the last year we passed off to a property manager that did not work out so we’re now taking it back in-house anyone that’s looking to self-manage brandon turner’s book i think it’s called managing rental properties i should probably know i literally just reading it is awesome it’s a really good book on just how to manage apartments and not just apartments but any rental property and then i really liked the vivid vision i thought that was very good for personal and business and then the miracle morning was another one that the few takeaways from that i do now like at night i like i write down like what were three things i accomplished today and what are the

[38:51] three things i want to get done tomorrow so i like ending my day with the positive this is my accomplishment and when we first started out like it can be hard to be like hey what did i accomplish today sometimes i wrote down one thing that i accomplished today this was my accomplishment i wrote down one thing like and sometimes it can be really hard when you first start because it’s like what did i do like you because i feel like a lot of us we don’t look at things as accomplishments like i i called and got my refinance started that’s an accomplishment but we just get so this is business that’s not a like that is just day-to-day business but that’s also an accomplishment so it just got me into a good routine of ending my day with three positive things and then setting me up for tomorrow where it’s like i know when i wake up like these are the three things that i have to push so that’s been really helpful for me to get focused and be more productive on my day-to-day so yeah i love it we i’ve read uh two of the three so i’ll have to read vivid vision the renting the rental book i’m managing

[39:54] rental properties is really good and he gives you forms as well that use as a template if you’re you might want to check with your attorney to make sure that you can use it but yeah that was a really helpful book i thought that was really good too yeah and the one other one that i’ve recently read was the best ever apartment syndication book by joe fearless that one if anyone is even slightly interested in multifamily and syndication that book was awesome joe fearless is absolutely incredible he’s a super super nice guy i had the privilege of meeting him this year and spending quite a bit of time with him at the best ever conference yeah you were on stage with him weren’t you yes awesome yeah that was a lot of fun and his book is it is awesome it is so good it’s it is the best ever it is a little bit more expensive um than some books but it’s definitely worth it it’s i yeah i just finished that not too long ago too oh yeah it’s really good yeah but yeah do you practice the miracle morning then do you have do you keep that in the routine i i read that and i did for a while but i think i fall off that that man flagging of doing everything every morning yeah i i don’t have

[40:58] a very specific morning routine like i there’s days that i get up i’m someone who like i immediately get up and will either be getting like right to working out or right to work i’m i don’t need i think some people just are need more of a routine to like during time to build up to things where me i get up and i’m like let’s freaking go and so to me like i have like routine mornings but it’s not sitting and like journaling and doing a specific routine every day but i am getting up and going for hike or going to the gym or i’m getting up and getting to work and things like that but i don’t do a set routine every morning but i do try and i have which i’ve fallen off of this but i was doing really good with it for a while but i do have like daily affirmations that i would read oh yeah and that was probably the one thing that i do try and do consistently each morning because i did notice a difference yeah just like in mindset in how i look at saying reading it’s 30 seconds of reading the daily affirmations and i did notice a difference it’s like your brain it is in the way you want to go like yeah your brain doesn’t know the difference you tell you say something enough

[42:15] and you tell yourself something enough your brain doesn’t know the difference and that’s why so many athletes do visualization yeah it’s a similar thing where you’re sitting there and you if you ever watch ski racing and the ski races are at the top and they’re doing only three things they’re visualizing that course and they’re visualizing them going down and making every turn perfect because you do that enough your body doesn’t know okay did that actually happen or not so in your mind you’ve already run this course a million times and you’ve done it perfect yeah and that’s similar with the affirmations reading the affirmations and taking 30 seconds to just like visualize what do we want our life to look like what are we working toward it’s a two to three minute thing that really can change your mindset and really just help you focus in different ways and i liked his his suggestion of laminating it and putting it in your shower so you can use that time to to visualize and everything i thought that was a pretty clever yeah i should do that it’s a good time like what else are you doing yeah that’s one of my things is like where can i put this because

[43:22] like i said like i put my alarm clock like across the room and so like i get up immediately go turn my alarm off and immediately going to the bathroom brushing my teeth and either hopping in the shower or like putting gym clothes on and going for the gym or hike or whatever and it’s i’m always like shit like where do i put this so i remembered to read this and i’ve tried different places and the shower laminated put in the shower mine might be my next yeah one that i do i like that tell me if you do that and then i have a quick story about visualization too that for the athletic side of things so i was uh working really hard to get my first uh muscle up on the bar to being at the gym those are hard and i ended up over like using part of my shoulder and so i didn’t know how to stretch there’s a lot of learning that i didn’t have at that point so i just didn’t you didn’t do that kind of motion for a while and i until i learned the right stretch to get past it but anyway a long story short is i at in the meantime was watching tons of videos on instagram and seeing people’s suggestions of how to do muscle ups and then i started visualizing myself like

[44:31] what i needed to do which was really like i had to do be more stiff like i had to have my hollow arc kind of position be a little bit more stiff than i was doing in the past all that to say when i finally figure out the stretch that i needed to do that cured my problem i got on the bar and i like felt like i rocketed up into the ceiling because it went so much easier even though it had been like months of not exercising that at all not doing pull-ups not doing anything that would strengthen myself it was just visualizing and getting that mind body connection kind of thing where it away that it’s i think one of the things that i love about crossfit one of the things i love about brandon turner’s thing like and the vision all the stuff that you are talking about it’s really engineering your life to be like set yourself up to be where you want to be like you’re putting yourself in a position you’re showing up you’re surrounding yourself with people that are in the same kind of space that’s going to create the life that you want and just be intentional about how you live your life because you can really get what you want out of it you just have to show up you have to

[45:35] surround yourself with the right people and yeah track it yeah i think there’s a lot of people that feel like they they can’t do this or they can’t do that and play that sort of victim card or victim mentality and we’ve had people in our lives that always complained about a job or a partner or a family or this or that and only this different yeah there’s a different situation because it’s like we’ll get a new job oh i can’t do that we’ll break up with your boyfriend oh i can’t do that there’s people that just they don’t want to help themselves and they don’t want to do the work to get past what they may need to live a better life and for me i want to surround myself with people who are trying to make their life better and not necessarily like in real estate like some of my best friends they’re not involved in real estate but they’re still like awesome people and they’re super supportive of what we do and to me it’s just i love being around real estate people like that is definitely essential and like a core group of our friends now are a lot of people hanging out with are in the real

[46:36] estate world but i think even if you there’s some people that say never hang out with anyone that doesn’t do real estate that i don’t agree with yeah to me it’s if there’s people in your life that are bettering helping you better your life you’re helping them better their life in whatever way that is to me it’s just surrounding yourself with people who are like positive people that are looking to challenge each other looking to improve it’s that mindset and that mentality where if you’re always around people who are i can’t do this i can’t do that you’re going to be in that same mindset and it’s just going to bring you down no i completely agree that’s awesome do you have any other nuggets or tidbits that you want to share to anybody who’s looking to get into this space yeah just get involved go to local meetups i’m the vp of our utah ria which the ria is a real estate investor association and the ria is it’s a national organization and then there’s individual rias utah alone i don’t know why we have so many but we have four all within a one and a half hour space no i don’t i’d love to

[47:40] know how many other states have as many as we do but most states and big cities have a ria but even if there isn’t a ria near you there’s more than likely a real estate meetup near you and i think relationships are such a huge part of real estate and being in this world you’re can you do it on your own to a certain point you’re not going to really get super successful doing it 100 on your own like you’re going to need relationships you’re going to need people and even if you’re brand new and you have no idea like what you want to do or what avenue you want to go down just go to the meetups go and talk to people be like i am just getting started i have no idea what i want to do what do you do what do you like about it what is it that drives you to choose that area of real estate and just start talking to people and start learning the different areas and if you keep showing up and keep being present when it comes time that you have something that you want to do like people will know you and we’ll i don’t know anyone that comes to our meetings that doesn’t want to help somebody else right so if you’re showing up and there’s a couple people have in my mind that are like

[48:57] wanting to get started and they keep showing up and i tell them like dude as soon as you have something you need help with anything like you call me because they’re trying and they’re continuously putting in that effort where there’s some people that we see rarely and then they want help or they they’re frustrated that nothing has happened yet what have you been doing like consistent action to me is so important in building those relationships but i don’t know i think people underestimate the power of just building relationships and being being in the room with people doing what you want to do it’s cute you adapt you start adapting or become the fish in the pond that you’re in like you’re growing into that position that’s that’s huge that’s awesome this has been a really uh great conversation lisa thank you so much for being on today do you have anywhere that you want people to follow you if they want to reach out yeah you can go to my instagram it’s more doors with lisa m-o-o-r-e i married into a good last name may for some fun company names the more doors with leets on instagram you can also go to our website more life capital we do have a currently on there we have a free handout

[50:10] on landlord tips a few pages just on some of the tips and tricks that we’ve learned over the years we’re also working on getting up a couple other free resources one on house hacking and one on underwriting yeah i’ll definitely come in the show notes as well so click on it okay thanks so much yeah thank you thanks for listening to the wealthy investor podcast where we talk about wealth and holistic health if you enjoy our content subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to hear new episodes every thursday if you really like our content you can follow us on social media at the wealthy investor wealthy spell w-e-l-t-h-y