How Amy Terry Turned Real Estate into a Life of Wealth and Freedom

[0:00] Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matthias, an agent and investor. And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let’s do it.

[0:24] Welcome back to the Wealthy Investor, or should I say REI Agent. We are going through a rebranding, guys. As I have been working on my book and as Erica and I have been hosting this Wealthy Investor podcast, it’s been clear, A, that the Wealthy Investor might be difficult for people to share. If they say, hey, go check out the Wealthy Investor episode, somebody might type it in the correct way and not be able to find it. So also, we’re just feeling that our niche is really to cater to real estate agents a little bit more directly. We’re still going to have awesome, awesome investors, amazing investors that apply to anybody interested in real estate investing and not in the sales world. But we’re going to have a more dedicated sales portion of the podcast as well.

[1:11] So it should be very clear going forward which is which. So if you want to stay tuned for only the investing part, it’ll be clear that Fast for the Podcast is about. It’s going to be an investing-focused podcast. We’re going to relate it back to agents. But within the sales part, it’s not just going to be about how to build your business. It’s going to still be this holistic health idea. I mean, we think that the goal of real estate really should be to live a holistic, amazing life through real estate. And real estate is really just a tool to get you there. So talking to the high-producing agents, talking to the high-producing investors that are living great lives and real estate is just kind of the vehicle for them to do so.

[1:53] So I’m really excited about this change. I think it’s going to be really great. We are kicking this off with Amy Terry. Amy Terry is an agent out of Littleton, Colorado. It’s a suburb of Denver, if you’re not familiar. She is perfect for this introduction of the REI agent. She is a longtime agent that really turned her business from just being part-time, answering calls into full-time sales, into hiring, and delegating a little bit of what she… She doesn’t have to be that self-employed person that does everything and feels like they can’t hand off anything anymore. She also invests. She’s done some developments. So she’s a great person to talk to. It’s been a really good conversation. This is going to be a sales-focused podcast with a little bit of investing sprinkled in there.

[2:47] She’s even a CrossFitter. Guys, we could have talked for three hours. But without further ado, stay tuned for Amy Terry on the REI agent.

[3:00] Amy, you are a broker and an investor out of Littleton, Colorado. That’s like a suburb of Denver. Is that right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah, we’re just southwest of Denver. Do you… How far does your market reach then? I mean, Denver is a… That’s a large area. I’m imagining you could cover hours if you wanted to, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I would say realistically, I mean, I cover most of the Denver metro, which I prefer to work south. But I would say anything within like 35 minutes of Denver proper, downtown Denver. And then for us, actually, once you get to Boulder, it’s a different MLS. So once you get a little bit north of Denver, then it breaks into… And then Colorado Springs is also its own MLS.

[3:46] So those are the big kind of breaking points of Springs, Denver, and then Boulder. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I was just there in May. I got to do a little spring skiing, snowboarding. That was when I scheduled the trip. And my friend that lives out there told me that, yeah, we could probably get a snowboarding trip. And I was like, are you serious? Like, it’s May. Like, what? Yeah. Yeah. It depends on the year. Every year is a little bit different. We ended up having like six inches of snow while we were out there. So it was cool. One of the main resort we were going to go to was you couldn’t get to it because it was the overpass or whatever was closed. Yeah. No. Tell me a little bit about your brokerage.

[4:24] How long have you been a broker? Did you start as an agent? What was your path into real estate? Sure. So I actually sort of started in the business in high school. My best friends and I got jobs answering phones after school. It was back when you had to call to schedule a showing. So we just worked at the front desk and no ambitions to go into real estate. Just was kind of a good after school job. And then I left to go to college and started working at a real estate office there. Worked there all through college. Graduated planning to go to law school. Got accepted to law school and then sort of had a panic. I had interned with a DA and I just wasn’t sure if that’s what I wanted to do. So the agent that I had been working for through college, he had just started a website called cohomefinder.com.

[5:13] So he had made his first money in the dot com boom in San Francisco and then came back to Colorado. And he saw that the future of real estate was online. So long story short, he kind of encouraged me to do a year deferment on my law school, get my license and work with him. And that was almost 19 years ago. So, you know, looking back, I feel like there probably was no other path, but it took me a while to get there. And even in the beginning of my career, honestly, I felt like, you know, real estate agents don’t have the best connotation and reputation. And so for a long time, I was like, is this really like what I want to do? But my mentor and the founder of our company is one of the most successful, intelligent men I know.

[5:56] And he chose to get into this field. So it kind of changed my perspective. So I started with Remax, actually went back to the office I worked at in high school. And I was there for about five years. And then we started 8Z in 2009. So it was right after the big market crash. There was about 30 of us that started the brokerage together. And now we’re up to about 200 agents statewide. Oh, wow. So Colorado specific. Yes. And that’s where the name actually comes from. All the zip codes in Colorado start with a member. Okay. Yeah. So I don’t know if we’ll ever. We don’t at this point have any ambitions to grow outside of the state. We’re interested in growing our footprint. Like last year, we added a Buena Vista office, a Vail Valley office.

[6:41] So we’re expanding into the mountains. But we just feel like to be able to give really hyper local support, we kind of want to stay. A homegrown local brokerage. So yeah, I was an agent for, gosh, probably about eight years. And then I became a managing broker a little over 10 years ago. And then I’m a partner in the brokerage now. So I have like three hats. I’ve got my agent hat and my managing broker and then the overall brokerage owner hat. So depending on the day, I’m working on different things. And then in the mix of that, I’m also invested in real estate throughout my career. And I’ve done development projects and flipping and subdividing and kind of dabbled in all of it. There’s so much to get into here, Amy.

[7:31] Where do we start? I think one of the problems with agents often or one of the things that agents often get into is they are the classic, like self-employed person that just has to do everything themselves. Some of them are going to be perfectionistic and have a hard time letting go of the reins. And some of them are going to be just maybe more of a scarcity mindset where like they, you know, we are in this. It’s easy to get into the scarcity mindset in this business because we have, you know, dry spells. We have, if you’ve been in the business, you know, if you started in 2021, you might not have a crazy ton of dry spells. You might now if you’re still in it. But like, yeah, just having that scarcity mindset, like if I hire somebody, if I let go of the reins, it won’t be done right or I won’t be able to afford them.

[8:17] Can you talk a little bit about how you have gotten past that if you struggled with that or how you have been able to delegate and get past that classic self-employed, do everything yourself kind of mindset? Yeah. Yeah. As a total control freak, I have really struggled with it. Yeah. But I will say that once, and it is a lot of times it’s finding the right person. You know, I went through several transaction coordinators. The one I have now is, I’m not kidding when I say life changing. Okay. So I think it is, it is finding the right person, but it’s also a lot of times looking at taking your ego out of it. Like, is this about me or is this really like this person can’t do it as good as I do, or it’s going to affect your clients?

[9:01] Or is it an ego thing that like, I’m the only one that can, can do this. And for me, honestly, too, I think I would be really bored in this career if I was still doing the same daily stuff I was doing 20 years ago. So I think you have to look at it as an evolution, too. And I think it’s really important to learn every part of the business. Like we’re, as a brokerage now, we’re kind of struggling because some of our newbies don’t know how to do anything because our staff does everything for them. So we’re like, okay, do we make them maybe their first five transactions? They have to do everything just so that they understand and know the process. So that’s why I look back. I think I feel grateful that I’ve held positions and, you know, it was like admin and then an office manager.

[9:44] And then so I’ve learned all along the way. So I could do all those things, but I don’t need to anymore. So it’s tough. I think there’s value in learning it, but also letting go of it. Yeah. Well, I think a natural progression could be if you’re in the hiring position where you bring on somebody that might want to get their license, kind of like you did, that they are learning the ropes, helping you. Um, and also it doesn’t have to be full time. Were you full time right away at that point when you, when you were an assistant?

[10:15] Um, as an agent, you mean, or I guess you were part time when you’re answering phone calls and stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. When I was doing that stuff up until graduation, I was part time. And then when I got my license right out of graduation, I stayed on part time to have a consistent paycheck for a little bit. Um, but luckily pretty quickly, I would say within like five, six months, I was busy enough in just real estate that I, it didn’t make sense for me to do that. Okay. Yeah. And that’s, that’s like kind of the, one of the points I was getting at too, is like, if you’re hiring on somebody, it doesn’t have to be a full time. You don’t have to accept like a, you know, a 30, 40 K salary right off the bat.

[10:51] Um, that is obviously daunting. So, um, with. Oh, I get what you’re saying. Yeah. Yeah. On hiring a hundred percent. Yeah. Wasn’t say, I think also in my experience, there’s a lot of people that just want to learn and get repetition. So sometimes I’ve got people in the office that are happy to do stuff just to like, do it. Like, you know, um, so yeah, I definitely think, yeah, you don’t have to jump to a full time assistant. There’s a lot of ways to structure it. There’s a lot of ways you could partner with people in your office. It’s like, you guys want to share a transaction coordinator or share. I mean, we’re lucky at our brokerage. We provide that as part of being part of the brokerage, but we didn’t always.

[11:28] Um, and so that’s a more economical way. If you’re genuinely concerned about that is pairing up with people like, Hey, let’s, can we each commit to 10 hours a week? And then together we’ll hire someone part-time. Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s, that’s a really good point. And, and like, it pairs well too, if they are interested, like you’re talking about getting, learning the ropes. Um, I mean, what better way to learn how to do the business, to write contracts by like dealing with the deadlines and all that stuff in the trend, in a contract as a transaction coordinator. Um, so yeah, there’s a lot of different ways to do it and take stuff off your plate. Uh, how do you find, have you found that real estate investing has also helped you kind of feel more stable on the slow times?

[12:08] Or, I mean, you, you say you have buy and holds, you’ve done all different projects. I mean, talk about that a little bit. So investing in real estate is what has given me a lot of freedom and honestly given me the funds to go do these other projects. Like I funded my first development project with equity from property that I owned. Um, and I, I also bought my first place right away at 23 because I felt like a fraud, you know, selling real estate and I didn’t own any. So I bought a little short sale that my dad helped me fix up and a friend from college moved in and she was paying more a month than I was. And, and, and at that point I realized like how powerful real estate is, but yes, having that, um, I’m lucky now that my career is pretty consistent, but in times that it’s slower, having that rental income is very comforting.

[12:57] Um, and again, here in Colorado, we’ve also been fortunate with the massive appreciation. There’s a lot of equity there to play with, to be able to buy more properties or, um, try new projects. So, yeah, I mean, I’ve made good money as a real estate agent, but really great money as an investor. Well, and I think that like, it’s, it’s also kind of like your retirement plan, right? We don’t have, I don’t know how your company structured, but I mean, we don’t really have a 401k. And I would argue that, you know, even if you did have that option, investing in real estate is still better because you can get all the tax benefits as you go. And as a real estate professional, that’s another thing I don’t think a lot of people understand well is how many benefits you have as a real estate professional, if you own real estate as well and depreciate.

[13:39] Um, even if the forced depreciation or the bonus depreciation isn’t quite as good as it has been in the past, um, it’s still a pretty big advantage for people in our business. Um, and, and yeah, so like, what are you going to do when you retire? Um, another thing you could talk about is how, how does one retire as an agent? I mean, you know, if you build a business, typically you can sell that business. It’s a little bit harder as an agent. Um, so building up, I mean, yes, you can kind of do a referral thing with your database. Um, but building up rentals as you go and you obviously understand your market very well. Like, so, you know, when there’s a good deal, um, or where there’s opportunity.

[14:19] Yeah. I think all of those things are very accurate. I mean, that was my plan was that is my retirement plan. And then also I think it’s a huge benefit interacting with clients that you can speak from experience. Like, yes, it kind of amazes me how many people that sell real estate don’t own it or just own a primary. Um, yeah, also like we just come across great opportunities and it’s kind of shocking to me that more people don’t jump on those. So, yeah, I think, and I, you know, I teach investment classes, so I gain a lot of clients because I can speak from experience of like, here’s how to build a rental portfolio. Um, so there’s, it’s just tenfold. Like, it just makes sense to me that if you’re in real estate that you should own a lot of it.

[15:03] Well, not, you know, one of the things I got concerned about when I, uh, did some flips was like, would this negative, give me a negative view? Would people think differently about me in the market, uh, as an investor? Like, would I be competition to my investor clients? Like there’s, there’s things like that, that I was kind of worried about. But what I found was I understood and had a network of people, contractors, people that can do work. I can, I can vision a house and how it could be and help them get a budget, rough budget together just on the first walkthrough of a house. Um, so much better than I would before. And I’m adding so much more value to buyers or sellers if they’re getting their house ready for the market.

[15:41] So, I mean, it is a hundred percent everything you said. And like, it’s just, it helps you understand the, your business way better. Well, and it also, I think a big opportunity right now, especially for clients that have two or 3% interest rates. Is turning their current homes into rentals to then move up. And it’s insane to me how many agents are not having that conversation with their clients. I mean, every listing consult I walk into, I know their equity position. I’m talking about what they could rent it for. And sometimes people have no interest, but I think it’s really important to at least give them that option. Um, and yes, I’m talking myself technically out of a listing, but my goal is to help people create long-term wealth and for them to be clients for life.

[16:26] And also nothing builds trust more than explaining to them. Like this benefits you way more than it benefits me, but I think it’s what you should do. Um, so I, that’s exactly what I was going to point out is that like, that is right now we are faced with having to build trust fast. Um, maybe more so than normal. Uh, if you’re, if you’re getting people to buy, sign buyer brokerage agreements, if you haven’t met them before, if you don’t have the established connection. But that is a great example of, um, how you can just get them to trust you right away. Cause you’re like, you’re giving them advice that benefits them a hundred percent, but you are losing thousands of dollars if they take your advice.

[17:01] Yeah. And I just think it’s a shame that there aren’t, you know, I’ve always viewed myself more as a real estate consultant. And, um, I just think it’s, and, and some of it too, it’s not, it’s not any ill will. It’s just, they’re not even thinking that way. So they wouldn’t even think to come in and have that conversation with their clients. But that’s how I built the beginning of my rental portfolio was it was properties I moved into and then upgraded and kept. And, um, it was really great and easy and you get low down payment and better interest rate. And, um, so I just think those are conversations that hopefully agents should be having across the board. Yeah, no, I agree completely. And, um, the, yeah, your strategy of, I mean, if, if there’s a new agent listening, um, you know, I, I would say, if you can’t get a full-time job with somebody, um, in the real estate business, I would argue you should actually just hold your full-time job and do real estate on the side so that you can buy a couple properties along the way.

[18:02] So you can qualify for a mortgage. Um, I know that it might stunt your, your growth a little bit, but you’re probably going to have a slow couple of years anyway, to begin with, depending, um, your market, et cetera, your, your network. Um, but yeah, doing exactly what you said is like, if you, if you’re able to, you know, save up 3%, save up. 5%, whatever, 3.5%, um, and buy a property. And then as soon as you have the money saved again, buy another one. Um, you are really fast tracking yourself to, um, having much more stability with a rental portfolio, et cetera. And I, I, I use this example a lot. People are like, you know, if they’re waiting around for the interest rates to go down. Um, I have a buddy who had like 30 rentals in 2021 when interest rates were like 3% and he refinanced like all of them.

[18:47] And he chose, you know, the amortization schedule to line up exactly with his retirement goal. And, and I, and I, I asked, I asked people like, do you think he could have bought 30 rentals in 2021 and got that interest rate? No, but he was in a position that he was able to refinance all of them because interest rates came down. So in other words, don’t wait. Like you should take action. Yeah. And I agree with you with being, if you’re going to leap into real estate, be strategic about it with your income. You know, a lot of people don’t know that as an independent contractor, you’re going to need two years of good income to qualify. But I will challenge you on the idea of like, if you’re going to get into the business, I’m a big believer in like burn the boats.

[19:28] It’s not an easy industry. And I think you have to be willing to jump in like full bore if you’re really going to be successful. But I do, I do agree with you for people to be cognizant if they don’t own or they have ambitions to buy in the next year or two, like do that before you quit a W2 position, you know? Yeah. And maybe it’s a hybrid, like where, where you could, uh, you know, maybe work for a year, buy your house, um, as you’re building your business and then jump, jump in full time. Then you’ll maybe have the enough the next year. But I mean, and to your point, I think it, it depends on your personality type. Like I, when I was, when I started, I worked a job, um, in the school system for a while.

[20:09] Um, and I was really dedicated to real estate. I knew that’s what I wanted to do. I got up every morning at five, you know, to, to work on a blog, to send emails, et cetera. I was available for showings after like three every day and I had summers off. So it worked for me. Um, but I think it could be if it’s hard. I mean, this was 2014, so it wasn’t like I was, you know, it wasn’t busy. It was a slow market. Um, but yeah, I could see how people would just like, what’s the point of, why am I doing this? Why am I paying my dues? Why am I, you know, if I’m not really making any money and not really dedicated to it? Yeah. And I agree with you. I think if someone really has an end goal in mind, um, but I’ve just over the years mentoring, I’ve seen a lot of people that when it gets hard, they just go back to like, I don’t need this type of thing, but maybe, you know, maybe they wouldn’t have been successful regardless, you know?

[21:03] True. And I mean, ideally, again, if you can get in yourself into a position where you’re helping somebody else, um, if you can be their assistant, whatever, even if it’s not full time, that’s going to give you just a huge headstart and fast track yourself to success so that it’s, it’s different for everybody. A hundred percent. Um, yeah. So, I mean, so talking a little bit about, you know, having to build up trust a little bit more. I mean, obviously we’re entering in the time of the recording is like when this, uh, this whole settlement’s going into place. Yeah. Uh, and I know there’s a lot of fear in the market. There’s a lot of people, you know, changing, changing their brokerage, um, all that kind of stuff.

[21:42] What, what kind of advice would you give to people, um, in uncertain times? I know these are different than before, but there have been a lot of uncertain times in the past. Uh, what would you give advice to people about, you know, facing this kind of situation? I know it’s easier for me to say, having been in the business 20 years and, and seeing different cycles and having to reinvent myself a handful of times, but really just breathe. It’s not as scary as we think it’s going to be. I also think, uh, consumers are not nearly in the loop as we are. It’s kind of, we’re calling it inside baseball, right? Like I think majority of clients don’t really know, care, don’t really know, nor do they care exactly what’s happening.

[22:24] They want clarity on how their transaction is going to go. And I do think that’s the positive of this, but the reality is we’re really, we’re really adaptive. You know, I w I don’t know what you guys did in Virginia, but I remember in COVID, you know, very quickly we had to have a disclosure go out and everybody had to sign it before each showing. And I mean, within days we got it figured out and we had a system and we made it work and then we were doing open houses one person at a time. And, um, and also I don’t know if you were in the business when, you know, CDAs changed with lending where now everything had to be out three days before closing, right? You know, things happen and it’s a little bit of a cluster for, you know, three months to six months.

[23:05] And then we sort of figured out and we keep moving. So I, I don’t know that this is any different. I think it’s, I think it’s really a positive thing for our industry. One thing that I hate about our industry is the barrier to entry is so low. It’s one thing that as a brokerage, um, we have always, we’re always working on raising the bar and, and raising the barrier to entry and to list a home. There was always somewhat of a barrier to entry, right? You had to at least get a listing agreement signed. Um, and now we’re seeing the same thing on the buy side. You’re not going to get paid just because you opened a door. Um, and so as a full-time professional, I think that’s a great thing. I think it’s going to weed out people who can’t negotiate for themselves.

[23:45] I think it’s going to weed out people who don’t have a process. Um, but yeah, if you’re super nervous about it, you know, get clarity for yourself. We just had this conversation with our agents, like good agents understand what’s happening. Great agents can explain it. So make sure you fully understand what’s happening. Um, and also I think with clients kind of ask what they know and ask what they want to know. Um, you know, one of our agents was really vulnerable and he shared last week, he’s like, you guys, I lost a buyer because I went into so much detail and he’s like, I followed up with him and he was like, Hey man, I’m under contract. Like, you know, so I think it’s a balance right now of, of giving a lot of clarity, but also not overwhelming people with their lawsuit.

[24:30] And there’s, you know, and you have to remember most people either have never done this or they do it once every five to 10 years. They’re relying on you to know how the process goes. So I just, I wouldn’t overthink it. Not that much has actually changed. Um, and if you don’t think you’re worth what your fees are, figure that out. You know, if you don’t feel, I think that those are the agents that are really going to struggle if they feel uncomfortable asking and enforcing a fee on the buy side. And if you don’t feel that you’re providing enough value, then figure out what you need to do to, to get to that place, whether it’s more education, more experience mindset, you know, stuff you need to work on.

[25:11] Um, but yeah, I just take a breath. It’s really not, I really don’t think it’s that scary. I’m excited. I think it’s going to, um, thin the herd of people who want to do this part time and do onesie twosie deals a year. Um, which I think is good for everybody. And it’s what I’m concerned about is we already have an affordability issue, especially in Colorado. And I think where this is going to be a big problem is first time home buyers and competitive situations. And so that’s where I’ll be interested to see how this evolves in the next couple of years, because that was kind of the birth of the co-op to begin with was that buyers needed representation. And also, you know, the other piece that I always kind of remind everybody is, look, no one has ever had to hire us.

[25:58] Commissions have always been negotiable and yet more people than ever hire agents. So people want the guidance. I wouldn’t just don’t overthink it. Yeah, that’s, that is really the frustrating part for me, um, is, is the thought or the notion that, that, you know, it’s going to, that houses, houses, housing is going to be cheaper, uh, through maybe not paying a buyer’s agent, which is just, just false. I mean, like the market will dictate what the price is by how much demand there is. And, and there is too much demand and not enough supply. So like, that’s really not the case. And really, we’re just hurting the people that can’t really potentially afford to pay for representation. Um, and, and, you know, it’s already hard enough and it’s hard here.

[26:45] So I know it’s hard for you who are to, for a buyer to get a closing cost assistance. Um, so it’s just, it is, it is hard. It’s unfortunate. I’m, I’m curious to see how, how that all plays out. Uh, we are in a tertiary market, so it’s not going to be as dramatic probably for us, um, which I’m thankful for. Um, but I’m sure what we’ll be experiencing some things change and, and to go back to, to talking about, you know, knowing your worth and establishing your worth. I mean, if you have concerns, I, I think the reaction I see a lot of people doing is, is, you know, maybe moving brokerages, um, and a lot of disengagement. I think that we, um, as a broke, as a, we, we are offering a lot of education through our association.

[27:27] Um, and there’s a lot of education opportunities and a lot of things that people can do that they’re not, and they’re not really engaged. It’s kind of like, we’re like, we’ll just like back away from this a little bit. It’s not exciting. Um, but really, I think if you’re doubling down on your business now, um, when things pick up more, um, you’re going to, and, and the, the herd thins, um, you’re going to be one of the few agents that is really killing it. Um, because you’ve really established yourself in this uncertain time. And I think, you know, we started this conversation with our agents back in October. We, you know, we saw that this was coming. And so our agents have been super prepared.

[28:01] We had a three hour class yesterday and everybody’s consensus was like, let’s just like get out there. Like we’ve done so much preparation at this point. We’re just going to have to see how it actually plays out in reality and how it evolves. But, you know, really what I’m such a big believer in mindset and that’s so important and what you focus on. And so we’ve talked so much about, you know, this is going to create a lot of orphans in real estate. And I think it’s a good opportunity for us to gain a lot of market share. And so, you know, you can complain all day about the changes or you can look at the benefits of it and focus on the positive of it. And what can I do? And I do think there’s a lot of agents, unfortunately, that just kind of burying their head in the sand, pretending that it’s not happening.

[28:43] Or I’m really interested to see a lot of these independents that maybe really aren’t engaged at all of like, yeah, understanding the nuances of some of the changes. And I think the first time they don’t get paid at closing, you know, they’ll get clear on how this is going to work. So, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I think the goals behind it was positive as far as providing more clarity to consumers. But I think the execution needs a lot of improvement. And I think hopefully we’ll see that over the next couple of years as it evolves. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think we mentioned this a little bit before we got on air here, but like really focusing on what you have control over is so key.

[29:30] I think there’s, you know, a clickbaity article being posted that you can pay attention to almost every day. And that can, you know, lead you down this rabbit hole of worry or whatever. And I mean, honestly, like there was a point in my life where I think, I don’t know if I read that somewhere and I really started applying that in my life. And I stopped focusing on like politics or paying attention to it as much. And like my life is so much better. I vote and I do try to have an informed vote. But there is so much that just goes on that just is going to make you mad. It’s going to depress you. And I don’t want to have anything to do with it because I really don’t have much control. And same with this.

[30:07] Like, I mean, all I can do is provide my clients with the best service possible and know my worth. And I think that’s, you know, everything you just shared is applicable to success across the board and not just in these changes. Right. Like, and I think everyone finds their own balance. But like, I don’t, I haven’t watched the news for like 15 years and I caught myself at the beginning of COVID. I was like glued to the TV and I had to just stop. Like, it’s not that it’s almost, it’s not that I don’t care. It’s that I care too much. Like, you know, I used to watch headline news every morning and it was like, you would just walk out the door feeling sick about everything going on in the world.

[30:46] And that’s what they designed it to be. They’ve designed it to make you feel that way so that you’re addicted to it and you get more eyeballs. But yeah, and I just have this philosophy. Look, if it’s not, if it’s not something I can really affect or get involved in or change, I don’t really care to hear about it. I think we as a culture need to be better about taking care of our own tribes and our own communities and getting involved in that sense. Um, but yeah, I think with anything, one, what you focus on expands. So be really careful what you focus on and, you know, and focus on the things that you can control. Um, and there’s so much in our industry and in a transaction and with a rental property, like there’s so much you cannot control and you have to just kind of let it go and, and focus on the things that you can improve.

[31:33] A hundred percent. Um, speaking of, uh, you talked about the, your, the, the founder of your business, I kind of started with the online thing. Um, but then you’ve also talked about being kind of a hyper local, um, agent. So what, what is your, your brokerages, your personal philosophy for, uh, building your business, sustaining your business? Yeah. It’s hard for me to, to say like, don’t do internet leads because that’s how I, I mean, that was my bread and butter when I started and I’m so grateful for it. You know, I was 22, I look back now and I’m like, I can’t believe anyone trusted me with the transaction, how little I, but you don’t know what you don’t know. Um, but luckily I had good mentors around, but yeah, I did start my business pretty much strictly internet leads, which at that age was good.

[32:16] Right. Because my sphere group was just graduating college and then it wasn’t like my parents, friends trusted me at that point to do much, but long term, you have to look at those people as you’re adding them to your sphere and then really focus on growing your sphere. I mean, real estate’s a tough business anyway, but when you’re really working internet, I mean, I cried so much my first two years, you take everything so personal and people have zero loyalty and zero, not everybody, but in general, it’s very different meeting someone online versus, hey, you helped my brother and they were thrilled. A warm referral. Yes. Yeah. So it’s just, I think it’s a more successful, more sustainable and more enjoyable business to be working with your sphere group and referrals.

[33:05] And then I also do a lot of hyper local marketing. Um, I grew up where I sell, I live where I sell, our office is where I sell. And it’s frankly easier at this point, you know, when I was younger, I would kind of run all over the metro area. And now I refer it out. Um, cause when I just don’t want to be in my car all day and to it like, this is just so familiar to me. I can answer any question. I know where everything is. I feel super confident. And I think I’m providing the most value, best value for, um, for the clients. And that’s something I really appreciate with our brokerage. So our splits are based on how much real estate you’re selling. The nice thing is that if like I refer to someone in Fort Collins, we’re both going to get volume for that transaction because we really didn’t, we want to incentivize agents to put clients first.

[33:54] And like you driving two hours away to a neighborhood you don’t know is not good for anybody. Um, so we’ve kind of removed that question mark of like, well, I need it to get to the next tier or whatever. Right. So, but yeah, I mean, to answer your question, I think I get that internet leads sometimes are necessary, but they should really just be icing on the cake. And I have also watched agents. I just had an agent, unfortunately leave the business and we tracked his, his trajectory. The second he started taking Zillow leads, his personal business tanked. And now that Zillow leads have kind of dried up his business overall tanked. You know, he just, we call it the, we call it like crack. Like the internet leads there.

[34:36] You’re, you get into this mode of just waiting around for a phone call, um, and you’re not working in your business and on your business. Um, so I think it can be a huge distraction. So if you’re going to do them, be clear that it’s a temporary, hopefully. Yes. And that it’s, it’s, or it’s just icing on the cake or you’re really focused on trying to get clients in a hyper local that you work or something like that. But I don’t think it’s a enjoyable or sustainable business to work solely leads. Yeah. I think, I think you become like an answering service kind of, and, and, and like to your point, I think if you’re, if you, if you do get somebody that you’re actually be able to have a conversation with, you help them sell a house, you know, making sure that they’re in your database, making sure that you’re following up with them, uh, doing all the things that you really want to have a huge network of friends, you know, that are your past clients that, you know, maybe, or future clients that you can just kind of keep up with.

[35:30] Um, and, and so that getting those people into your sphere, uh, could involve the internet leads like you talked about, but, um, I think it just, it’s exhausting. I’ve, I’ve tried it like a couple of times. Um, and it just, I, I, it’s not for me. Well, and especially I’ve coached some of my new agents with these changes, at least in the past, if you, because what I found back in the day is a lot of people I would run out on a Sunday afternoon to show them a home and they’d be like, Oh, we have an agent, but we don’t want to bother them. And inside you’re just like, yeah. So I wasted my Sunday afternoon, but at least in the past, you had the procuring cause. Hey, I showed you this house. If you want to make an offer on this house, that is no longer.

[36:10] So I think you have to be really careful about spending your time on leads like that. Cause if they turn around and decide to put it and go into agreement with someone else, there’s not anything you can do about it. Yeah. That’s a really good point. So I, that’s where I’m curious to see the value of different internet lead sources, how, you know, how valuable they’re really going to be. You know, if those buyers aren’t willing to sign an agreement, which most people are not going to be out the gate, it’s not really, it’s not something I would want to pursue for sure. Or you’re going to have to sign some sort of agreement that doesn’t really do anything. Like it’s like, you know, non-exclusive and doesn’t have any kind of compensation to it for a week or whatever.

[36:49] And I will say, yeah, if there are people that are in that boat and they’re like, look, this is what I have. I would recommend doing an agreement for that property. Right. You know, and that’s, it’s kind of a pain to do it for one property, but it’s easy to have that conversation. Like, Hey, I understand we just met or we haven’t even met yet. But this is a requirement. And if you’re only comfortable with this specific property, I’m going to send you one that’s property specific. If you want to see something else and you can continue to do that and build a relationship, it’s not ideal. But if that’s the world that you’re in, I would say that’s probably the best kind of scenario where someone’s going to feel comfortable at least doing that.

[37:27] Well, even if somebody reaches out to you with a, with a warm lead, right? Like, I mean, so if, if you haven’t really talked to them yet, they still don’t really know you. So, I mean, that, that could be a really smart thing to do too. And if you take the extra step and, and actually call it, contact that broker and seeing what’s, if there’s any compensation being offered and just matching that in that specific brokerage agreement, specifically to that house, specific to that compensation, that could be another way of really building trust as well. And just kind of starting the, you know, easing into that conversation where you can get maybe a longer agreement signed. Um, and I actually recently, um, heard this theory about how you should kind of approach your listing agreements the same way, uh, which I’m, I’m curious your thoughts on this, but where if you go into a listing agreement and they tell you that there’s multiple agents there, they’re interviewing for this, um, just basically say, I will provide you information on your house valuation and how to get your house ready for the market.

[38:25] Once you agree to work with me, because how many times do you spin your wheels, uh, doing analysis on, you know, and, and I, I do in depth analysis. I’m very confident with my analysis. Um, and I, it takes me time and it doesn’t give me energy. So, I mean, maybe I should be outsourcing that a little bit too, but like, uh, if, if that’s taking me a lot of time and, and I’m likely not going to be getting the deal because somebody else is going to come in and say, it’s worth a hundred thousand dollars more than what I do. And which this isn’t realistic and they’re setting their expectations up super high and it’s not realistic. So have you, have you heard of that? Do you have any kind of thoughts about that kind of approach?

[39:02] I have heard of that or variations of that. And, and I get it. I mean, I’ve had situations too, where I’m giving them all my knowledge and pricing and they go do for sale by owner. Um, so it’s hard. I see the value in that. I, I don’t know how successful you’ll be as an agent doing that. Um, and unfortunately for better or worse, it’s just part of our job. You know, it’s like some buyers, you’re going to show 60 homes and some you’re going to show two and some listings you’re going to do all that work and get it. And some you are. Um, I don’t know, to me, that’s a little bit of a lack mindset and a fear-based mindset, um, of doing business, you know, you’re going to win some, you’re going to lose some.

[39:49] And I would look for me personally, I would look at if I’m not getting listings, what do I need to be doing better versus having this mentality of like, cause I, I get what you’re saying. Like what we provide is really valuable and it’s frustrating when you provide that and they take it, run with it, or they provide it to another agent. Um, right. Yeah. So, so like they could use three different agents, valuations and, and tips about getting their house ready and then ultimately run with. And so the theory that in, in this, what I read was that they’re going to, they have a favorite from the get-go that they’ve, they’ve, they’re contacting three because if they feel like it’s their due diligence to, to, to shop around, but they kind of have their pick already.

[40:32] And their theory is that you should, you should try to suss out if you are the favorite at that point. Um, and, and if you’re, if you like, if you feel like you’re not, then you just kind of bow out and it’s more of a, like, uh, you know, work, concentrate on where you’re going to actually, uh, you know, have business be, be successful. And, and for me, I’m, I’m also not ready to, to implement that fully, but I have it in the back of my head now. And I think it’s kind of like, I’m, I’m beta testing it as well. I think a happy medium, which I have heard of agents doing as you, when you meet with them, you go over all of that, you go over your marketing plan, you go over your process, you go over your pricing suggestions, but you do not leave it with them.

[41:16] And, and I think it is also kind of planting that seed of like, Hey, until we have an agreement, this is kind of my property. Um, I think there’s probably a more eloquent way to say that, but I think it’s the same. Um, I think it does demonstrate to them that like, look, there is value in all of this information and I’ll show it to you, but I’m not going to leave it with you so that you can just use it on your own. And that I feel more comfortable with. And I think, I think there’s some psychological benefits to that. I think it, it shows that you value yourself and you value your analysis and you value your marketing plan. And I think it plants a seed with the seller of like, all right, this isn’t stuff they’re just handing out to everybody.

[41:58] Um, right. I don’t know. It’s tough too. I think it depends on the personality of the client. I think some people would be super offended by that. And some people would appreciate that. It’s tough, man. Our businesses, you have to be such a kind of chameleon and, and read the room. I’m curious in that, did they have any suggestions on how you suss out if you are kind of in the lead? Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m drawing a blank now as to, as to kind of what, how you can suss out if you are the, um, it’s, this is this, and I’m blank on the name of the book right now too, but it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, Chris Voss’s art. Never split the difference. Never split the difference. It’s, it’s the next book he coauthored, um, more specific to real estate agents.

[42:40] Um, so I, I can put it in the show notes as to what book that is. Cause I’m blanking on it right now. But, um, yeah, anyway, so it was, it’s an interesting theory that I think kind of goes against the grain of, you know, I, I feel like I’m trying to do everything I can to win the listing agreement normally and hoping that I will. And, um, so it’s just kind of one of the, again, kind of beta testing in my, in the back of my head as I go through my normal processes and, and, and see. And I think something like that is, it depends on also where you are in your career, right? Like if you’re someone that you can demonstrate a lot of statistics without giving them, like if you’re like, look, I’ve sold X amount of houses in this neighborhood and I’ve gotten, you know, this percentage list to close.

[43:20] And, um, and if you really want to hire me fantastic, but I’m not going to share specifics until we’ve come to an agreement. I think that’s very different than someone who’s brand new. And, but yeah, I, I, I could see it actually working more in almost a higher end market where, um, it’s more maybe competitive or that is creative and unique and not everybody’s going to walk in with that same strategy. I don’t know. I think it’d be, that’s the thing with real estate too, is sometimes you just got to try and see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean like the, the odds are that, you know, if you, if you’re competing against three different agents and, and, you know, it may not, you might, you don’t have the perfect chance to list.

[44:00] You feel like you are like the, the favorite, right? So, I mean, you know, you could, could give it a try and see if, if it, uh, how it’s received. Um, and, and actually what I did once with the listing agreement that I was in this situation was I said, said, normally I don’t provide this information without you agreeing to work with me because it’s a big part of selling your house. Um, it’s a big part of what I do to get paid. Yeah. Big part of my expertise. Um, so, so, um, they, they didn’t feel, they, they kind of like, well, we don’t know what they’re doing, what we’re doing. We, you know, we want to make sure we have the most information about, you know, getting the most for our house, et cetera.

[44:36] Um, and, and so I did, I ended up providing the information for him. I did, did everything like I, you know, had been doing normally anyway. And they went with an agent that, that listed their house for way too much. And that, you know, and that will, that will happen. And, and I’m happy to be the second agent in the door when it sits and sits and sits. And I try to caution sellers about that of, look, I, I’ve told people this, I’ve had people where they really want to overprice. And I said, someone may walk in and tell you that they can get you that because they want the listing, but I’m not going to lie to you. And it doesn’t look good for me to have my sign in your yard for the next six months.

[45:13] If I don’t think I can reasonably meet your expectations and we’re not going to work together. Um, and yeah, I’ve definitely lost listings over that, but I’ve gotten calls later when they’re like, okay, well, I guess you were right. It’s interesting though. I might try to kind of weave this in because I typically do my listings in two steps. So I’ll do the initial meeting and, and walk through the house unless it’s, but even if I sold them the house, I probably haven’t been in it in, you know, same. I usually want to see it again. Yeah. So that is kind of an interesting idea to do that initial meeting where you kind of give your resume and walk through the house and then say, you know, if you want to move forward, then I’ll come back for a second meeting and we can go over the specific marketing plan and pricing.

[45:57] Yeah. I don’t know. It’s an interesting idea. Um, yeah. I mean, food for thought, maybe, Hey, well, let’s have a follow-up podcast in a couple of months. Yeah. I can share how we’re made it. Cause I think that is, that’s part of, um, that’s part of my frustration with our industry. And I think the, uh, perception of us is that we’re all created equal and we’re all going to bring the same thing to the table and it doesn’t matter who you hire. Um, and that’s where I hate when I get that phone call or the email, what do you charge? Is that the only, if that’s the only thing that matters, let’s not even waste our time to me because I’m not going to be the cheapest. Right. And, and, you know, yeah, you could give way more and get way more for the house.

[46:40] Um, if you’re, you’re good at your job. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it is tough. Um, and it, and it’s kind of like, you know, if you’re a lawyer and you want to, if somebody’s coming to three lawyers and asking them to give them, uh, you know, they want to have a custom lease agreement written. And they like, show me your lease agreement. Yeah. Or you don’t get free. You don’t get legal advice for free. Yeah. Uh, and then I’ll sign, I’ll sign whatever lease agreement I like the best. Um, I’ll, I’ll pay that, that, that, uh, yeah. So it’s, it’s, um, it’s an interesting, it’s an interesting thought and something again, like it’s just kind of fun to chew on as we, as we go through. Cause I, I’m not, again, I, I, I get it and I understand where the sellers are coming from.

[47:26] It’s not like I blame them for, for wanting to have multiple opinions. Um, and so. And like I said, I think, especially if they’re, I can almost promise you, you’ll be the only agent doing that. And so it at least will differentiate you. I think it’s just going to see how it depends on how it lands with the seller and their personality. You have to sell it as, you know, you know, you really, you are a professional and this information is, um, valuable. This is, this is a key strategy for selling your house. And I think that if it’s with that lens, it can make sense. Um, it’s not just being difficult. It’s just, yeah, it is, you know, that is a key. I mean, pricing is so huge. I mean, and it’s strategizing for bidding up is strategizing for having a negotiation, uh, down if, if it just depends on the house, um, and the market.

[48:17] Well, and to your initial point, it could definitely create some efficiencies. You know, if you’re not going to waste your time doing all that, unless you know you have the listing, um, focusing in on, on your, your, you know, more sure business. And, and that’s like the same to me as like chasing down a random internet lead. That’s going to leave you and use their agent that they have anyway, just, you just open the door for them. They’re going to use somebody else. It’s the same kind of thing. It’s just, you know, the listing side. Um, so yeah, just food for thought, but I do want to get a little bit of information from you about how you remain, uh, this business can be like, you know, you can get addicted to it.

[48:57] You can be a workaholic. You can have bad health. You can neglect your family. You can, all this kind of stuff is, is kind of the, some of the pitfalls of being an agent. There’s always something to do. How do you try to maintain your, you know, mental balance, your mental health, um, your physical fitness? What, what do you do? So fitness and mental health, I’ve always had a good balance, but personal life balance has not been great. I mean, um, I was single for a very long time. I don’t have kids. It was really easy for me to work way, way, way too much. I would say just in the last two years, I’m in a relationship now that he has helped me create a lot more balance. Um, and, and he brought a lot of things to my attention that, you know, when you’re single and you’re working at 11 o’clock at night, no one else points out.

[49:48] Um, so that is something too. And also I, and I don’t, I wouldn’t say that I necessarily regret that because I hustled hard and I built a really great lifestyle that I can now enjoy. Um, and so, and also kind of is what it is, right? I can’t, I can’t go back and change it now, but, um, so check in with yourself. Like, and also I think the idea of balance, um, like daily is impossible. I think at different points of your life, different things are priority. Um, so I would gauge like, what is my priority right now? And, and when and neat, and when do I need to shift that? And when am I going to shift that? Um, but yeah, fitness has, um, been a big part of my life. We talked offline that we’re both are, um, CrossFitters.

[50:33] Um, and it is, it’s the, the mental piece of it, but it’s also the only hour a day that I’m not touching my phone at all. Like I can’t even if I wanted to. Um, and then also the benefit of that, which is not why I was CrossFitting, but I’ve done a ton of business out of the gym. So it’s kind of twofold, right? It’s mental health, it’s, it’s physical health. And then it was building a lot of great relationships. Um, and then meditation and energy work and mindset have always been a really big part of my life. And so I think, um, for me, I’m not perfect every day, but I’ve got some great morning routines that, um, keep me intentional and grounded and, um, try to be aware every day of like the things that really matter.

[51:20] And, and what are the things that are, you’re letting upset you? Cause like I said, there’s so much in our business you can’t control and, you know, someone dropping the ball on something is frustrating, but you gotta move on. You know, you can’t, you can’t let it ruin your day. And it’s a, it’s a delicate balance with clients too, of letting them know that you care and you’re in it. Um, but not going through the emotions with them of how emotional the transition is. I butchered explaining this. Um, I butcher explaining that so bad when I try to explain it because I, I relate it to, uh, the subtle art of not giving an F that book. Um, I haven’t even actually read it. It’s just the headline. Cause I, I took everything so personally for a long time.

[52:04] And I, I mean, I think I was detrimenting my, I like, for example, like, I think I was pushing my clients through a transaction further than they should have been going because they were already done and I was caring too much about getting this deal done. Um, and that’s not doing any favors for them. So like letting go a little bit for your own health and being able to be objective and not being emotionally wrapped up. I mean that, and, and being calm and being able to be neutral more, like to negotiate things out and a win-win for people. I mean, that’s just, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s a huge learning curve. Yeah. And when I was, I was, I was, I was, I was thinking more like when people don’t get a house or a deal falls through or something where they’re really, really upset that you acknowledge it, meet them where they are and move on.

[52:50] But what you’re also talking about is I hate doing deals where the agent on the other side is like constantly fired up. I’m like, look, we’re, we always use the term step down transformer. Like our job is to take how our clients are feeling and still convey that, but we don’t have to be at each other. Like that’s not negotiating. I hate that too. When agents think being a bully is like negotiating. So yeah, not getting fired up about things that are happening in the transaction, just coming to a resolution, making, you know, working in the best interest of your client and making the deal work. But also, you know, for anyone that’s mentoring or managing, it took me a long time with agents to stop wanting it more than they do.

[53:35] You know, when you’re really, you feel responsible for someone’s success. And I mean, I was used to just be devastated when people, their business just didn’t take off or it didn’t work or, but over time I’ve looked at like, look, I’m giving 10 people the same resources and these six are taking it and running with it. And these four are not. And so that takes time to, to stop beating yourself up. And sometimes you do need to self-reflect. Like, what am I doing as a leader? But you have to recognize you can’t want it more than they do. And if they’re not going to put in the work, it’s just not going to, it’s not going to click. So yeah, there’s a lot of layers of separating yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

[54:18] And I think like, you know, I think again, like trying to keep a deal together, not necessarily with, you know, fighting the other agent, but like, you know, trying to figure out a way to, to resolve this issue in the home inspection. Just kind of realizing when the, sometimes it’s better when the writing’s on the wall, just to, just to, let’s just cut it early. Like, let’s not even fight it. Um, because it, it, it, have you gotten past the home inspection part, let’s say, for example, and then the client still isn’t really in it. And then they like, they, they, they, you know, they agree, they, they seem fine, everything. And then all of a sudden, like at the final walkthrough or something, they like lose it or it’s just, it’s just not worth it.

[54:58] So like, I think a learning to fire certain people that have that, those kinds of, um, wishy washy, whatever it might be, uh, kind of personalities that, that don’t really respect the contract for what it is. Um, that’s, that’s been a key thing for me too. But then just also learning to just, you know, it’s, you’re going to be able to, you know, if you’re on the listing side, you’re going to be able to get this house back on the market and sell it. There’s going to be a way. Um, and, and so I don’t know, it just, I think, I think a certain level of, of seeing the big picture and not getting caught up in the emotions of the time, no matter what, where it is, it’s just, it’s a good lesson to learn.

[55:37] Yeah. It takes experience. And kind of two thoughts on that. I think in my experience with buyers or sellers, when they’re being really difficult or unclear or wishy washy, and sometimes you’re never going to get an answer, but sometimes you need to have a tough conversation with them. Yeah. Every time it’s something else going on. They’re struggling with their marriage. They’re worried they’re going to lose their job. There’s like typically something going on that has nothing to do with the transaction. And so sometimes having that more difficult conversation of like, why? Okay. You’re telling me this is what you want. And we found the perfect property for you and you can’t articulate why not.

[56:18] Like what else is maybe going on? And a lot of times you can get people and sometimes they don’t even realize that’s what’s like holding them up. So I think sometimes having those tough conversations with your clients of like, okay, I think we either need to regroup or stop looking for now or pull your house off the market. If you’ve got someone we’ve gotten for offers and they won’t negotiate with any of them. Like, okay, do you, are you really ready to sell this house? Like what’s going on? So having those conversations and then as far as getting through a transaction, I think I get, I totally get what you’re saying of like, don’t try to force it or keep it together if people don’t want to be there.

[56:55] But sometimes I get frustrated with other agents and they’re like, oh, my client will never go for that. Well, just present it to them because you never know. And I’ve, I’ve been so shocked over the years, the things people have agreed to do or the things they’ve walked away from on both sides. You know, like either I can’t believe you walked away over a sinky, a leaky faucet or that you came down 50,000 when I thought there’s no way you would budge. So that’s the other piece. Don’t make a decision for your client or assume that you know what they’re going to do. Inside, I get so frustrated on the other side when someone immediately responds like, oh, they’re not going to do that or they’re not.

[57:32] I’m like, you have not even talked to them. Like, right. And I call my clients and I say, look, I know this is probably not something you’re willing to consider, but here’s what we have on the table. And sometimes people shock you. Like, it’s not your decision. Like. Yeah. Well, and, and, and to that point, I think really we could sum this all up with like, you are supposed, like I look at my job as being like, I’m educating my clients as best as I can for them to make the decisions. Like they, this is their choice. This is their, if they want to buy the house, they want to sell the house. They want to accept the low offer, whatever. I, my job is to help them make the best decision they possibly can, but ultimately it is their decision.

[58:10] Yeah. We’re just facilitating and guiding. And I hear that a lot when my agents call me with a scenario and they’ll be like, what would you do? I’m not doing anything. What does your client want to do? Like, I think sometimes as agents, they take that on, like, well, would you terminate? I’m not the one that’s going to make that decision. Like I, you know, you give them as much information and the way I explain it to my clients is I control the process. I control how this is going to roll. This is what I do every day, but you control every single decision along the way. And I think that’s the way I try to like to, I like to work. And I think hopefully my clients feel taken care of and like, okay, she’s got us and she’s going to pull us in when we need to make a decision, but otherwise she’s kind of running the show.

[58:53] So that’s the way I always, like, I’ve got the process and, and how things are going to roll. And then anytime there’s a decision to be made, that’s a hundred percent yours. I will give you my input. But it’s your decision. But yeah, I think as agents, sometimes we take on like, should we keep this together? Should we walk away? I’m like, it’s not your decision. It’s theirs. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think like, it’s also easier said than done when you have a lot of business. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. When you’ve got five under contracts, it’s way easier to let one fall when you haven’t had a closing in three months. Yeah. And it’s hard, but I also am a big believer that consumers and clients can feel that.

[59:28] I mean, we call it commission breath. Like if you’re desperate for a deal, it’s just not a good place to be for anybody. Yeah. And that’s, that’s, yeah, that’s where you can, like your business needs to grow to the point where you feel better doing these kinds of things, but also just kind of having that in mind will help your business grow. Cause they’re going to refer you, they, they trust you, all that kind of stuff. So, um, well, I mean, we are, we are, have so much more we can talk about. Um, I didn’t realize we had so much in common, uh, getting into this, but, um, let’s go into, uh, your favorite book. Do you have a book that has been fundamental, fundamental to you? Um, one that you recommend people read a lot or one that you just personally like, right?

[1:00:08] A lot. Yeah. So I can, I have two actually in mind. So four agreements is a book that I have read several times and I do give that to every agent that joins my team, not anything to do with real estate, but I think it’s good life advice and a good way to kind of live your life. Um, and then the actually audio book that I’m listening to for the second time right now is sell it like Sirhan. Um, and honestly, I kind of wrote, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Ryan Sirhan, but he was on million dollar listing and, um, I kind of wrote him off as this like reality star, but he’s actually started a very successful brokerage in New York. Um, and his book is really tactical ways to grow your business and how to be successful.

[1:00:53] And so it’s been, it’s been interesting. It’s, um, I’m also, we’re a big, a ninja selling brokerage. We do a lot with Larry Kendall and we’re lucky Larry Kendall lives in Colorado. So yeah, I was going to say he’s a Colorado guy. Yeah. And him and our founder are good friends. So we’ve, I’ve gotten to do a lot of trainings directly with Larry Kendall. So I also recommend ninja selling to new agents, but, um, sell it like Sirhan is kind of a modern spin on ninja selling. Um, interesting. Yeah. So that’s the one I, the most like tactical real estate one I’ve read recently. And then I will also mention when you were talking about Chris Voss, um, if anyone has a subscription to masterclass, Chris Voss has an awesome masterclass on negotiation.

[1:01:33] And it’s, it’s cool to see video because he talks a lot about body language and how to read it and how to mirror people. And, um, it felt a little like manipulative when you’re learning it. Um, but it was just good awareness of, of maybe you may be putting off messages that you’re not trying to. Um, so that’s a, that’s a cool masterclass. If, um, anyone has that subscription. Okay. Well, this has been a great conversation. Uh, again, we could probably keep going for another two hours, uh, where, if, if people wanted to reach out to you, I mean, uh, or, you know, follow you on social media, what, what are some good platforms? So I’m most active on Instagram, um, which is Amy Terry, eight Z realtor real tour.

[1:02:19] Um, and then from there I have a link tree that you can, um, set an appointment or check out my website or any of that stuff. And then also if you don’t use social media, um, just old school email, it’s just Amy Terry at eight Z.com. Okay, cool. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It’s been great. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to the REI agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week, visit REI agent.com for more content until next time. Keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.