Building a Real Estate Empire From NYC Dreams to Hudson Valley Deals with Mackenzie Grate

[0:00] Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matthias, an agent and investor. And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let’s do it.

[0:24] Welcome back to the REI Agent. Erica, how are you doing? I’m doing okay. Are you feeling excited about what’s about to come? I think I’m feeling better than you are. Shut up.

[0:42] We have the second CrossFit Open Workout today that we’re both doing here in a little bit. And we’ve both been thinking about how we’re approaching the workout, which for me, I’m not logging my score this year officially, so it’s a little bit less pressure for me. It’s more of just a workout. But I am hoping to get a bar muscle up today. Yeah, that’d be cool. The first bar muscle up in an open workout would feel fun. So I’m hoping you do that too. That’ll get you higher in the leaderboards for sure. This open workout, we talked about the CrossFit Open a little bit in the podcast. We found out on air live that not only is our guest today, Mackenzie Great, is an agent and an investor. She’s also a CrossFitter.

[1:25] So she is like a holy trinity of… Yeah, now your new BFF, I think.

[1:33] So yeah, we were talking a little bit about it on the show, but basically the CrossFit Open is where the whole world of CrossFit will all do the same exercise and you can kind of see how you stack up against everybody. And the people that do really, really, really, really well, not me, will move on and compete at a higher level. Ultimately, they go to the Super Bowl of the CrossFit, which is like the Games. So yeah, it’s kind of fun to see how you stack up. For me, the thing that I want the most is to do better than I did the year before. And so I am in this place. This is actually the first workout that I’ll be repeating, which is kind of fun. So this was an open workout in 2022, which was my first open.

[2:22] And this isn’t the first time that they’ve brought a workout back that I had already done in an open. So yeah, looking forward to it.

[2:34] Do you think that you will do it again before Monday’s cutoff? There’s a good chance. He can repeat it if he wants to try and get a better score by Monday at what, five or eight or something? Eight, yeah, five Pacific time. So basically, the announcement for the open happens at 3 p.m. Eastern on Thursday. And then you have until 8 p.m. on Monday Eastern to submit your best score. So you could do it multiple times. One year I did it three times. Because I knew if I got past this one level, it was like you had to do six minutes and you had to finish within the six minutes to be able to move on to the next level. I was good at one of the items in the next level. So I thought that would help me greatly if I got there.

[3:26] And so I’d had to do it three times to be able to get there.

[3:31] So Mathias has been talking a lot recently about the pain cave. Pain cave. He’s been wanting to get into the pain cave. And I feel like today might get you there. Yeah, you know, I think another thing about the retesting for me is I think that’s something about the pressure. Like this is the last time you can do it.

[3:56] It gets me to go harder. If I didn’t want to retest it, the strategy probably would be to just do it on Monday. And just kind of see how, like think through it. The other thing about it is like if you haven’t done the workout before, it’s kind of hard to really think through or feel how it is and how you’re going to respond to it and to strategize. So that’s another piece to it as well. Another reason I ended up retesting. Just saying, if you ever wait until Monday to do it for the first time, I want you to go live somewhere else during the weekend. That’s true. And then you can come back home after you’re done. That’s true. Yeah, yeah, this is kind of silly. But you know what? It’s motivating.

[4:42] And every time the open is done, there’s three weeks in a row that we do these one workout. And once it’s done, then I’m like all motivated. I’m like, I’m going to be better next year. And I increase the exercises, try harder, all this stuff. And then like winter hits and like sickness happens and life happens. And it all kind of falls apart. No. Well, it is really fun, though, because it identifies, it helps you know where you are skill level wise, and it gives you kind of a baseline to go from. And then you’re right, we do get really motivated and our training gets more specific probably in what we’re trying to hit. And then like last summer, we worked really hard. And I think we made a lot of progress.

[5:27] And then, yes, like just with the life phase, we’re in school, fall, winter is really tough. But I think there’s a lot of consistency in those seasonal patterns. And it’s really fun to feel like we’re coming up on this one as opposed to what we’re coming out of. That’s a nice way to think about it.

[5:47] Thank you.

[5:51] Yeah, it’s fun. We talk about it a good amount. And I’m sorry if people are rolling their eyes, hearing us talk about CrossFit again. But it’s just a good, it’s a motivating thing. And I think what a great life hack to find something that motivates you to be healthier, to be better. We talk a little bit more, we draw some parallels between real estate investing or sales and CrossFit, just kind of getting more used to pushing through being uncomfortable, building that fortitude, mental fortitude. But yeah, we definitely believe in it. Obviously, we talk about it a lot. The other day at the gym, some guy came up to me and he introduced himself, he had, I hadn’t met him before. And he was talking about like, you know, how long have you been doing CrossFit and that kind of stuff.

[6:41] And I just kind of made jokes about having drank the Kool-Aid. And I’m, you know, I’m fully into CrossFit. And I, you know, I’m one of those people out there talking about it all the time to all their friends. And it’s like, you know, if only I was a vegan, then at least I would, then I would really, you know, be a person out there talking to everybody, trying to convert them. And he’s like, I’m a vegan.

[7:04] And I was like, oh, whoops. It’s like, well, if you then also were into crypto, and I don’t know what else. And we just, we made it fun. We made jokes. But yeah, anyway, it’s a fun thing for us, for sure. It’s a big part of our life now. And we get to go to the gym probably three to five times a week and look forward to it. Feel weird if we don’t get it. So it’s definitely, I think, a net positive.

[7:33] Before I ramble out on too much, should we just introduce the guest? Yeah. Mackenzie Great is coming out of, she’s living in New York City. But she, you’ll hear, started investing two hours away. And she is a bold person. She is willing to put herself out there and take on big goals and chase them down. And I think it’s an inspirational conversation. Did you have anything else you wanted to add? No, I don’t. Yeah, it was a good conversation. So without further ado, here’s Mackenzie Great.

[8:16] Welcome back to the REI Agent. I’m here with Mackenzie Great. Mackenzie, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Now you are perfect for the show. Often when people, I ask people if they are an investor or an agent, if they do both, what would you consider yourself more of? You’re like, I’m pretty 50-50. And I’m like, yes, thank you. So I’m excited for the conversation. Totally. Mackenzie, tell us a little bit about your journey getting started in real estate. What got you started and kind of where you started? Yeah, so I live in New York City now. I’m originally from Northern California. I moved to New York at 17. I fell into public education. I was a teacher for many years, an assistant principal.

[9:03] And it’s very difficult to buy a place here in the city. And also, you don’t make a lot of money in education. Hate to say it. So I really started to get frustrated, I would say, about maybe eight or nine years into my career and really felt honestly hopeless. And then I was just doing research. And I’ve always loved real estate. I’ve always loved homes, especially interior design and stuff. So I found bigger pockets, like a lot of people do, started listening to the podcasts. And I decided to buy my first investment property. So this was while I was a teacher. I was saving up all my money, doing overtime, that sort of thing. And I did some research because I knew I couldn’t really afford here in the city.

[9:44] So I researched the three fastest growing job markets in New York state. And two of them were way over by the Great Lakes. And I was like, yeah, that’s a little far to get to. And as a first time investor, you think you have to be near the properties. So the third one was Kingston, Kingston, New York, upstate in the Hudson Valley. And I literally had never been, but I started Googling all the houses and looking at the deals and that sort of thing. And I didn’t even own a car. I had one of my good friends drive me up. I was like, hey, do you mind like coming with me? I want to buy a property up there. And he was like, sure. You know, so we went up one day. I’d never been to this town ever. We saw maybe four or five properties.

[10:26] And we ended up going with the first one that I had eyed already. And I laugh, it’s kind of, you know, that was the golden days before like everyone really found out and interest rates went up because I wish I had bought like 50 of those then. So it was my penny property that actually turned out to be a great investment. And it really got like, once I got it up and running, it really drove me to be like, okay, this is super possible. You know, so I continued with my day job, obviously. I moved up the ranks, became an assistant principal and all of that extra money. I just kept funneling into buying more places. And I started with long-term rentals upstate because I felt that they would be like less work and easier.

[11:06] And then like most people when the pandemic hit, I was like, oh my God, you know, having this midlife crisis of like, what am I doing with my life? Like, I really want to do more of this, but like I’ve got the day job. How am I going to figure this out? And so that’s when I decided why not just go ahead and get my real estate license. That way I can be in the game more. I can still sell. At this point, I was like going up most weekends anyways to work on my places. And so I was like, okay, if I get my license, then I can sell more. I can get to know more investors, but mainly I would be able to do my own deals. And, you know, really just get a better pulse on the market. So I got my license and that was during the height of the pandemic when everyone was moving up to the Hudson Valley.

[11:48] So business was booming. Like my first year of sales, I was like, oh my God, I made almost as much as I did in my day job as an assistant principal in New York City. And this was just, you know, nights and weekends. So yeah, I just kind of stuck with that. And again, same thing. I never spent that extra money. I just funneled it right back into investments. And yeah, kept going. And then eventually about 18 months ago, I felt confident enough to leave the DOE. And I’ve been doing this full-time real estate agent, my own investment properties. And then I’ve also added a layer of, I do interior design for a lot of my clients as well. There’s a lot to unpack. Sorry. No, no, no, no. I’m loving it.

[12:33] First question I had was, how far away is this Hudson Valley area that you were driving to? Yeah, and I still am. And people think I’m crazy. It’s, you know, without traffic. If you leave at the right time, it’s two hours. If you leave at the wrong time, it could be three and a half. It depends. Did you have anybody mentoring you through this time? Or did you do this all on your own? I mean, I definitely picked up mentors along the way, but I always wanted to do this. And I don’t really know of a lot of people doing it. And in fact, a lot of my friends thought I was crazy. I mean, they still do for other reasons, but yes. But yeah, no, my broker. So I didn’t tell you about that. So when I got my license, then I started shopping around for brokerages.

[13:18] And leaving the Department of Education, I didn’t want to go into another bureaucracy. You know what I mean? So I wasn’t really looking for like a Keller Williams or a Corker. I really wanted something that was like family style. And so there’s this one brokerage upstate called the McCree Group. And I remember reaching out to all the different brokers and I had a conversation with her. And then I started to remember, oh wait, I know this woman. Where do I know her from? I went back into my bigger pockets. When I first started investing, I posted on a forum asking if anyone knew a flooring person. And she had responded and sent me some leads. Just no strings attached. I mean, like we hadn’t kept in touch since then.

[13:58] I was like, oh, that’s where I know her. I was like, oh, that’s where I know her. This was this lady who was like super generous, helping someone just with some free information. Yeah. So I set up an appointment to talk to her and we got to talking and I was just like, okay, this is definitely someone I can learn from. She started this brokerage, similar to kind of how I got into real estate sales with the idea of, I mean, it’s not just women, but creating a space for women to learn how to invest and support each other. So there’s only seven or eight of us at this point, more welcome. But all of us are investors in different ways. So it’s a group of women. We all are investors. We’re all also agents.

[14:34] And yeah, we just kind of support each other, not only in like sales, but also in whatever projects we’re working on. Wow, that’s incredible. That’s pretty amazing that you traveled so far from your home and then created your own kind of second home there in New York City. I can’t imagine. I mean, that’s a huge place. I imagine that would be kind of tough to do. Yeah, I mean, the buy-in was so expensive here. And also the other thing is the laws. I mean, they’re already strict in New York for landlords, but they’re especially strict down here in the city. So like my other thought was, okay, if I invest outside the city, not only is it a lower buy-in point, but like the laws are a little bit more favorable in case stuff were to go wrong.

[15:17] I was literally paying for tenants, which has happened. You know, this is, be real. I wanted to ask you just real quick, when you moved from Northern California over to New York City, I mean, that’s about as far away as you can get probably without like going to Europe. And I’m just curious, can you tell us a little bit about what was happening for you at that point in your life and why New York City? Yeah, so it’s a funny story. It was right after high school. I was 17, graduated. I was supposed to go to an acting school here, but really the goal was just to like get over here. You know, like I was young and I wanted to be out on my own. So as soon as my dad dropped me off, he got on a flight back to California and I went down and I unenrolled a hundred percent.

[16:05] So I was just kind of like living large, thinking I was living large at 17 in New York City, which I wasn’t, I was bored, but I was having a lot of fun. I was having a lot of fun. And I was living in this dorm for schools that didn’t have dorms. And the spring semester rolls around and they came to me and they’re like, okay, so we need to see your class schedule for you to stay here. And I was like, oh,

[16:30] and this is like before Photoshop days, you know? Oh my God, what am I going to do? At this point I hadn’t told my dad I unenrolled. So I did what you did back then and this will date me. I went and got a Village Voice. I opened it up and I was like, what’s the cheapest apartment I can find? And it was a studio in Spanish Harlem. I called it SPAHA and it was like $775 a month. And I remember I was like making like maybe $900 a month at that time. And so I applied for it and I was thinking I’m going to get away with this. This is perfect. He will never even know, no idea. And then of course they’re like, yeah, you’re going to need a guarantor for this.

[17:13] So I did, I had to call him up at that point and he agreed to sign as a guarantor. He wouldn’t help pay as long as I got back in school. So then I ended up like enrolling in the community college here and then transferring to NYU. And yeah, and when I transferred to NYU, I got a scholarship where they let you choose from like a menu of majors. And I’m going down the list and I’m like, English education, how hard can that be? These last words. And so I just kind of fell into education. And yeah, I’ve just kind of stayed here ever since. I love the city. So that’s so scheming. I love it. It was, but it wasn’t intentional at the time. Actually looking back, I’m like, wow, that was really dumb.

[17:58] I was just going to say, have you always been really bold?

[18:02] Which is so funny. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. I guess people say so, but I don’t feel like it’s bold. I feel like it’s just stupidity that I’m like, we’re already in it. Well, I mean, that’s one element of it. But then I think also obviously like going out and just getting a property after being inspired. Like I think a lot of people just get stopped, right? They just kind of get analysis paralysis. What am I doing? I don’t even have a car. How can I drive two hours to maintain the toilets and all this stuff that’s going to happen? All the problems or the tenants if I’m two hours away without a car. So I mean, like it’s, yeah, it seems like it’s something that you were good at being bold. I will say this.

[18:41] The reason why I bought that first property was because I was making enough money at the time that I knew if everything went wrong, I could carry the mortgage myself. Like, okay, yeah, that would really suck. That’s not the plan, but I won’t go into debt. You know, like I could afford this each month if I had to. And it was a super cheap property. Let’s be clear. It was nothing fancy. I always go for like the class C that you can judge up to make like a class B minus B if you’re really hopeful. Yeah. How old were you when you did that first investment property? I think I was like 31 at that time. It was 2016. Okay. Because I’m just saying I was also like out of the house at 17 and kind of on my own and I just like went into a tailspin.

[19:27] So I’m very impressed by you.

[19:32] Let’s be clear. Some days are definitely tailspin days still. Yeah, same. I wanted to go back to the broker selecting a broker bit. And I think that this is something that is really important for people to think through. There are a lot of different companies out there. I’m not going to really get into details about commission splits and all the different stuff that are being marketed. And I think there are obviously companies that are like kind of have incentives to market to join their firm. But I think what you chose, you said you wanted a family kind of environment. But honestly, you chose probably a company that had a lot of support to kind of actually make you successful. Because at the end of the day, whatever the commission split is, if you’re not selling any houses, if you’re out there by your own trying to make it work and you’re lost and you don’t get any sales, it doesn’t really matter what your split is.

[20:25] I’ll say this. It is a very unique company because we do in terms of sales kind of function individually. We’ll share our listings with each other. But we don’t have regular meetings. It’s more just like a support network really, which is why I liked it because I wanted to be able to build my own business my own way. You know what I mean? I want to be able to be my silly self on Instagram and market how I want to. I don’t want to have to copy and paste or be in the office and doing seat time for a certain amount of time. Like a lot of the things and I get, if I hadn’t come from the DOE, I probably would want more of that structure. But being in an environment for so many years, I feel like I had that discipline and idea of how to kind of manage my time and really focus on the stuff that’s going to be most productive or most important.

[21:14] So for me, it wasn’t so much needing those structures to be taught to me or put in place for me. It was more me wanting to just be me in this new career and have fun and really focus on meeting cool people and building relationships. And sometimes you can’t really do that in the same way if you’re in a certain system. So that was the appeal for me anyways. That makes sense. And then I would imagine too that if something happened, if the S hit the fan, that kind of stuff, you’d have a support system there to help talk you through all that kind of stuff, which is important. And she’s amazing about that. I will say that. I don’t know if every broker is like this, but she has 100% had my back. Sometimes you just get into situations that aren’t even your fault and it’s like, especially in this litigious society right now.

[22:02] And that was also super important to me too, to meet someone who would be loyal, have your back, even if you mess up. You know what I mean? They’re going to coach you through it and not shame you or like, yeah, those things are important. Yeah, totally. And I think that’s having an environment that is setting you up for success is more important at the beginning especially if you’re not, no matter what you need. Just figuring out what you need, understanding what you need like you did is just, I think, really critical.

[22:35] I had a thought about you were mentioning the structure. You’re right. The DOE, that career or even that job is so incredibly structured. There’s a lot of expectation there. It’s a rigorous position. I’m curious now that you have more flexibility. When you think about adding in pieces that help you feel energized and ready for the day, how do you add in movement and nutrition and sleep and friends and which of those feel like non-negotiables for you? Yeah, so I did something really crazy when I left my day job and jumped into this full time. I joined CrossFit.

[23:22] And I go to the 6 a.m. for that very reason because I was like there’s the potential for me, one, to not get out of bed, you know what I mean? Like I need to get out of bed. Two, I need to be surrounded by people who are still goal driven and inspiring so that I could carry that over into other aspects. So for me, I create loose structures for my day. I start off with CrossFit. I come home, I have a nice breakfast, which I never used to be able to do. I admit I take a nap on the days that I’m home right after for a little bit. And then I’ll like jump into all of like the follow up stuff that happens usually from like 10 a.m. to 12. And then I’ll schedule like the afternoon evenings for showings or like the stuff where you want to be out in the field.

[24:09] And then of course, you know, weekends as a realtor, like you’re always out in the field. Like that’s just happening. That’s great. You found your rhythm. Did you do the open workout this morning? I did. You did? Okay, we’re doing it at noon. So we’re like still anxious about it. We’re ready to go. So here’s my strategy. All right. So I’m still a newbie. I have been trying to get a pull up for 18 months now. Okay. And that was it. I was like, I’m Rxing this even if I only get one. Which I didn’t realize this last week or I would have done Rx, but whatever. So yeah, for 12 minutes, I failed trying to get a pull up. I got technically four, but one that I feel good about.

[24:55] A lot of, you know, flailing. That’s awesome. For people listening that don’t have any idea what we’re talking about, the open in CrossFit world is where the whole world that does CrossFit does the same workouts. And basically you can get ranked amongst the whole world and see where you stack up and then you can kind of track your progress at year over year. I actually did 22. So this is a repeat workout, right? From 2022. And that was my first open I ever did. So I’ll be repeating a workout for the first time. And yeah, excited about it. Sort of dreading it. I don’t know. What’s the right word? Anxious, dreaded, fear. Yeah. I mean, it really depends. There is always a little bit of dread. That’s every morning though.

[25:37] Because you know, you’re walking into there and you’re going to be walking out of sores. So yeah, it’s best described as like, you know, you’re like anxious. You’re dreading the workout. You do the workout and it’s really hard and you’re kind of like miserable somewhat throughout it. But then when you’re done, you’re like, that was the best hour of my day.

[25:56] It’s true. The endorphins are real and I need it. Well, you also need that in a business that involves so much rejection. You know what I mean? Like you need to have something where you’re like, okay, I can bounce back or like work through the aggression and just set the mind. Great stress relief and it’s great to strengthen the mind. Yeah, I think like to have that resilience on a day-to-day basis kind of push through barriers and kind of like be challenged in a way. I think it really does a great job for the brain. Totally. But we can talk about this for a long time. We might want to move on. It’s true. We might convert a couple of people into the cult of CrossFit. But you know, that’s maybe not the aim of this podcast.

[26:41] Although I will say I’ve gotten a ton of business from the gym. There you go. A lot of people there want to be investors or learning how to be investors or even buying their primary or interior design.

[26:56] I love too what you said about trying to get that first pull up because a lot of people I think when they hear about CrossFit they feel very intimidated that they need to be able to do all these things. And I think a lot of people don’t realize that you can do it at whatever level you are at that point. You don’t have to come in and feel like you have to do something you can’t do. Totally. And there’s like parallels between that and investing. I think like a lot of people hear it and they’re like, oh my God, I can’t get a whole building. Like how would I ever be able to buy an apartment building? Well, you don’t have to start there. You know what I mean? You can start at all different places.

[27:30] You don’t even have to start by buying a residential property. You could buy a commercial space. You could buy, I mean, there’s so many different categories that it’s not one size fits all. Absolutely. And I think whenever you’re pushing yourself out of your comfort zone a little bit, that’s probably a good thing. You know, like if you’re just feeling comfortable and stable, you’re not growing. I’m not saying that you always have to be uncomfortable and miserable or whatever, but I think that if that’s a step that you’re fearful of for investing in CrossFit, whatever, getting your real estate license, jumping into that space, just yeah, it’s good to challenge yourself. It’s good to feel uncomfortable.

[28:08] And you get back and you never regret it. Like even if let’s just say a property goes wrong, and I have one right now that’s going very wrong, you still don’t regret it. You’re like, okay, I learned a lot. I will not do that again. I will, I have a story now to help other people too. You know, like if things go wrong, here’s how I’m handling it sort of a thing. So someone told me last week, you can’t make a wrong decision, period, point blank. You can’t in life. Everything is adaptable. Everything is fixable. Everything is changeable. Just make a decision and keep going. And then after that, make another decision. You’ll figure it out. Yeah, it really takes the pressure off when you take failure off the table.

[28:48] No matter which way this goes, you’re gonna learn something and you’re gonna know something you didn’t before. Totally. And I wanna go back quickly to what you said too about getting business from your gym. I think that is definitely something that people should very, very strongly consider. It doesn’t have to be CrossFit. I think if you get into a class-like environment with an in the gym, like so that could be Orange Theory, that could be a lot of different things, right? Zumba, I don’t care. You’re gonna become bonded with the people you’re working out with. You’re gonna have a similar routine. You’re gonna be the same people showing up. You’re gonna have this like tribe. And that is, yeah, a great source for business.

[29:25] And there’s not much else. I think that, you know, you can get into other things like business groups and other stuff. But you don’t get bonded to people like you do if you’re, you know, dying next to them. It would probably be good to do for that. 100%. And like, I feel like when it’s athletic, it’s anyone who’s there is goal-oriented or driven or ambitious in some way. They naturally have that, maybe not naturally, but it’s in them already that they wanna do better for themselves. And that then carries over into other aspects of life that I think is a little bit different if you’re, I don’t know, doing a painting class with someone. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that same thing. I think that’s very true.

[30:05] And then there’s also the monetary like limit or barrier. Like, I think like, you know, these classes aren’t necessarily cheap. So there is like kind of like a baseline of people often that can’t afford to do exercise classes. It’s kind of a luxury for, you know, a lot of people. So I think there’s also that element. They’re more likely to be able to afford a home or investment. Mm-hmm, totally. I’m sorry, do it.

[30:33] Okay, so let’s get into, we talked about you getting into the long-term rentals and getting your license. And you mentioned that you have Airbnbs as well. Let’s get into that a little bit. Yeah, so I was probably what, 22? I wanna say that I was showing a house to a client and she was looking to flip something and we found this really cute cottage. She liked it and she’s like, you know, if I was doing an Airbnb, I would absolutely purchase this, but I’m looking for a flip. This just isn’t right for what I’m looking to do. And I said, okay, no problem. We go to leave the property and I use the restroom real quick and I look out the window and there’s stairs up the back of the house. And I was like, do you mind if we like just go around and check out the back?

[31:14] We go around the back and it turns out there’s this whole other attic space with a separate entry. And at this time, I didn’t have a place that I could really stay at when I was up in the Hudson Valley. Like I was either crashing with friends or I was crashing in my properties that were construction sites, literally bringing my air mattress, blowing it up and sleeping in construction sites because I would just be like, you know, going overnight on a Saturday, doing my work and then coming back to the city. So when I saw this, I thought, oh my gosh, I could buy this place. I could make the upstairs for me, a place that I can sleep at when I’m here and I could Airbnb out the downstairs. So I turned around and I was like, and she’s a good friend now.

[31:55] I was like, would you mind if I bought this place? And she’s like, no, go for it, Mackenzie. Definitely. So I put in an offer and, you know, like any good deal, there’s going to be hurdles to jump through. This hurdle was the seller was crazy.

[32:13] She’s insane. No ifs, ands, or what’s around. And it was like, so it took a long time to close the deal, but I ended up getting it. And then we started, not we, I started renovating it and I ended up not making the upstairs a spot that I could sleep. And I ended up like knocking out the ceiling and making it like a giant space. But that’s really what got me into the Airbnb game. I had always sworn that I wasn’t going to do it. It was too much hassle, too much, you know, but I had a blast designing it. And then when I started renting it out, I was like, oh, this is making a lot more money than my long-term rentals. It is a lot more management, 100%. There’s a lot more moving parts, but I was like, maybe I should do a couple more of these.

[32:58] You know, like this is really going to speed up my goal of getting out of my day job. So that’s when I started to dabble in the Airbnb space. Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah, we were creating a midterm at the moment and that will be our first. I’ve helped a lot of clients with them, but I haven’t actually bought. And honestly, for a while, we have a resort close to us. Our city or town does not allow them inside the limits. But the resort area going through the COVID time, I was like, you know, if there was one that I could flip and create into an Airbnb, I would be considering it. But otherwise, I feel like these prices are going crazy and there’s a lot of extra demand and I don’t know how that’s going to shake out.

[33:38] So far, it hasn’t been honestly as bad as I expected, but have you noticed any kind of shifts in your, I mean, you said 2022. So we had probably kind of already seen some of the inflated, like, so I think a lot of people bought based on numbers before there was a boom of people creating new ones and all that kind of stuff. Did you see any change in numbers? Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because upstate, all the towns are different. Some of them are outlawing it entirely. There is a overall housing shortage. So a lot of the local towns are viewing Airbnbs as the main problem to that. We know that it’s a number of factors. It’s a component, but there’s a lot more to it than just that. So certain towns like really are embracing it.

[34:21] Other towns are not. Some towns are outlawing it entirely. Some towns are like adding in permit restrictions. I do see a lot of people selling off their Airbnbs, but a lot of those are people who bought and put too much money into it. Or now that it’s kind of like four or five years after the pandemic, a lot of people are just tired of hosting. Like that’s something that’s not really spoken about the business component. They think, oh, I’m just going to buy this house. I’m going to be able to use it when I want to. Well, not really. Like your prime time are vacation and weekends. So those are when you would want to use it, and usually you want to book it because that’s where you get most of your money.

[35:00] But also I think the, and maybe I’m going to go into a taboo subject here, but I think that the caliber of guests and a lot of the things that Airbnb specifically, but maybe some of the other platforms are doing, are making it harder and harder for hosts, set aside the purchasing of the property, but to manage it in a way that is going to be profitable and consistent. One thing you always hear about is Airbnb and how they have that, what is it? The insurance, I’m forgetting the name of it right now, but the insurance in case someone causes damage. I can tell you right now, I’ve had some damage and it hasn’t been covered for that insurance. Even though you submit all the claims and videos and timestamps and stuff, there’s just a lot to it that I think people can get burnt out on as well.

[35:48] So I’m seeing some houses now flipping in that regard of like people are just tired of managing it and tired of dealing with that, so they’re selling them off.

[35:58] Honestly, the towns that have a set plan in place for Airbnbs, like whether it’s a permitting process or something, those tend to have higher property values than the other places because people are still willing to go up and spend a little bit more money to buy an Airbnb. Whereas the towns that have gotten rid of it entirely, a lot of the property values have dropped in those places. So it’s kind of a double-edged sword. Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, definitely. The resort area was probably the slowest market in our county before the pandemic and then it became the hottest. So property values went through the roof for them. So very good for the owners there, your point. And I do recommend to anyone who is buying an Airbnb, and maybe this is just because I’m a little partial to it, you kind of want to fix the wrapper.

[36:52] That’s where you’re going to make your money. You’re going to buy something that needs some work, you’re going to put in the work, you’re going to force the equity. But with that comes the classic challenge of finding that contractor. That contractor is not only going to show up consistently but is going to do good work. And tradespeople definitely are harder and harder to find. There’s just less of them out there, you know, so they can charge more and more. So again, you just have to find that really right property and have that network in place. But I think that’s where you can still make a profitable Airbnb is if you buy a fixer upper, you put in the work, you design it smartly, you manage it well.

[37:30] But buying something that’s at market rate right now, it’s pretty difficult. Yeah, no, you’re totally right. And I think one of the awesome benefits of being an investor and an agent is that you can really start filling up a contractor’s business. Like you can really be a significant employer of that contractor and that gives you benefits. So if you give them a good amount, a few jobs a year that are bigger, and then also they’ll be more happy to jump on smaller jobs, like, you know, get a house ready for the market, whatever. So it’s a benefit for sure. And an advantage, I think that people that aren’t doing kind of both worlds don’t have. I mean, if you’re a hardcore investor, you might have a go-to person, like that’s probably doable.

[38:15] But if you’re an agent that doesn’t invest, it’s gonna be a little bit harder to have enough business to give a contractor that they’re gonna kind of be willing to bend over backwards to help you out, to get things done quickly. So that’s a plus for sure. And I definitely believe in that connection process, right? Like everything is connected. You definitely want to send business to anyone and everyone that you know that has integrity and is a good person. So like my referral list at this point for my lawyers top-notch, you know what I mean? Like for the lenders that I recommend, top-notch. Like I’m 100% confident in those. And definitely I have some contractors that I really would recommend.

[38:52] It’s just the problem is they’re all booked. The good ones, you know, they book up quick. But you continue to build that network. You continue to connect people. Even if it doesn’t, at that moment, you feel like benefit you. It’s just like bringing people together. The more you do that, the more successful all aspects of your business are. Totally. Yeah. Mackenzie, I have more of a detailed question for you with the Airbnbs. After you designed those, how did you figure out, how to stock your kitchen? Like what to put in there? Did you find a resource out there with a list of what’s helpful? Or how did you figure that part out? Yeah, I mean, there’s definitely a ton of checklists. But honestly, I have to think about my ideal renter and the property.

[39:36] So like my cottage, it’s cute, but it doesn’t have a massive kitchen. And I don’t want someone who’s coming in and cooking Thanksgiving meals there, to be honest. Like the more cooking, the crazier the cooking, the more wear and tear. Like this is a property that is like designed for one or two people, a couple coming for a weekend, or maybe someone who’s working from home for a week. So they need the basics, but there’s not going to be, I don’t know, a cake mixer in there. So I try and scale it according to the goals. Whereas I think if you have a bigger property with like six or seven bedrooms, which I don’t personally invest in those, you’re going to need a really well-stocked kitchen. So I definitely tried to provide the basics.

[40:17] I also don’t try to get carried away with stuff because you kind of see the back end. Sometimes it’s like no good deed goes unpunished. You know, people who leave like wine for their guests. That sounds great in theory, but that is a liability waiting to happen. And to be honest, I’ve never seen guests really like take those little things into consideration, be like, oh, these thoughtful details and give a five-star review. If anything, I see sometimes when you do those sorts of things, then they appreciate the whole experience a little bit less. They start to like expect these things. So it is a tough balance, but I absolutely have like the important things. A hundred percent, I want you to be comfortable.

[40:58] But things that are luxuries, like my wood-burning stove, if you want firewood, you’ve got to bring firewood. I’ll tell you where to get it. I’ll tell you how much it is, but I’m not going to be restocking that regularly. You know, that’s something that, and especially like in the middle of summer, you don’t need that in the house, you know? So I don’t know. You just kind of take it into consideration based on who’s renting it, what your goals are, and then also maintaining the property. Like if there’s certain things that you need, like I don’t want people to leave the place a mess. Ideally, they would leave it cleaner for my cleaner. But if I’m not providing a vacuum sitting there, they’re not even going to attempt to do that.

[41:33] You know what I mean? Or paper towels are crucial because they’re going to, I want them to clean up if they can. If I’m not providing enough of those, then they’re not going to do that, you know? So you just kind of take into consideration what’s important for your goals. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder, you know, like especially for you, Mackenzie, as you’re talking, as you’re explaining all of this to us and to our guests, do you ever hear yourself saying all of these things that you’ve learned and that, you know, essentially starting from scratch and now you just know so much?

[42:06] Yeah, I also am blessed again because I work with so many investors. So I do meetups as well. I have my clients come together and we’ll meet at like a pub and we’ll just kind of talk shop. So I think I have learned a lot from my own experiences, but I’ve also learned a ton from my clients’ experiences and my friends’ experiences. And I try to pass those same stories on to new clients as they sign on with me because I want them to know that for me, it’s never about the sale. Like honestly, the sale’s great. I appreciate money, but that’s a one-time check. For me, it’s about building the relationship. And my clients become my friends, you know what I mean? Like I don’t want to steer my friends wrong.

[42:46] So we try and share as much information as possible. I have like this list too of a whole bunch of hosts where like, you know, say something goes wrong at your place, the hot water heater goes out and at the last minute you need to relocate. The first thing I do, I go to the list and they all have the list too so they can reach out to each other for support. I mean, I remember Christmas this past year, it’s kind of warmed my heart. Two of my clients, different clients, were spending Christmas together and they like met through me and they were like hanging out. I was like, oh, that’s what I want, you know? And I’m like, I love it, you know?

[43:23] That’s really awesome. I was going to ask too and this kind of relates is what other benefits do you see kind of doing both being 50-50 and the investing in the sales side? Like how does that like synergy happen between the two for you? I mean, I see it as all connected, you know? Like the more that I sell, the more that I learn, the more people that I meet, the more people that I can help because that’s the other component too, you know? Like I have a lot of friends who are still in the DOE, still teachers who feel very hopeless or in my generation I’m an older millennial cusper if you will and a lot of them are like feeling like they can’t get, you know, financial security and I’m not saying that I’m 100% set, definitely not but I’m at a place where I was able to leave my day job and I’m from the same generation.

[44:15] I’m not, you know, I don’t have a large family. I definitely don’t come from money. So my goal is like really empower everyone that I meet whether they’re clients, whether they’re other agents that I’m working with, whether they’re just friends to know that this is a way that you can become financially independent and not to get on the soap box here and maybe I’ll regret saying this later but I also think this myth that everything is so expensive really angers me because I think that is a strategy to prevent people from buying into owning their properties and I really feel like as a country more people need to own for us to be in a better place and a lot of the corporations are intentionally buying up these properties or sending the message that the average person can’t afford it and I’m not saying it’s easy, like the first one definitely takes sacrifice, second, third, fourth, whatever.

[45:06] It does, it takes sacrifice but you’re playing the long game with the tortoise and the hare, you’re the tortoise, you know what I mean? And you need to be that. You need to look out for yourself in a way because what’s gonna keep happening if people believe that they can’t buy or don’t have access to this, giant corporations are gonna continue to buy up all of this. They’re gonna continue to charge rent because you are paying for the house that you live in or the apartment that you live in no matter what. Whether you recognize it or not you may not be buying it for yourself but you’re certainly paying for it. So for me it’s bigger than just sales or friends although my clients are definitely my friends.

[45:47] It’s a bigger thing about like as a country we need to get back to feeling empowered and doing the tough things that are going to take care of us later because the better I can take care of myself the better I can take care of all the people that I love around me and that’s, I went on a tangent. No, that’s inspirational. I really appreciate you saying all that because I agree completely and I think that every time another perspective thing that I like to come back to when I’m talking to people about how I feel like almost everybody whenever they buy a house they feel like they overpay at any period. If you look at perspective when they go circle back like to 50 years ago your grandparents were buying a house they’re probably squabbling over $20 and like almost walked away from the deal.

[46:38] 100% everyone always looks back it’s like oh well they bought back then it was so easy. No, they had to overcome the same fears that you are doing now. It’s the same struggle different time but same same. Same overall some of the variables are going to be different but you’re still going to have you still probably had that feeling back then or people probably still had that feeling and it’s just good to know that

[47:01] owning real estate over time is such a powerful thing. So getting that resolve getting that like A I can do it like you said like not feeling defeated and hopeless and then B getting that like determination like which you did right and I forget what year it was now but like yeah you determined that you were going to do this and you’re going to find something and you went with a friend two hours away to be able to make it happen. I mean that’s determination and I think that it’s possible and people yeah need to believe that to start right. And can I also say there’s one other myth out there that I feel like is really maybe it was always this way but I feel like I see it a lot now is people feel like the house has to be perfect.

[47:46] House does not have to be perfect there is no perfect house. I can tell you this even brand new builds have issues you know what I mean like this idea of well I want to buy a home but it needs this this and this guess what you might have to live in a smaller space to get started. You might not have the best location like it’s just about getting on the property ladder and getting the ball rolling because not everyone and most people I would argue don’t buy their forever home or their dream home the first time around. It wouldn’t even make sense to you know what I mean like you have different stages in your life that you need different things. So that is something that holds a lot of people back and maybe more my generation where they’re like so used to growing up in a certain type of house or a certain type of lifestyle that’s like you’re gonna have to downsize a little bit to upsize down the line.

[48:34] That’s that’s part of the process as well. I’ve definitely met people that that want to start with their forever home and you know it’s just time and real estate affords so much and you know even if you’re just sitting in a house for a few years to get the appreciation higher and then be able to sell that to get your dream home or a more forever home and that’s a solid strategy I love using that first house as a rental in the future as well being able to move into a house and get those lower down payment kind of programs. House hacking if you can get if you’re if you’re willing to do that have some friends live with you. I think if I could go back in time I would have done that now that I know what I know.

[49:19] Right right well I think I had wanted to do something like that when we first got married or around that time when we were buying and I got vetoed. Well yeah that was also back when I like felt very very attached to I had a bank account it was a savings account that had two cents in it and I remember when we merged our accounts when we got married the banker was like why do you have this and I was like it just makes me feel better.

[49:47] It took me a little bit to like let go and to be fair like I mean we were trying to find like a duplex or something we might have been able to afford and there’s not a ton of them around so it probably wouldn’t have made sense but we still own our first house that we bought. Yeah sorry I just have to say it was funny that I didn’t feel comfortable like with the duplex just getting married but we ended up having our my parents live with us for six months so it wasn’t like we were alone you know. Right right right.

[50:18] We were house hacking. Yeah there you go.

[50:23] Hey well this has been a really fun conversation I do want to ask about your favorite book or one that you’re currently reading or one you think that’s foundational for people that everybody should read at some point if they’re interested in getting this space. Yeah so I thought about this earlier The Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes. It’s an interesting book where she kind of talks about just one year she decided to change everything and put herself out there more. That was the main focus of it. It wasn’t just saying yes to opportunities but it was like I’m going to go do this and put myself in spaces around people that I’m getting invitations to but I haven’t always felt comfortable and I think that is kind of how I’m trying to live my life now because it’s being an entrepreneur is a whole different world you know what I mean.

[51:07] Like you’re entering into situations where I have to put myself in new spaces and meet new people and it’s not easy but it’s super important and I will say you do feel energized after you do that. You know similar to CrossFit. Like you go into a class you think you’re not going to survive when you see that wad and then you’re like wait a minute I did. So yeah I would definitely recommend that book. It was very interesting. Also because when she wrote it it was at a time when she outside externally looked very successful. You know so people are assuming that she has just got it going on but she felt very differently inside and I can definitely relate to that as well on my journey at this point.

[51:49] So she I just when you said that I remembered I think she was on a podcast talking about this year and I want to say it was the armchair expert but I’m not sure if that’s what it was or not. But she was just talking about how she’s like a extreme introvert that she does not really like to be forward-facing or public-facing but she’s her writing is so famous that she it was like this big mismatch for her. But anyway going through this year was like life-changing for her. Yeah definitely. And I think a lot of people who are out there are introverts and you have to kind of mask that a little bit for our society. Like I definitely feel I mean I wouldn’t say I’m a total introvert but I definitely feel like I’m more on the spectrum than most people would realize if the definition is where you derive your energy from.

[52:37] Like I definitely need my downtime to reset.

[52:43] Yeah I think there’s a lot of a lot of faking it a little bit that happens in the for example I think there’s often the differentiation between sales agents that are they’re either a personality agent or they’re a systems agent. And I think that often if you are stronger in one area than the other you’re kind of like also trying to fake the other or compensate for it a little bit. And so I think in the same regard like yeah if you are feeling naturally really introverted getting yourself to show up to these social things is definitely one way you can do that. And in the inverse you know making yourself sit down to answer emails and do systems.

[53:30] But yeah anyway where’s the place that people could reach out to you if they were interested in maybe buying a house in the New York area? Or where would they find you? So the best way to get me is on Instagram at Mac of All Trades NY for New York. And there’s a link there to my real estate the McCree Group is the brokerage that I work with. There’s also a link to my interior design business so that’s moatinteriordesigns.com which is for Mac of All Trades. And yeah I’m down to help in any way possible whether it’s you just want to talk through some ideas the potential of investing you want to talk through some design ideas whatever you need you name it and reach out. I love it. Yeah thanks so much for being on here.

[54:15] Yeah thank you Mackenzie. So nice to meet y’all. Thanks for listening to the REI Agent. If you enjoyed this episode hit subscribe to catch new shows every week. Visit REIAgent.com for more content. Until next time keep building the life you want. All content in this show is not investment advice or mental health therapy it is intended for entertainment purposes only.