How Christopher Stafford Built a Thriving Real Estate Business From Panama

[0:00] Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matthias, an agent and investor. And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let’s do it.

[0:23] All right. Welcome back to the REI Agent. REI Agent, Erica, you haven’t had to say it yet. So you want to practice? Yeah. Welcome back to the REI Agent. We are kind of getting used to this hat. Thank you for anybody who’s joined us from the wealthy investor. Again, this is going to be more partially focused on agents and partially focused on investors, really trying to help encourage agents to build up their investing portfolio as they go, as they build their sales business. So thank you for joining. Tuesdays are going to be agent sales specific and Thursdays are going to be more investor specific. So if you were really just in it for the investor stuff, you can still tune in on Thursdays. And if you are an agent and want to get great tips, tune in on Tuesdays.

[1:11] And if you really like the questions that I ask, you can tune in any day because I’ll be there for both. There you go. Well, we wanted to talk a little bit. We just came back from a wedding trip. We drove seven-ish hours if you just drive without stops, which never happens with kids, to Ohio. And we know we have – at what point did we introduce tablets to the kids on car trips? We didn’t do it at the beginning. No, I think it was two years ago. We bought the kids tablets. We had been maybe letting them use our own stuff every once in a while. Yeah. Or was it this last – no, it was this last Christmas. It was after Christmas. We gave them family tablets. We didn’t say it was just one person’s family tablets right after Christmas for the trip to Kansas, I think.

[2:07] Okay. Or was that two years ago? Time flies. I don’t know. It was the last year or two. And we were just talking about just kind of parenting styles. And I think there’s a lot of pressure to do everything perfect. And when you are a busy, busy, busy parent, have a lot of things going on, it can feel – it can just feel really defeating to try to get everything done perfectly. And every once in a while, you just need to give yourself some grace, I think, right? I mean – Yeah. I think sometimes tablet time or TV time has such an important part in giving either a parent a little bit of a break or creating an opportunity for dinner to be made or making a peaceful car trip happen, which was our case this last weekend.

[3:04] Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we – at home, I think the kids kind of – we don’t really call it screen time, but they get some TV time often if they have burned it. I mean, so it’s – but it’s not like they’re on their screens like 24-7. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it kind of depends. We don’t – it’s not every day usually, but sometimes, you know, like if – say like that first week of school, you know, we knew that they were burnt out and they – a lot was being demanded of them and their bodies needed to rest. Yeah. Yeah. And kids aren’t – at least our kids are not super great at recognizing that and sitting their bodies down and making themselves rest. And so TV or screen time is a really nice way to just help their bodies slow down a little bit and give their minds a little bit of a break.

[3:56] And we have talked to them too a lot or I have about how when you’re watching TV, usually your brain just sort of shuts down a little bit. It’s not actively thinking. And if you do that too much, it can kind of mess with your mood and it can make you feel sluggish and not want to do anything. And so it’s very different than say like when you’re reading a book and your mind is active and thinking and still working. And so you want to be mindful of how you feel after you end your screen time. Yeah. That’s definitely something that we’ve noticed a lot of. Yeah. It can be like a dopamine crash or something. So it’s – but it’s also – I mean, that’s just an important part of navigating the reality of our world.

[4:43] So, you know, they have to learn the balance. They have to – I mean, it’s a great opportunity to learn how – yeah, it does impact them. Yeah. Well, there’s technology everywhere. There is absolutely no way to avoid use of technology growing. It’s just unrealistic. And I think it’s helpful to help them learn when and where TV can be really helpful and effective. Because there are – you and I don’t watch a lot of TV, but we watch some. And it’s not usually in long spans of time or we actually don’t have a lot of time to do it, I guess. Right. If we get into a show, we’ll, you know, watch it and finish it. Binge. Binge watch. Sort of. Because it’s like – binge watch means like watching one episode before bed until it’s done for us.

[5:32] That’s not binge watching.

[5:36] That’s normal. But in the fall, you know, they’re used to having the TV on most weekends because we have football on. Right. It’s just in the background and it’s just, you know, noise. But I guess coming back to the point is just I think that there’s – you got to think about your own sanity as well. I mean, like you can be a better parent sometimes because you have given yourself a break, which might involve a little bit of tablets or a little bit of TV. And it’s definitely a balance. You don’t want to use it as a scapegoat to do it all the time. But also, I think the other extreme is just never letting them have anything like that. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. So, you know, what’s – it’s a toss-up.

[6:19] What’s more beneficial? Having a seven-hour car ride where there aren’t any screens and there’s a lot of bickering going on and fighting and frustration. And it’s just a negative space the whole way there. Pulling hair. Because there’s no – you can’t get space away from people you’re annoyed with. There’s very little to do. They’re very young. And so, like, do you want to end the car ride like that? Or do you use the tablets and we have a pretty peaceful ride the whole way there and we put them away once the travel is done. Yeah. And then we get there and we’re with people. We’re outside. They’re picking apples. They had a picnic. And they get to – you know, if they get frustrated once we’re there or they need some space, then they have that and they can use it and they can take it.

[7:07] But for us, yes, tablets have been super helpful on the road. Yeah. And I think it’s just something good to think about in everything you do. I think just allowing yourself a little bit of grace to – you know, if you’re a kind of person that pushes yourself so hard that you never feel adequate, you never feel like you’re doing enough and you want to really get everything perfect, everything exactly how it should be. Parenting, keeping your house clean, all that kind of stuff. I think it’s just a good reminder every once in a while to sometimes you need to just be okay with where you’re at now and that it’s better for you to be happy to function than to be perfect. Yeah. That reminds me back when we had a baby.

[7:57] I don’t remember which one. But I was feeling really overwhelmed with making sure everybody had all the things that they needed. And my dad had a really nice reframe to it and he just said, you know, did you have food on the table tonight? It doesn’t matter what kind of food it was. It doesn’t matter what it looked like. It doesn’t matter if you had the table set. Like, was there food? And it’s just so, so helpful to go back to that sometimes. Like, are our kids happy and healthy? And I was joking with a friend of ours. Don’t come after me with this. But we were talking about bathing our kids. And I was like, yeah, we tend to bathe our kids like when I can’t remember the last time we bathed them.

[8:33] And they’re like, yeah, same. And I’m like, it’s just, you know, our kids are doing great in life. And it’s all right if it’s not just exactly the way everybody thinks it needs to be done. Yeah. Lots of shame. Lots of shame in the parenting space, I think. There shouldn’t be. So, yeah. Anyway, we are, let’s segue into our guest today. Chris Stafford is a real estate coach. He’s been a listing agent for about 30 years in San Francisco. But he’s actually been able to move his business to, he lives in, he’s living in Panama right now. And he’s able to still, he hasn’t, he’s still building his business. He’s still getting sales. He’s still doing all the things that you would expect not to be possible living in Panama.

[9:25] But he’s able to do it. He’s built up systems that allow him to do what he’s best at and continue the business. And he’s also obviously doing the coaching. So, it was a really, it was a really interesting conversation because Eric and I have also been toying with the idea of living overseas for a year. And when you are in the midst of being an agent that does everything, a solopreneur, that’s how you say it, entrepreneur that feels like you have to do every single thing yourself, it seems impossible. So, it was really cool to hear a story from him or an example from him that it is possible. Yeah. And we get into a bit of his personal journey. Started out as an accountant, went through some pretty hard challenges in life and has come out feeling like he can live in a way that feels pretty free.

[10:19] He has a great sense of humor and overall just very optimistic. And I think he had mentioned that practicing gratitude is important for him. And anyway, he has a really fun story. And so, enjoy Chris.

[10:38] Today, we are fortunate enough to have Chris Stafford. Chris, thanks so much. Coming from the beautiful, sunny Panama, right? Currently? Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah. Living the dream life. So, you are an agent for over 30 years. You have a coaching program for listing agents. And you are living the dream in Panama. Tell us a little bit about your story and how you are so fortunate to be able to spend some time in Panama every year. Well, yeah. Well, I have to say that I’ve been selling real estate in Panama as a listing agent. I really don’t work with buyers. But as a listing agent since like 1927. So, it’s been a long time. Okay. No, I still have my team there. I go back to San Francisco a lot.

[11:29] But the funny thing is, is that as part of my team, I’m sort of like the rainmaker. So, I do all the marketing. I find the listings. I do Zoom listing presentations. And I realized that probably 85% of everything I was doing in San Francisco, I can do remotely. And my partner and I just decided that we wanted to live in another country, experience a different culture. I’m a lot older than you guys. So, I think I’ve got like 30 years left in me. And I just wanted to try to do something different. And Panama just sort of ticked all the boxes. And yeah, like you said, I feel like we’re living the dream. That’s cool. Is your partner also able to live like in Panama with you? Or do they have a different job that would require them to be somewhere else?

[12:13] No, actually, he is my marketing manager. So, for my coaching program, he does actually my social media manager. He does all my social media. Oh, perfect. Well, that’s great. And you guys can go wherever you want to together. Yeah. As a matter of fact, in three weeks, we are going to move to Argentina for six weeks. And we’re going to basically just focus and work from Argentina. Bring our laptops. I guess, what do they call it nowadays? Digital nomads. Yeah, that’s amazing. And that’s kudos to you because I think that one of the traps people often get in real estate sales is doing everything themselves. And I think that being trapped in the never being off, always being on, always being boots on the ground, running signs, running flyers, showing buyers houses, etc.

[13:04] is definitely something that I think, what, 99% of people probably would not have no idea how you’re doing this. That are real estate agents. Right, right. Well, the two most important words, the two most important D words in real estate is delegate and defer. And I’m really good at both. That’s amazing. I want to get to talk a lot about what you’re doing now and how that’s happening. But before we get there, can we back up to where you first started? Because I think I read that you were an accountant first, right? Yeah. Yeah. I used to work for PricewaterhouseCoopers as a CPA. Okay. Yeah. Can we go back there and just start with where you started and why you left that piece of it? I would imagine that it hasn’t always been a smooth ride going forward.

[13:54] I don’t feel like I’ve talked to anybody who said that’s the case for them. And I would just be curious to hear a little bit about what’s been hard, what you’ve come up against, what the journey’s been like. Yeah. Well, you know, it started with me graduating college. You know, I was, you know, naive. I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life, but I was really good at accounting. So I just sort of fell into being a CPA. I really did really well with it. I was with PricewaterhouseCoopers for 11 years. I made a ton of money doing it, but I hated it. I absolutely hated it. Like I literally felt like I was going home every single night crying on the inside. And so then a good friend of mine who actually sold me my first house in San Francisco told me, hey, you should go into real estate.

[14:41] And so I just did it. I just packed up and went into real estate, hired a real estate coach day one. And that was, I never looked back. I never looked back. I mean, my only regret in life is I didn’t go into real estate sooner. I should have done it way sooner. Wow. Kudos to you for listening to that, though. So there’s a lot of people that even if work is miserable, if the money is coming in, they just keep their head down and keep trucking along. Yeah. Well, you know, the key is, you know, I’ve had so many experiences in my life that just show me that, you know, life is just so short. And I can tell you, the older you get, I mean, the days just go by so fast. The years go by so fast. And then, you know, people always say, well, don’t worry about, you know, things that are going to happen in the future.

[15:30] Everything, 80%, 90% of everything you worry about in the future is going to, it’s just never going to happen. You know, it’s those random phone calls you get on a Tuesday afternoon. Like what happened to me, literally a random phone call on a Tuesday afternoon that told me that my partner had brain cancer. Oh, my goodness. And that, I know, that happened about, thank God, totally in remission now. But that happened about 12 years ago. And it was at that point that I really, oh, my God, it was just a miserable part of my life because we literally spent a year in the hospital. I drank way too much. I was just, I don’t even remember most of it. It was sort of that whole year was sort of a blackout period.

[16:12] But coming out the other side is really what propelled me to write my book called Massive Abundance, How to Create Passion, Purpose, and Prosperity in Your Life. And that’s when I totally cleaned up my act. And I decided that I had to just focus on listings. And one of the reasons I really wanted to focus on being a seller’s agent is because I felt that, number one, I can make more money. I could leverage my time more, do more business, and take more time off. Because what was really apparent to me is, again, life’s too short. I really wanted to take a lot of time off. I really wanted to spend time with my loved ones and my family and my parents who are now passed away. And I’m just, I’m so glad that I had that opportunity.

[16:55] So I work really hard when I’m in the zone, even here in Panama. I mean, I’m really super hyper-focused. But when I’m not, I mean, like I told you, we take a lot of time off just to enjoy it. Yeah. What was the turning point for you when, during that low point, when you guys were in the hospital and you’re drinking heavily, what was the turning point where you realized that something needed to change or you wanted to change?

[17:22] Well, one of the things that, you know, it’s a good question. The turning point. Probably, you know, at the time I met a woman who ultimately ended up becoming my spiritual advisor. And she’s really a kick in the pants. And she’s, I think she’s like 88 years old. She lives in Las Vegas. And she, she sort of just pointed out to me and excuse my language, but she said to me, she says, Chris, you know, we are making all this shit up anyways. Let’s make up fun stuff. And, and that just like hit me like a ton of bricks that we’re designing our businesses. We’re designing our lives. We’re designing our families. And that we have to be more conscious. We have to live consciously and really make sure that we’re making the right choices.

[18:10] And, you know, we’re all, all of us in this world are going 800 miles an hour. And, and that’s one of the reasons why I think that we’re not really appreciating what we have. We’re not really practicing gratitude. And we’re just sort of floating through life. And the next thing you know, you’re 65 years old and bam, you know. So, yeah, so I think that was, that was the one thing that, and we still have conversations about that to this day. I talked to her about twice a month. That’s cool. The way that she said that too, it really flips the lens from, I can imagine, you know, that year, it’s pretty easy to feel like all of this is happening to you. And there’s absolutely no control whether it’s going to work out or not.

[18:49] Or that your partner is going to be okay or not. But the way that she says that, it flips it back onto, you know, your, it’s up to you to decide what you do and how you handle it and the choices that you make and what you make out of this time. Absolutely. Awesome. Absolutely. I mean, it’s just really so important that we do, I mean, just really think about the decisions that we’re making and the choices that we’re making. Because it can dramatically affect either way, good or bad, what’s going to happen in your future. Yeah. That’s, kudos to you. I mean, that’s exactly what we are intentionally trying to do in our own lives and what we’re trying to preach to agents. Because I think it’s so easy to get caught up in just building more, building more, building more, or feeling scarce, having the scarcity mindset.

[19:34] You know, we don’t have any guarantees in this business. But if you don’t step back and just have that intentionality and decide, you know, life will happen to you if you don’t, you know, decide how you’re going to create it. And so that’s awesome. Yeah. There does. Yeah. If you’re not living your dream, you’re going to be living somebody else’s dream. Yeah. I’ll tell you. And the key for me is really, I have a really strong gratitude practice. I mean, you just have to be grateful. And everybody can be really super grateful. And I think, I just read a book recently that said that, you know, so much of what people tie their happiness to is the future. And, you know, if I become this, I’ll be happy.

[20:17] If I make this much money, I’ll be happy. But Dan Sullivan, who runs a really cool, I think he’s one of the most foremost coaching companies called The Strategic Coach. He wrote a book and he said that you should really reverse that. He said you should really make your happiness look at the last 5, 10, 15, 20 years of all the things you’ve accomplished. You know, and if you look at the, he calls it the reverse gap. And if you look at all the things that you’ve accomplished, small and large, get your happiness from that. And from that point, move forward. I thought that was pretty cool. That’s cool. Is that how you tend to approach it now, too?

[20:55] Well, you know, it’s interesting. Before the show, we were talking about books. And there’s a book right now that I just finished reading. As a matter of fact, I’m so impressed with this book that I actually signed up for the author’s course. And Dr. Benjamin Hardy wrote this book. And it’s called 10x is easier than 2x. And the whole premise is, the thesis is, is that, you know, if you want to 2x your business, just do the same things that you’re doing right now. Just work harder. You know, do more of it. But 10x is easier because if you’re making $100,000 and you want to make a million dollars, then whatever you’re doing right now, you have to eliminate. You have to get rid of and you have to get really creative and develop new strategies, excuse me, to make a million dollars.

[21:41] And then just focus on those one or two or three strategies to make a million dollars. And in the book, I love the fact that he says that really, you should really have, instead of having your past dictate your present, you really should have your future be pulling you from your present. I just thought that was just the paradigm shift for me. It was really, really intense. I just love that book. Can’t recommend it enough. It is still on my list. If somebody’s listened to other episodes, they’ve definitely heard me say that before. But that one and then also Who Not How from the thing I’ve wanted to work through. Because it’s, yeah, we’re kind of in that same paradigm shift. And I think that what you’ve accomplished is kind of where, not exactly the same, but removing everything off my plate into delegating and all that kind of stuff is definitely where we’re going.

[22:41] And so I do kind of want to unpack that a little bit, if you don’t mind. How do you go about some of the logistics of the sales business being remote? And yeah, so you said, you mentioned that you do Zoom, listing appointments. What other strategies do you implement to be able to, you know, be anywhere in the world to do that? Well, you know, like I said, Matthias, I really do all the marketing in my business. So I’m the one that is sort of the rainmaker. I’m actually finding the clients. So I’m really into calling my SLI, my sphere of influence. So I can do that remotely. I work expires. I can do that remotely. I also work probates. And I love the probate gain. And so, again, these are all just phone calls and Zoom calls.

[23:29] And so a lot of that stuff I can do remotely. But also, too, I have a huge referral business since I’ve been in the business since, you know, the days of Jesus and Moses. I’ve got a lot of people calling me. I just had a woman yesterday. You know, the funniest thing. Here’s the lesson for you. I don’t mean to digress. But a lot of times people think, don’t do social media and nobody’s responding to me. Or don’t call clients because they never call you back. I literally, and I’m not exaggerating, I have texted, emailed, and called this one client. I sold her a condo about 20 years ago. For 20 years, I’ve been emailing her, calling her, texting her. And not once has she ever returned my call. And out of the blue yesterday, on a Sunday afternoon, she called me and she said, Hey, Chris, this is Joanna.

[24:17] Come over and I want you to list my condo for sale. And I’m like, you never called me. I didn’t even know you were still alive. And we started laughing and we had a long conversation. She goes, well, I didn’t know I was supposed to call you. I just knew you were there. So keep calling all your SOI. Keep calling everybody, even if they don’t respond. Because there are lurkers out there. That’s what I’ve learned. That’s my new word for 2024. The lurkers are paying attention. That’s great. I mean, yeah, nurturing that sphere is so huge. And definitely one of my preferred ways of lead gen, for sure. What do you do with your buyers then? I mean, obviously some people would be also buying a house.

[24:55] Do you have boots on the ground that help with signs, all that kind of stuff that also then do buyer? Yeah. So, yeah, absolutely. So I have a buyer’s agent. I have a business partner. I have a pretty good marketing team and a secretary. So between all of them, they’re all handling buyers. I’ll sometimes maybe get on initial interview calls with buyers. But no, they handle all that for me. Okay. And how was that shift for you? Did you at one point decide that you were – I mean, you said that earlier, actually. So what did that look like when you went from just doing everything to starting to get buyer’s agents or starting to delegate? When did that happen and how did you go about that process?

[25:43] Well, you know, I started off as a listing agent. So I hired a coach back in – God, I started in 91, was it, or 92, something like that. And back then, I paid – day one, guys, I paid a real estate coach $1,000 a month, which back then still is. That’s a lot of money. Yeah. But he just dramatically cut my learning curve, and he said, get on the phone and start making cold calls. So I literally, day one, I didn’t know any better. I just started making hundreds of cold calls. So I started off as a listing agent, and then the more I worked with buyers, like you said, it’s sort of a natural progression. I just, you know, I respect and love all people and all buyers, but I hated putting them in my car.

[26:27] And I hated them, you know, driving them around and showing them all the properties. And then, you know, with the selling, as a listing agent, you’re always part of the deal. But if a buyer’s deal falls apart, you’ve got to go out and find them another property. So – Right. This was in San Francisco, right? Yeah, this is in San Francisco. Yeah, I’m still selling businesses in San Francisco. Okay. Just so I can think through, like, the ins and outs of this, when you were driving around buyers, I mean, San Francisco is huge. Were you putting miles on your car, going all over creation, looking at different places, or were you more concentrated in one specific part? Well, Erica, it’s sort of a mis-on.

[27:05] So the San Francisco Bay Area is huge. I don’t even know. It was like 8, 10 million people. But the city of San Francisco is only seven square miles. So it’s really not that far. What’s a hassle, though, is it’s very dense. And number one, parking sucks. And number two, in San Francisco, they don’t use lockboxes. So if you’re working with a buyer’s agent – I mean, if you’re a buyer’s agent, you actually have to call the listing agent to set up a private showing. The agent has to come over and let you in. So in a way, it’s compared to other parts of the country that uses lockboxes. San Francisco is sort of like a logistical nightmare. So that made it also very difficult as well, too. Yeah. And, yeah, that’s one of the shifts that I remember hearing about, the shift into lockboxes and how there’s always something that’s new and innovative that people are like, this is going to take us out of the business.

[27:58] I think showing services now are kind of in that realm. A lot of people have fear about showing time and things like that that will take agents out of the business. Do you implement showing time or something to that extent for scheduling? Don’t know.

[28:18] Somebody else gets a call. Yeah. Administratively, I have nothing to do with the business. I don’t even – if you ask me right now what forms we’re supposed to use, you know, I have no idea. I mean, I can write an offer. I can write an agency disclosure. I actually just read through the new NAR commission stuff for buyer’s brokers because I helped my buyer’s agent do that. That’s the last time I’ll read that. So, you know, I’m good at the talking to people, building rapport and all that kind of stuff. That’s one of the reasons I got a business partner and a buyer’s agent because – and that’s one of the reasons I got out of being a CPA with PricewaterhouseCoopers is I didn’t like all the detailed minutia.

[29:02] You know, I wanted to be the face-forward person that’s meeting new people and making deals and all that kind of stuff. But, no, all the paperwork kind of stuff, no clue. I like how you figured out what you’re good at and what you really like to do and you kept those things. Exactly. And you gave everything else away. Absolutely. I think that’s really so important because there’s a lot of people, especially people that I coach, that have a real hard time with delegation. I didn’t get that gene. I would delegate everything in my life if I could. But that’s a big issue for a lot of real estate agents that I think they really have to get over because, I mean, one of the things we talk about in my coaching is play to your strengths.

[29:47] I got one guy door knocking in Southern California. He is killing it, door knocking. I can’t get him to call a sphere of influence at all, you know. And then on top of it, he’s really caught up with files and going on inspections and doing all that kind of stuff. And I’m like, dude, don’t do that. You know, you need to be doing the marketing part because that’s what you’re really good at. And I’ve been working with him for a year now, and I’m just barely getting him to start, you know, using transaction coordinators, delegating things and all that stuff. So play to your strengths, man. No, that’s great. I mean, that’s definitely, I think, the trap that, I mean, not just agents, but I mean, just I think entrepreneurs in general, they just come into it with, you know, I wear all hats.

[30:32] And so somebody else is going to find energy in the things that you do not. And so find that person. Right. And your clients are probably going to get better service from it then. And you’re not going to be able to scale the business. You know, if you really want to increase your business, how are you going to do that if you’re sitting in some office doing file work or, you know, whatever? It just, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Or take more time off. You know, if you think that, you know, you only want to make $100,000 a year, you know, do it in 20 hours a week. Don’t be working on all this other stuff that causes you to work 40 hours a week. You know, do things, spend time with your family and your loved ones.

[31:13] That’s way more important than working on files in my book. Yeah. Yeah. Well, tell us more about that, about the coaching program, the Agent Unleashed, and how that works and the work you do there. Well, I think, number one, I only work with listing agents. The coaching program is called the Agent Unleashed Collective. And in the collective, I work with everybody that you have to have, here’s the kicker for me. You have to want to improve. You have to be coachable. You have to be decisive. You have to be resourceful. And bingo, you have to do the work. And the reason I bring this up is that I really try to screen people that meet those criteria, but sometimes they slip in. I mean, you’re going to pay money to me, right, to be coached by me.

[32:05] And I had a woman, beautiful, super smart woman in Chicago who just three months ago paid me my full fee up front, never got on the phone with me once. I texted her. I emailed her. I called her. And I can’t get her to work with me. And I don’t understand that. I really don’t understand it. So, number one, you have to really be motivated. You have to have some success, some experience working with sellers. But what I love about it because I’m just as, if not more passionate about the coaching as I am with helping my sellers in San Francisco because, you know, it’s like what you guys are doing. I mean, I know when you do these podcasts when you’re helping your clients, you just get this amazing feeling that I can live off of this feeling for days after I get off a coaching call.

[32:52] And so I have a real passion for helping people. But they really have to sort of go through the course. And I’ll tell you a big part of the course, which I think a lot of people really miss that we sort of touched on earlier, is the very first module of my course is all about your physical health and your mindset. And all of us as entrepreneurs, you guys probably get it. I mean, if you don’t have a great mindset and you’re not working on that constantly and you’re not working on your physical health, you’re not going to have the physical or the mental stamina to really succeed in real estate or any, you know, entrepreneurial thing. So I love really getting into the mindset and then person. Then the rest of the course is really all about really I don’t have a cookie cutter approach.

[33:35] What I love doing is I really love understanding getting to know people personally. I’m definitely not the cheapest coach out there, but I love spending the time to get to know people personally so I know how we can cater the marketing strategies specifically to them. So I understand the strengths and their weaknesses and all that so that we design marketing strategies for them to find listings. And because, you know, if you’re not going to enjoy doing something, like I said earlier, you know, let’s create a business that we’re going to have fun in and really enjoy doing. And so custom design marketing strategies for agents. So they really become a master at the things they’re really good at and they enjoy doing because then they’re going to do it consistently.

[34:15] And as you know, the money’s in the consistency. So that’s what the whole program is. We touch a lot of other areas about how to invest, how to spend your money. I think real estate agents in general are terrible with money. And so we get into that. We have a really killer mastermind group, too. But yeah, so that’s the whole group. I have a I have a blast with it. I love it. That’s cool. How many do you work with at a time?

[34:43] It varies, but I really only have time in my schedule to. And I tell people this to work with 10 people a month. So generally, I try to keep it to 10 because, again, I like to be really personally involved. I don’t, you know, pawn you off to other real estate. It’s just me doing this. So I try to keep it to 10. Exclusive coaching program. Yeah, that’s awesome. And most importantly, they have to laugh at my jokes. That’s the most important thing. Yeah. Well, any of that investing piece is another huge thing. I mean, I think another thing people agents often do is have some lifestyle creep. They want to be driving the Porsche, you know, to their first apartment because it’s an image thing and success.

[35:27] You know, if you’re not driving the Porsche, you’re not successful. So I think there’s a lot of areas. There’s a lot of pitfalls, I think. And, you know, that’s why they say what? 87% of agents failed in the first five years. But you only take on agents that are established a little bit, you’re saying. Do you have any advice for people getting started?

[35:51] Well, yeah, hire a coach. There you go. You know, they don’t necessarily have to be all that established, but it would be nice if they had a couple sellers under their belt. But if you’re just getting started and I’m joking and I’m not joking, find somebody who’s a listing agent that’s better than you. And, you know, as much as I would love people to join my program, I’m fine if they don’t join the program, but find somebody, another listing agent. One of the best pieces of advice that somebody once gave me that I keep saying and passing on is if you don’t want to pay a coach, find listing agents in other marketplaces across the country, introduce yourself and start your own mastermind group.

[36:33] I mean, there’s nothing more powerful than hanging around people. You know, it’s pretty obvious to say, Captain Obvious, that are people that are doing better than you. Because in our mastermind group, we have a lot of fun. We motivate each other. I mean, some of the ideas some of these agents give me blows my mind on how to find listings. We incent each other. And it’s probably the best thing that I would say for a brand new agent is find somebody that’s better than you and hook up and grab onto them. Yeah. Having that community is huge. I mean, no matter what stage you’re at, really. I mean, that is people that are like-minded. And I think another thing that people probably need to, especially when they’re starting, they might automatically kind of get defensive or insecure about other people’s success.

[37:20] And cultivating a mindset of like, you know, if you are in some kind of group like that, that you’re happy for them when they do have success. Because I think like, nobody wants to be helping somebody else that, you know, every time that you have a win, they’re like getting insecure and they’re making fun of you or doing something. You get that negative vibe back. You know what I mean? And I think that’s one of the beauties of real estate masterminds I’ve been a part of, investing, whatever, is that we are all kind of like cheering each other on and, you know, celebrating each other’s successes. And I think you have to cultivate that kind of mindset and not be, again, I think it’s a scarcity mindset thing, right?

[37:57] I mean, there’s enough business out there that you can succeed with other people succeeding as well. Absolutely. No, I couldn’t agree more with you, man. It’s one of the biggest traps that you alluded to earlier is, and I think really what it stems from is insecurity, is your only competition is with yourself. You know, it doesn’t matter what anybody else is doing. You’re always going to find somebody that’s prettier than you, wealthier than you, do more business than you. So you really, your only competition is yourself. And I think it comes from an insecurity standpoint where, you know, you feel like you’ve got to project this image and you’ve got, I mean, I can tell you when I was in my 30s and the 40s, I spent so much time.

[38:40] I mean, I, $5,000 suits, driving Mercedes, taking these long European vacations. I spend, I wasted an inordinate amount of time and energy on this because I wanted to prove to the outside world that I was successful. God, what a waste that was. What a, I mean, you’re never, it’s a, it’s a never ending loop of unhappiness. You’re never going to achieve the happiness or joy or whatever it is that you want in life. And it goes, dovetails right into what you’re saying. It’s like, if you can’t be happy for other people too, it’s the same kind of insecurity kind of thing. So that’s, that’s one thing I think that new agents really have to, you know, sort of deal with and get over right away. You got to focus on what value you’re providing the clients you serve.

[39:26] If you focus on that, the rest doesn’t matter near as much. And I was fortunate. We’re in a tertiary market. We’re not in a super competitive. I mean, it is, but it’s, it’s not, we’re not, people aren’t really expecting. I think if anybody shows up in a Porsche or whatever, it’s actually probably more detrimental to your business than, than it doesn’t, it kind of rubs people the wrong way and where we’re at. And, and, and one of the most successful agents in our area, when I started was driving a very, very old Honda Accord that he actually had a local technical center paint the rust or paint over the rust at one point. And he was just driving that thing into the ground. And, and, you know, I think that was, that was really nice to, to, to have as an example.

[40:11] Cause I think, you know, like if you’re going to create a life that’s so expensive that you have to maintain and then you have a slow season, which you’re going to at the beginning, especially, uh, you’re it’s, that’s where you set yourself up to fail. Um, when you’re getting started. Absolutely. One of my favorite quotes is, uh, I’ll paraphrase it by my Lou Angela. She said, nobody cares what you say. Nobody cares what you drive or what you wear or whatever. The only thing people care about is how you make them feel. And that’s one of the things I’m constantly telling my coaching clients is when you go into a listing presentation, you know, it’s really all the number one, most important thing is building the rapport, really understanding your sellers, really listening to your sellers, listening to what their insecurities are, what their fears are, what their goals are, their motivation is, um, and really listening and giving back feedback and using your own personal experiences as it relates to them.

[41:07] Uh, that is how you’re going to get listings. Nobody gives a care about anything that you’re driving or wearing and I’m number one or blah, blah, blah. That’s a really important skill. I was just going to say, cause I, I have to do that too. As a therapist, you go into a first appointment with somebody, you’re about to ask them very personal questions and you have to develop rapport real quickly in a way that they feel comfortable with you and they trust you and they feel okay. Talking about some really hard stuff, but with a listing appointment, you know, you have to go in there. You have a very short amount of time to develop a level of trust where they feel comfortable enough with you to trust you with selling their home.

[41:46] And so like that, that’s just Erica, you’ve got a huge, you got, you have a huge network of people that really need your help. They’re called realtors. Yeah. Yeah. I should change my marketing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, that’s one of the reasons that I teach in my course. One of the greatest things that I really love doing is give sellers in advance of your meeting, give sellers as much information as possible. You know, sellers are nowadays with the internet and everything, you know, you don’t need to spend four hours talking to a seller about pricing. You know, you can give so much information about your background, your pricing, your marketing, testimonials, all that kind of stuff in advance.

[42:27] So that when you actually meet with a seller in person, that’s where you can then, you can spend all your time really building that rapport, getting to know them, answering their questions and so forth. Yeah. I also had a, this is a little bit of a different stream, I guess, but when you guys were talking about community, it made me wonder how you and your partner like sense community or continue a sense of community moving to these different locations. What do you, where is your personal community around you? Like, where do you get that from? Erica, I have no community.

[43:05] I’m kidding. Well, as you can imagine, I’m sort of an outgoing kind of guy. So in Panama, unfortunately, I say, unfortunately, there are a lot of gringos in Canada, Panama. So it’s very easy to make friends here because you have a lot of expats just like you. And we tend to not like to hang out with the gringos because the whole point of me being here, I wanted to learn the culture, learn the language and, and see how, you know, see how Panamanians live. And it’s the same kind of thing going in other countries. I think you can just, even at the grocery store, you can make conversations with people and, but I’m pretty outgoing and it’s easy to, you know, find people that are, you know, attuned with you.

[43:54] That’s really cool. As a matter of fact, I just, no, oh God, no, no, there’s no way he’d even, not at all. Not at all. He, you can’t shut him up once you get to know him, but no, he’s not. But what’s cool about Panama is we’ve met so many really cool friends. I mean, we’ve got a pool on the 52nd floor and just going up there, you know, we’ve became really amazing friends with Francesco from Italy, Roman from Slovenia and their families and all that kind of stuff. And, and the key with, not that you care, but the key with Latino, with the key with Latino families and the Latino people is that you can’t, it’s, it’s almost impossible to make friends with just one person. You have to make friends with the whole family.

[44:43] Yeah. So if you, if you get the whole family on board, then you’re good. Well, Chris, one of our, one of our whys is actually to move overseas for a year. And we have three little kids, seven, the oldest and two is the youngest. And we want to give them a cross-cultural experience for a year extended, because I think, I think, you know, visiting a place is, is great. It’s fantastic, but you don’t really get immersed in the culture and understand it and, and, and go through the hard things like the culture shock that you can be, can be really defining in one’s life. Yeah. Yeah. And so yours, that’s super encouraging to hear your story about doing that. Um, essentially in Panama, we were, we were exploring the idea of Spain, um, as one of the areas that we, we wanted to, but maybe we should put Panama on the list.

[45:35] It sounds like it’s a, uh, expat friendly area. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Panama is super friendly and it’s super cool. And I was born and raised in Detroit. So it’s 85 and sunny all year long here. And I love that, but I’ll give you a big tip, huge tip. And that is a lot of countries, and this is where you can have fun doing this. A lot of countries, when you’re doing your research, look good on paper, but don’t make any decision until you actually get boots on the ground. I mean, there were so many countries. We spent a period of like five years exploring different countries that looked amazing. Like Columbia is amazing on paper. And we still love Medellin to this day. And we’d go back there a lot.

[46:12] It’s a beautiful, beautiful city. Um, but once we got there, there were certain things about it that just didn’t make sense once you’re there physically. So don’t make any decisions unless you actually go to the country. Yeah, that’s good advice. Well, we’ll book it. And come down and visit. There you go. Um, so where can, where is the best place for people to actually get more information from you if they’re interested in your coaching program? Sure. Um, have them go to my website, which is the agent unleashed.com. That’s the agent unleashed.com. Okay. We can definitely put that in the show notes. Um, and you already mentioned your, your go-to book right now, which is, uh, 10 X is better than two X.

[46:55] Um, yeah. 10 X is easier than two X, uh, by Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Absolutely. It was strongly encouraged. It is probably the most significant book that I’ve read for my business in the last five years. It’s dramatically changing what I’m doing with my coaching program and my real estate business. So, especially now that we’re coming into the season of, you know, working on our 2025 business plans. Everybody should read that book immediately. Agents listening out there. Do you hear that? You got to start doing your business plan. You got to think ahead. Don’t just focus on the fire right now. There you go. Well, well, this has been an awesome conversation, Chris. I really appreciate your time. Absolutely.

[47:39] Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Let’s, let’s stay in touch. Thanks, Chris. Thanks for listening to the REI agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week. Visit REI agent.com for more content until next time. Keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.