From Police Calls to Profit Calls That Flipped Fear Into Real Estate Fortune with Lyle Spann

[0:00] Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matthias, an agent and investor. And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let’s do it.

[0:24] Welcome back to the REI Agent. I guess we can do one more CrossFit related intro. Maybe I could try to tie it in a little better. But I just did the final open workout at the time of recording. And I was really disappointed in how it did. So last Friday, I did this. So again, three open workouts that you kind of compare yourself to the rest of the world in CrossFit. These CrossFit workouts are designed to be something that most people could do at least a little bit of, even if they’re brand new, to all the way weeding out like the top athletes in the sport. You know, people that are dedicating their entire lives to training, all that kind of stuff. And so they’re hard. They’re really hard. And I, you know, the first two went well overall.

[1:16] I was good with them. The first one I redid. The second one I may have redone. I did it on a Friday. And then I ended up getting a fever on Saturday and kind of was battling some sort of cold sickness and then allergies on top of it all week. And I went in this past Friday to do the third one. And I just quit in the middle because it just felt like I couldn’t do a decent enough time. I felt like I was still kind of sick. So I was like, what’s the point of going through this whole thing if it’s just going to be bleh? So I saved it, tried to rest up all weekend and then redo it on Monday. You kind of have until 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time to get it done. I did it this morning and it was terrible.

[2:06] And I, you know, I logged my score and I saw what my percentile was. So basically you get ranked amongst everybody in the world. So to put a little perspective, in 2023, I got a 66 percentile of in the whole world for men. So like 66, I was in the top 66 percent or 34 percent, whatever you want to say. So there’s 66 percent people are worse than me, if that makes sense. And, you know, I was happy with that. That was great. Then last year, I actually ended up having COVID like a week or two before the Open started. And I definitely felt like I was not myself, even though I didn’t have COVID anymore. But I definitely felt like I just couldn’t perform like I did before. And so I ended up getting like 58 percent or something like that that year.

[3:02] So never fun to go backwards. That’s the main thing that I’m looking at. The main reason I do this, I record this in the whole, you know, in the official CrossFit platform is to see how I’m progressing. And the goal is to do better every year, right? I’m also getting old. So maybe I need to start having a come to Jesus moment and realize that maybe, you know, just being fit and staying healthy is the main goal here. All right. So I was hoping to do better than 2023 this year just to kind of prove that I’ve continued to progress. And then even though I had kind of like a sickness in 2024, that I’ve still kind of maintained some kind of progress. So I got 68 percentile for both the first and second workout.

[3:52] And then when I logged my score, I guess it didn’t update right away, but it showed me being at 56 percent for the third one. And that’s overall. And I was so mad. I was like, this is, I quit CrossFit. I’m done. This is ridiculous. I can’t be less than the year before, like, you know, with the COVID year or whatever. Even though, you know, this workout definitely, I think, was impacted by me being sick and having allergies and all that stuff. But it’s just really, really frustrating. If you’re not a CrossFitter, it’s maybe hard to understand. But like, you know, you work all year hoping you’re going to get a little bit better at all these different things and that you perform a little bit better in the open.

[4:34] So all that to say is it did end up updating and got me to the 69th percentile, which I think, you know, by the time everybody’s recorded their scores, it’ll go down. I don’t know how much further down, but I’m hoping I’ll still be in the 60s at least. I was really hoping to be in the 70th percentile overall. So I probably would have had to score like 75 percent or something on this last workout. But I blew it. I bombed it. It would have been great to have this workout on Friday all the way through if I felt, you know, okay. And then get a good sense for it and then really, you know, hopefully get back on Monday and do it again to be a little bit better. But it’s a brutal one. If anybody’s in the CrossFit world, it’s really hard.

[5:20] But I think, you know, it’s just one of those things that if I’m going to tie it into the rest of the life and perspective and all that, it’s something that you need to just have perspective on. Like, you know, I’m comparing myself to people that do CrossFit. If I was comparing myself to the rest of the world, the whole population in general, you know, I might be in the 95th percentile or higher. And so like it’s just, you know, it’s all relative. And if you focus on, I mean, you know, I guess I’m fairly competitive. I think I have a lot of drive in me to, you know, achieve big things. Like I don’t feel like I’m a jerk to other people if they beat me or anything like that. It’s not like that kind of competition.

[6:02] But I feel like I have a lot of drive to kind of be the best I can be. Maybe that’s the best way to describe it. But, you know, it’s so these kind of things are harder for me to kind of get past. And I need to, you know, keep that perspective and understand that, you know, there’s I do so many other things in my life than train CrossFit. And all those other things are just as important, right? You know, I want to have time with my family. I want to build my sales business further. I want to build my sales team. I want to write my book. I want to invest more in real estate. And I shoot, I’m in a band now too. I want to be able to perform. One of the goals there is to perform a concert in the summer at some point, a couple months.

[6:46] And, you know, all those things are important to me. And I, you know, have to realize that it’s going to be a balance. It’s not going to be… If you really want to become the 100% best at something, you’re going to have to pretty much devote all your time to that one thing. And I don’t think I want that in anything. I don’t want to be the richest person in the world. I don’t want that kind of life. So, you know, it’s all about perspective. And this has been, you know, a nice little therapy moment for me. I wish Erica was here to kind of help me process this a little bit more. I’m sure she’ll listen to this and give me feedback after this. But, yeah, I think that’s the overall moral of the story.

[7:26] The lesson I wanted to give now is just to kind of keep perspective in your life and realize, be thankful for what you have. There’s almost always somebody underneath you that is looking up at you and being like, I wish I was there. And that’s kind of a weird way to say it. But basically, if there’s somebody just starting CrossFit, looking at my scores, they’re going to be like, I wish I could one day get there. That’d be amazing. And then same with me, the people that are like, you know, a lot further along than me in the gym, I’m looking at their scores and be like, oh, man, that’s amazing. I wish I could be there. But they’re looking at people ahead of them. They’re beating themselves up.

[8:07] So, it’s just one of those things that you’ve got to, you know, have perspective on life and just really appreciate where you’re at. Appreciate your abilities. Appreciate your health. Appreciate your family. Focus on gratitude. Without further ado, we’re going to interview Lyle Spann today. Lyle is an investor out of the Nashville, Central Tennessee area. He does a lot of house flipping. It was a really good conversation. Really interesting to hear the way he processes things and how he kind of got started. But there’s some really good nuggets in there if you are an agent thinking about investing or just an investor. An agent that wants to understand investors better. We get into some of that as well.

[8:56] So, without further ado, here’s Lyle.

[9:02] Welcome back to the REI agent. I am here with Lyle Spann. Lyle, thanks so much for joining us today. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Chanted to be here. Yeah. Lyle, so you and your wife are investors. Tell us a little bit about how you got started in this journey of real estate. Yeah, absolutely. I never, ever imagined being involved in real estate or investing. So, it kind of fell on my lap. You know, to make a long story short here, I worked at W2 for a long time in the corporate world. And a buddy of mine who was moving to Middle Tennessee from Atlanta, flip houses in the Atlanta market. And he was dating a girl up here and was wanting to move here, get engaged, and kind of get his feet wet in the Middle Tennessee market.

[9:44] I’m right outside of Nashville, Tennessee. Okay. So, he hit me up about looking for someone to go look at houses for them, right, stop by while projects are gone, just some boots on the ground. So, I did that on the side for him. And then he moved here and made me an offer to join him full-time on his team as his acquisitions guy, sales and acquisitions guy. Okay. So, I prayed about it, man. I had a lot of conversations with people in my life and, of course, my wife as well and made the leap. And I worked with him for a little while, for a little over a year. And, yeah, it just made sense to kind of go our separate ways, but started our own thing after that. And here we are five years later with the real estate investing business and portfolio and all that good stuff.

[10:26] That’s awesome. Tell me a little bit about what that looks like when he hired you. So, were you kind of salary-based or were you kind of percentage of deal-based? What would that look like? Yeah. So, it was very heavily commission-based percentage of deals. So, there was a little bit of a salary, right, for a little bit of stable income stability. My wife worked full-time as well. But it was heavily commission-based. But the year I worked for him full-time, we flipped 46 houses between Atlanta and Middle Tennessee. So, there was a lot of me on the bone, if you will, on a commission basis. Wow. Okay. So, when you took the leap of faith, you had a little bit of guarantee. He had a track record in a different market, right?

[11:11] And you all had kind of maybe seen a little bit of what could be in your market because you were kind of already doing some running around for him, right? Yeah, that’s exactly it. So, the reason it made sense for me is because for the previous year, I got exposure to how he operates, what kind of volume he did, right? The systems and process, the proof of concept, if you will, for what he already had established. And we did five or six in Middle Tennessee while he was still in Atlanta that previous year. Okay. And it already started building out some relationships and things. So, knowing that I was also going to be a part of the things that he was still doing in Atlanta and then building something here in Middle Tennessee, yeah, it just felt like a good opportunity.

[11:49] So, I went after it. But I did have quite a bit of exposure, right, before making that leap to where I had confidence in what he was doing. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess when it all boiled down to it, like you probably were thinking like worst case scenario, I’ll probably, what were you thinking, like make about the same amount of money as I was in my W2 job and I get this new experience? Or what did it end up being? Was it more than your W2? It was. It was more than my W2. And I would have been happy making the same, right? I had freedom of time, some flexibility, some other things, right, I didn’t have in the W2 world. But, yeah, it was way better than I could have imagined. Okay. Okay. I mean, that’s a cool model if anybody’s looking to kind of replicate, if they, you know, are looking to take that much on.

[12:35] So, was that just in that market or is that the 46 flips? Was that, you know, in Atlanta as well? And is that kind of the number that that guy typically does? Yeah, that was more, that was his biggest year for sure. It was split between the two. Okay. He was kind of sitting around 25 to 30 when he was just in Atlanta. And he still had a ton of resources there. And I actually, at least one day a week, I would go, I would leave at like 3.30 in the morning here in Nashville. And I would drive to Atlanta to get there by 8 their time. And we would line up all the houses I was going to look at and all of the houses that we had working that I would go check on. I’d line them all up for one day. And I’d get home at like, you know, 11 at night.

[13:16] But, yeah, it was brutal. But it all worked out, right? We were able to still do volume there. And it was, I mean, invaluable experience that I gained. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So, when you broke off to go into this yourself, what was, I mean, so, yeah, like doing your own thing. I get it why you’d want to do that. Were you also going to focus on other strategies of investing than just flipping? Or what else were you looking to do when you broke off? Yeah, for sure. Actually, I never intended to break off. I was planning to help grow his business. And he and I are still friends to this day. We actually go to church together. But working together, we just, like, really closely, we found out. We’re just, we’re different people.

[13:59] We have different leadership styles, communication styles. Just didn’t really, you know, wasn’t the best fit professionally. So, that’s really the reason I left. Okay. So, never planned to go off on my own. So, I had to revisit kind of when I made the decision I wasn’t going to stay on. Do I take everything I’ve learned and try this on my own? Or do I go back to my W-2, kept a really good relationship with the company that I left? So, there was a process there, right, that my wife and I went through to be at peace with going at this ourselves. But when we made that decision, we knew we wanted to flip houses. That’s the value that I had. But we also wanted to build a rental portfolio. That was part of the goal.

[14:35] I even wanted to start building a rental portfolio while I was still working, you know, for my buddy. So, that’s the goal. Passive income over time is our goal. So, I guess I’ll just tell you, right, we flip 25 to 30 houses a year. And that’s kind of where we want to stay. And we want to keep two to three a year. That’s our goal. Keep two to three as rentals. So, over the next 10 to 15 years, you know, we’ve got, you know, 25 to 50 rental properties that are bringing in some passive income for us. While we still have the active income of flipping. What’s your criteria for keeping them? I’m assuming you’re doing like the Burr method where you’re flipping the house and then refinancing money out to hold it for the long term.

[15:16] Is that correct? That’s exactly correct. So, we use hard money pretty heavily. If anyone’s not sure what a hard money lender is, but there are lenders that will lend to investors, primarily investors, right, based on the deal itself. So, we use a lot of hard money. We have private money too. But when we will initially fund it like we’re flipping the house, but obviously there’s a different underwriting process and a different analyzation to the numbers that we need to hold it. So, but yeah, once we flip it and we get a, or once we renovate it, excuse me, and then get a tenant in there, that’s exactly what we do. We do the Burr method. We then refinance out into DSCR loan or a product like that.

[15:54] At that point, we’re cash flowing and just have a, you know, a longer mortgage on the house. I would imagine that process is more challenging now with interest rates where they are. Are you finding it the best rates or the best way to do that is for the DSCR? Yeah, it’s a great question, man. It still is the best way that we have found to do things just because of the volume that we’re doing and the requirements that you need for a DSCR loan as opposed to more of a traditional lending option. But you nailed it. It’s definitely tricky to make the numbers work. So, you got to find a really good deal and it’s usually one of those smaller first-time homebuyer type houses, right, that you can get for a discount that needs work and make sure when you’re all in between what you bought it for and your rehab that, you know, you’re still on that threshold where you can make money on it.

[16:44] Yeah. So, just to explain what a DSCR loan is as well to people that may not be familiar with it is basically it’s a loan that I think it came from more commercial products. It’s more like, think about it more like a business loan where they are really just analyzing the numbers of if this property will perform like a business. So, what they want to see is the rent rate to be, they have different requirements about what the number needs to be, but how it performs compared to that the mortgage payment would be itself. So, basically, you don’t necessarily need to qualify for the loan yourself and your personal finances and that can be really beneficial if you, for whatever reason, maybe your taxable income is really low because you’ve depreciated a lot of real estate assets and maybe you don’t qualify for a mortgage anymore.

[17:31] You can still get one through a DSCR loan. And, you know, I’m doing one right now, personally, getting better rates than I would get otherwise. And it’s been very simple, 30-year fixed as well. So, it’s not like it’s an arm loan either. But it’s, yeah. And actually, it’s been cheaper too to actually originate. Like the origination fees overall, they’re also cheaper. So, I will keep shopping around. I think especially in the high interest rate environment, you kind of have to be a bit of a mortgage expert to know what the best fit is overall because I think it’s different. Some local banks might offer you a better product than a DSCR loan. Like, for example, I had a bank for a while that was offering a little bit higher of interest rate than what the going rate would have been.

[18:26] However, they were financing basically 80% of the ARV on a 30-year fix from day one. So, you go to close on the property and you’re getting all the cash you need to, you know, renovate the house, buy the house, etc. And if you do it right, you might have a little bit extra. And they just charge a little bit more of interest rate. It’s a 30-year fix as well. Just an in-house loan that a bank was lending on. So, it’s good to make those relationships, right? I mean, you were talking about that earlier. Like, you need to have relationships with in the area you’re working. So, banks. Who else is important to have relationships with? Yeah. So, great question. You laid in right out what I was about to say, man.

[19:07] You’re right, right? You mentioned kind of being a little bit of a mortgage expert. That doesn’t hurt by any means. And shopping around is vital, right? Making sure you have the right options. But relationships, you know, building relationships with other investors and other realtors. There’s a lot of people out there who have rentals and have either used DSCR loans or have used local banks, right? Community banks. So, I have gotten a lot of good recommendations just from other investors or other people who have been able to say, hey, these guys gave me a great rate, right? Or they love doing stuff with people locally. Tell them I sent you. So, great to have relationships with people, too, in the business just that you can lean into.

[19:45] And I’ve also been able to do the same for other people, right? Give them a couple of lenders that I use and say, hey, these guys give great rates, especially if you have a good track record or, you know, if you have a good relationship that you can build with them. So, just networking, man. Networking is huge. Totally. And I think that I have heard it described from banks that basically if you think about a bank looking at their, what they hold, what kind of notes they hold, what their diversity of their portfolio basically is as a bank. And sometimes a bank is going to want to fill a bucket up of real estate. So, they’re going to be interested in these kind of products and be incentivizing people to use them because they want to get more real estate.

[20:24] So, it just really, you know, that’s why it’s just so good to have those relationships. And like you said, if you’re talking to other investors, other agents, they will also be doing that, right? They’ll also be talking to different banks to try to find the best products for themselves as well. So, that’s definitely a great way instead of just, you know, calling every bank in the area. And then you’ve mentioned too, like sometimes the track record is really important. And often a local bank is going to want you to kind of have a deposit relationship with them as well. When you get some different types of products with them. So, keep that in mind. If you don’t have a track record yet, the relationship certainly helps.

[21:03] But, you know, that’s a great time to really maybe see if somebody would be willing to partner with you that maybe already has that relationship established. That’s kind of how I’ve gotten in the door with a few different banks. You know, I just started with a buddy that we partnered on a flip and that’s his go-to person. And so, now I’ve had three deals with them already. And so, you know, they’re like, okay, yeah. If you open up a deposit relationship, an account with us, we’ll be happy to lend you by yourself the next time you want to. Yeah. Love that, man. Partnerships can be huge as well. We leverage them and love them. They can be tricky. You got to be careful with them, right? Make sure you’re partnering with the right people.

[21:40] I cannot overstress that. But they can also be extremely valuable for sure. It’s good to when you start, right? I mean, I think there’s a lot to overcome. Like, I imagine it would have been difficult for you and your wife to just, you know, jump right in and do a flip by yourself, having not had the experience you did, right? Absolutely. Well, 100%. And we have partners too, as far as all kinds of different partners out there. But yeah, having the right people in your sphere, man, can be huge. Your network is your net worth. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that. Someone wrote in the book, somebody you’re less smarter than me. But I love the phrase because it can be huge who you surround yourself with.

[22:18] Totally. Totally. It makes all the difference in the world. Okay. So now you guys are picking up rentals as you go. You’re looking at the smaller, like kind of first-time home buyer range. So like, give us some numbers here. Like, if you’re looking at a median sales price, are you like underneath that as kind of where you want to be with your rentals that you pick up? Yeah, we are for sure. And we’re still buying, yeah, really distressed properties. The rehab process is different when we’re keeping them as a rental, right? Not that the quality isn’t solid because that’s something we’re big on is quality, right? But a rental-grade renovation is a little different than, you know, a full-on rehab for something that you’re trying to flip.

[23:04] So the numbers work much different. But, yeah, median price, I mean, we’re right there. So one we have right now in Clarksville, Tennessee, you know, it’s probably worth $285,000 renovated, like ARV. You mentioned the ARV after repair value for anyone listening that, you know, may not be familiar with that acronym. But $285,000, I think we got it for $180,000 distressed. And we ended up putting $40,000 into it, I think, maybe $35,000 and refinanced out into a DSCR loan. So, yeah, that’s very typical. And that’s at the high end of the threshold of where we would want to be, right? But we have actually had that one a few years before the rates went higher. So numbers were able to work on that one a little better.

[23:48] But that is very typical. $180,000, put in $20,000 or so, and then refinance out as long as you’re within 75% to 80% of what the appraised value would be. That’s what a DSCR loan is going to look for. Yeah, yeah, I’m running into probably the one I’m doing, the BRRRR I’m doing is probably not going to work like a true BRRRR where I get all the cash back out. Partly because I’m doing the 70% and that’s where, you know, getting a better interest rate for that 70% as opposed to 75% or whatever is part of it. So, yeah, and the appraise will honestly came back lower than I expected. So that’s another factor for sure. But it’s still, I mean, if you think about, you know, even if a BRRRR doesn’t work 100% well, like you have this brand new renovated beautiful property.

[24:37] Let’s say you put $10,000 into it. It’s like, would you put $10,000 down to get this deal? Like, you know, it’s still a pretty awesome thing overall. So I can’t really complain. Totally agree, man. Not the worst thing in the world to type a little money, obviously, as long as you can afford to keep that money tied up for a little while in there, right? You can always refinance out again when the rates come down or whatever the case is. Yeah, hopefully that will happen and we can make it even sweeter. So now you’re in an area that has a lot of short-term rental stuff as well, right? I mean, have you branched out to – it’s the Smoky Mountains, right? That’s not too far away from you? Yeah, it’s about three and a half hours for me.

[25:16] So I’m in Middle Tennessee and that’s in East Tennessee. Ironically, we just bought a cabin in Gatlinburg, Smoky Mountains, that we’re going to keep as a short-term rental. So we’re in the middle of renovations right now on that. But we do – That was distressed? Yeah, we found one that was distressed. It was being – it was still – it was being rented out. These people have had it for a long time and just never done any updates or really had a lot of deferred maintenance to it. But so we were able to work out a pretty good deal with them. And, I mean, just comps are great for stuff that’s selling and then performance on Airbnbs in that area are doing really well. So we feel like it’s going to be a home run, but it needs a ton of work.

[25:59] We got like $125,000 worth of renovations that we’re doing to it. How big is the property? It’s a little over 1,900 square feet. Okay. So it’s got four bedrooms, two full baths, and then some common areas too right there. I mean, it’s – I don’t know if you’re familiar with Gatlinburg. If you’ve heard of Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forks. Yeah. Yeah. They’re a popular tourist spot in East Tennessee in the mountains. And it’s a point that’s just under a mile from the strip of Gatlinburg, this Airbnb. You know, it’s funny. So there was – we should get into this a little bit too. But there was this big Airbnb boom, right, through COVID, through the pandemic that definitely happened in that area. But there was also – prior to that, I mean, there was some – you know, the short-term shop, right?

[26:41] I mean, I think there’s some – a few different people that are kind of promoting short-term rentals. And I think that was a very, very popular hotspot. I actually had at least one person – well, one person in particular that comes to mind. But I had a few people that came from that kind of market and then kind of ventured up further north and ended up – so we’re in Harrisonburg, Virginia on the Shenandoah, the Blue Ridge Mountains. We have a resort not too far away. And I actually had somebody from Virginia Beach strike out left and right in Gatlinburg. Couldn’t get a property under contract no matter how hard they tried. And we’re driving back home with their tails between their legs, disappointed and heartbroken and all this stuff.

[27:21] And then it was just kind of like, man, there has to be some other – because they’re basically driving up north through the mountains, right? And they’re like, there has to be something else out there that could work. And then they – I think they’re kind of Googling as they go. And they found the resort close to Harrisonburg, Virginia, Mass Nutton, and found me. And they ended up getting probably one of the best locations of any kind of Airbnb that I sold in that area to date. And it was before everything went crazy. So they’re sitting really pretty now. But it’s just funny how – yeah, that whole – that pandemic thing really blew things up a little bit. Did you – A, did you buy this on the market?

[28:01] And then B, how did you analyze the numbers to make sure that you guys are going to be good at the end of the day? Yeah. So we did buy it on market. We got it for much less than they had it listed for, which is part of the reason it was sitting for a really long time. Sure. And they finally – we just hit it at the right time, right? They were motivated to sell. So – but one of my buddies, he’s an agent, Derek Treanor, here locally. But he has an Airbnb in Gatlinburg. So he’s got a lot of relationships there, and he’s got a lot of knowledge of the area. So he was helping us look for one. And he was pretty pivotal in helping us, you know, with the comp process and the analyzation process. So, you know, being an investor, I’m one of the investors who is very much pro real estate agents, right, and the value that they provide and having them – having really good ones on your side, on your team, having a win-win there.

[28:58] He was crucial for us finding this deal and then helping us go through the process to make sure that we were underwriting it correctly and then all the numbers made sense. That’s awesome. Did you use tools like AirDNA or is it like DataRabu or something? Yeah. I think AirDNA we definitely used. And, yeah, there’s another one that’s slipping my mind right now that Derek introduced us to that I think he uses. But, yeah, and it had solid numbers, too, from the people who sold it. Although they had been there for a while and not done much to it, they had pretty good records. Okay. You know, T12 and just, you know, yeah, it’s really good records of the performance. So it didn’t perform super well, but the property was also not in great shape.

[29:39] Yeah, just any kind of like proof of concept I think can help. I think I noticed that being – the properties that were already set up as Airbnbs and had numbers in our local resort area definitely were more appealing than converting something completely from scratch that was just like a single-family home. And it’s also a good time, I think, now. You know, honestly, I was very apprehensive with Airbnbs and these kind of markets a few years back because I saw the boom happen, right? I saw the sales prices go skyrocket and just the flooding of new Airbnbs. I don’t know how it is in Gatlinburg, but in this area, we had a lot of single-family homes. People were just living in these areas and some short-term rentals.

[30:27] But then, you know, a lot of new ones came on the market. A lot of new short-term rentals came on the market. And so there was a lot more competition. I think a lot of people were buying based on numbers from before there was just this huge influx of new Airbnbs. So they could see, you know, like this property should – on AirDNA should be performing at this level. And then when they actually get up and running, there’s a ton of new Airbnbs. So the reality was they weren’t performing quite as well. And so all that kind of made me feel like there could be this recipe for some downward pressure on price. If a lot of people are underperforming and can’t sustain, they might have to be forced to sell.

[31:04] And then if they’re forced to sell, they might have to start competing down, right? But honestly, it wasn’t near as bad as I expected. It hasn’t been. I think now if you’re setting something up, you’re working with real numbers. I think there’s not like this huge influx of new Airbnbs coming on the market. So you’re actually, you know, using probably a realistic outlook of how the property will perform when you’re doing your analysis. So it’s cool. I’m glad I was wrong. I’m glad it wasn’t as bad as I expected or I was worried about at least. Yeah, absolutely, man. And here in Nashville, completely different market. Airbnb is very popular here too, right? There’s a lot of that, but they really cracked down.

[31:46] The metro area has really cracked down on, you know, limitations and all kinds of stuff. So, but yeah, still a market for it if you do it right. Yeah. And you got to really have good service and focus on the amenities and all that kind of stuff. So it’s, yeah, that’s awesome. We’re, we’re, we’re, the property we’re doing the BRRRR on is actually going to be a midterm rental because our, our city also has regulations on short term. Understood. And that’s something we didn’t even touch on, but I love the concept. I don’t have one yet, but midterm rentals, right? There’s your traveling nurses, there’s your snowbirds. There’s, there’s a whole market for that too. You know, that you can pivot to it.

[32:24] So we have, we’re partnered on a short term rental in Panama city beach. Okay. We have one down there too with some partners and we, we do that during the winter months, right? Midterm it out to some snowbirds. Sure. Um, you know, for the slower months or so, yeah, a lot of options out there, man. So you convert it to like, it’s, it’s more of a short term rental otherwise, but then you’ll, you’ll let it kind of, I mean, I’m guessing you have like what, like a tiered system where it’s like, you know, if you rent it by the night, it’s this price. If you go to a month, you get a discount kind of thing. Is that what it looks like? It is in essence. And, you know, we, this specific one, we’re pretty intentional too.

[32:59] We pull it off of the short term, uh, you know, kind of sites and kind of marketing. And we just market for the midterms for a season. Right. And if we don’t get something locked in for a few months, then we’ll, we’ll just continue short term renting it during that time period. But we give it all the opportunity, right. To be a midterm. Cause if we’re going both and someone books it for a short term and then someone wants it for a few months, then it just, you know, it just goes a wrench in it. So, yeah. Yeah, totally. And, uh, you know, it really boils down to then occupancy rates. I mean, you have to achieve a certain amount. Um, I was, you know, doing the numbers of what, you know, the high end of a long-term rental could be versus what I need to get on average with, you know, occupancy rates, et cetera, uh, on the midterm, uh, to make it worthwhile.

[33:44] Cause I mean, at the end of the day, like if you’re breaking the same, if you’re breaking even, you’ve just furnished a place, you’re paying for utilities. Um, and you have to deal with the, you know, the ins and outs, like the, the moving in, moving out, the cleaning, all that extra hassle stuff. And if you’re just getting what you would for a long-term rental as it washes out over the whole year, what’s the point? Yep. So couldn’t agree more. Yeah. Yeah. So, so tell me more about, um, how you all have built this business. Together. So you and your wife, uh, partnering together. What, how does that look between the two of you? What, what roles do you both have? Yeah. Um, so my wife, um, she, she helps take care of our girls.

[34:26] We have two daughters, by the way. I’m a girl dad, proud girl dad. Yeah. So, you know, that’s a full-time role in itself, but she helps, uh, with all of our design, our interior design. She’s really good at that. And she really loves that. So on a, the most volume that we do on houses is that first time home buyer or, you know, 500 K or less, that’s the highest volume we do. We do some luxury flips as well. Okay. So we’ve got some hiring and stuff and some luxury flips that we have done and we’re doing. And we have a designer that we use on those. But, um, she does a lot of our interior design. She does a lot of our transaction coordination. So she’ll help set up utilities and properties, you know, set up insurance, things of that nature.

[35:04] Some of that stuff that she can do in her own time. And, um, you know, just help out with some of those tedious tasks. She’s great at that. And man, she’s my biggest supporter too. So taking care of our, our girls and all that kind of stuff frees me up as well to, to be able to focus on finding deals and analyzing deals and going to see projects, things like that. So she’s, she’s my better half by far, man. That’s for sure. Anybody who knows me would tell you that too. How old are your girls? For sure. I’ve got an eight and a half year old daughter and I have an almost two year old in May. She’ll be two. Cool. Yeah. We have two girls and then we got a son, um, that’s like two and a half. So, uh, eight, eight, five and two and a half.

[35:46] So I feel you, man. It’s a, it’s a crazy life. It is, man. Do you, uh, I don’t know. I feel like embracing chaos is, is like your strongest attribute. If you’re wanting to be happy as in the stage. Yeah, totally agree. It’s, it’s a, it’s a season for sure. Right. It’s a, it’s a chaotic season, but. I will say, man, I gotta be honest with you. My parents live a couple of miles away and my wife’s parents live a couple of miles away. And, uh, one of my, one of my in-laws is retired and my dad is retired. So, uh, it has been pretty, our village has been pretty awesome to have, have close with the kids. That it takes a village really, uh, makes a lot more sense to me these days. Yeah. I value it a lot more than I used to.

[36:32] That’s for sure. But yeah, we’re blessed, man. Well, tell me a little bit about the luxury flip. Um, so I think, you know, so when I, when I look at my flips, when I look at, um, the, the deals that I’ve done, I think one of the, one of the themes that I’ve come kind of kept in mind is, is that, you know, if you’re are in the meat of the market, if you’re in the median of the market, there’s going to be the most people, the most demand typically. Right. So if you’re renting or if you’re at the median or below, um, that’s the sweet spot as far as high demand goes. Like, you know, if you’re going to be wanting to sell it, you’re going to have a lot of people able to afford it. And it could fit a lot of people, a lot of different demographics.

[37:09] First time home buyers could be one for sure. Um, and then, you know, and depending on the location, there could be others as well. But, um, when, when you’re renting as well, like, you know, if you’re, if you’re wanting to have a steady stream of tenants, like it’s easier to be at that lower price point than it is to do something luxury. So tell me a little bit about how you all look at and what got you to get into the luxury flip market. Yeah, it’s a different market, right? So fortunately here in Nashville, where we are, so Tennessee, especially middle Tennessee, but all of Tennessee has been a, um, it’s been a big draw for some of these people who are coming from California, from New York, right?

[37:50] Colorado, not only is it centrally located, but there’s no state income tax here. Right. Um, you know, we get a little bit of all the seasons, so it’s got some things going for it. Right. So, um, especially here in middle Tennessee, there’s, there’s Franklin, Tennessee, which is right outside of Nashville, which is the nicest area in Tennessee. And it’s a huge draw for these people who are buying these luxury houses, but you got somebody from California who just sold a house, right. And they got $3 million and they come in paying cash for a one and a half and $2 million house that they’re getting land, a little bit of land and the bigger house. So there’s a market for it here. Location is key.

[38:25] As far as luxury flips go, um, we’ve passed on some higher end houses and some smaller areas just because, you know, who knows how long it’ll sit or kind of what the market is there. So location is definitely key, but we got interested in it. Once we had some systems and processes down for our flips and we felt like we had good contractors, things of that nature, and we had built some really good relationships. So our designer for our luxury flips is also an awesome agent, retail agent. And she sells a lot of higher end houses. So she has a lot of network in that, in that market. Right. And, um, she, she and her, her husband’s a contractor. So we’ve actually, we partnered on a couple of deals together.

[39:03] They’re like a, they’re like a bang, bang duo. Right. A dynamic duo. And they’re really good people too. I know. Right. He was a country music singer at one point. He was on the voice. Like I know they got all kinds of check. They’re just checking all the boxes for this, uh, HGTV show or Magnolia network show. But so when I did my first luxury flip was with them. Um, and I’ve done, I think I’ve done five together with them. And the biggest one we did was actually in Franklin and we sold it for $2 million. So some of the comments I made was case in point. California buyer came in, ended up buying it one day on market full asking at 1.99 million cash offer. We closed in two weeks. Wow. So, uh, you know, the, the process from what we typically do to the luxury flip, uh, to answer your question a little more directly, the numbers, we still run the numbers the same.

[39:51] We have to have a lot more margins because the risk versus reward has to make sense. If I’m going to tie up, we bought it for a little over a million distressed. Yeah. Right. A million and $75,000 distressed. Yeah. Ended up putting $425,000 into renovating it. Wow. Yeah. It was a huge project. Right. In order to tie up that much money all the time in order to have the stress and, you know, it was a very nerve wracking project to be in the first one we’d done in that, at that level, the, the margins, the reward had to be worth it. So the number, the process is the same. We just have to have higher margins. You have to build in, you know, uh, longer hold times. So you have to certainly, uh, adjust some of the pieces, but the overall process is the same.

[40:32] So once we felt comfortable with our processes and our systems on flipping a house, we felt like as long as the numbers made sense, we were, we were prepared to go and take down a luxury type flip. So. Yeah. It sounds like that, that, um, agent was probably pretty pivotal to, um, to have confidence in, you know, this is going to sell. Uh, I would imagine like having somebody experienced with that, that said, this is what people want in this market. You should do it like this. Is that, is that accurate? Hands down. So she helped me comp it on the front end when we were underwriting the deal, when we’re analyzing it, you know, before we even officially run her contract, she helped me comp it. She walked in with me.

[41:09] Um, and she knew this area. So this was in a neighborhood called West Haven in Franklin, which is one of the nicer areas, right? It’s a whole community, but she had sold houses within this market, uh, had a lot of relationships and she felt really comfortable with our ARV or after repair value, uh, which gave me the confidence to come and say, all right, um, I can analyze this rehab. I know what it’s going to take to renovate this thing. Yeah. Along with her too, because she was, you know, we use luxury, everything. I’ve never paid the more for an appliance package in a house. I didn’t know appliances cost as much. Right. But that’s what people expect. If they’re paying $2 million for a house, they want the bougie lights.

[41:46] They want the bougie appliances, all that stuff. So along with her help on the design side, yeah, man, we, we, we were able to make it happen. And, uh, we made $175,000, uh, net on that flip. So in that, I don’t, I don’t say that to brag, I hope it didn’t come across the wrong way, but that was our biggest deal to date. But you got to think, man, we’ve paid a million over a million for it and we put 425,000 in it and took eight months from when we bought it to when we sold it. So it’s a long time. That’s a huge risk that we took. Totally. So having that reward and having that, you know, it felt really good to have a win like that. No, that’s awesome. And I mean, to your, to your point as well with the margins, like if you’re, if you’re thinking about, you know, price reductions or negotiations, um, possible, uh, in, in this kind of scenario, if it sits, if it doesn’t sell, um, you know, you’re not looking at, you know, $5,000 reduction, like, or if, you know, you’re looking at a five, or $10,000 or percent off of the original list price, um, kind of negotiation range.

[42:45] Like that’s a lot more significant, obviously. And that kind of price, and it would be on a $300,000 house. You, you, you nailed it, man. If we were going to price reduce that one, right, we were going to be coming down 50 K or, you know, 40 K like price reductions there. It hurts. And if you don’t, if you don’t run your numbers the right way and you don’t have good margins, that can completely kill a deal, right? If we had $75,000 margins here and we ended up having a price reduced by 50 K, you know, spending eight months and a million and a half dollars to make $25,000. Yeah. You know, our, our first time, our smaller flips, I make, you know, 30 K minimum usually. So it’s, it’s, it’s that, but for anyone who’s doing the quick math here, I do want to make a little note here that HGTV and some of these shows, like some of these shows you see, it’s not all glamor for one, but if you know that I bought it for a million, $75,000 and I put four 20 into it and I made one 75, you can do the math that there’s hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs and expenses that we had right between we played 6% of realtor fees

[43:43] on this. Right. So there were six figure, you know, commissions that we paid plus our money costs, right? Our holding costs. So there’s a lot that goes into it, but if you run the numbers the right way, you can definitely win in this space. Yeah. Um, that, that one of the things you said there, uh, made me want to ask this question and that is like, what would you, do you have like kind of a minimum projected, uh, profit that you want to hold before it to, to be able to take on a property like a normal flip? Yeah, absolutely. Um, and people ask me this question a lot. There’s something called the 70% rule. A lot of investors will use. I don’t necessarily use that. The way I run my numbers is based on, um, level of effort and the rehab, for instance, for a house that we’re spending under like $70,000 to renovate, you know, I want my no less than $30,000.

[44:33] That’s my minimum net that I want to walk away with. That’s after the purchase price. That’s just the, or that’s after, that’s my net. So that’s after, after we pay our investors or we’ll pay interest on our money after we pay commissions, after we pay utilities, insurance, right? When we, when we settle at the end of the day, I want them a net 30, 30 K. I guess my question was the $70,000. That’s a repair cost or that’s like all in. Okay. No, that, that’s our rehab cost. Yeah. Apologies for the confusion there. Yeah. So for me, the way I look at it is, uh, our risk, right? If I’m spending a lot more money renovating a property, um, and, uh, more time, right? There’s more complications that can happen.

[45:13] The bigger projects you do. Yeah. So if I can stay a smaller risk, right? A quicker job, I’m okay. Making less money knowing that I’m going to turn this thing around quicker. I’m not tying up as much rehab money, things like that. So that’s how I look at my numbers. If I’m doing, especially if I’m doing a $30,000 flip, $40,000 flip, I’m okay. Making $30,000 net on that. Right. Yeah. Now, if I’m spending 75 to like 120 K in rehab, you know, $50,000 is my minimum that I’m looking for that I’m going to walk away with. Right. There’s, there’s bigger risk. It’s going to take more time, um, bigger project, things like that. And then anything over, yeah, 120, 125 K in rehab. Yeah. I’m looking for a 75 K to, you know, six figures in margins to take on a huge project.

[45:57] Um, that ties up a lot more money, ties up a lot more time, a lot more things can go wrong in a big project like that. Things go wrong with slips anyways. Right. Sometimes you uncover, you take out walls or floors and you see things that you didn’t know were there. So there’s a building in, you know, cushions and things for that, but that’s how we look at things. Um, you know, short answer to your question is based on the level of rehab, but 30 K is our very minimum, no matter what that we want to see in order to feel comfortable pulling the trigger, uh, on a flip. And, uh, the million dollar question too is, is where are you sourcing your deals typically? Yeah. I’m a little unique, at least to other investors who I’m connected with.

[46:34] And we’re, we’re part of a mastermind. There’s all kinds of masterminds out there, but we’re part of an investor mastermind. So I’m connected to a few hundred people and a little unique in how we operate. So we were relationship people, my wife and I, even outside of work, right? We just, we love relationships. We believe in building relationships and loving people in general. It’s just kind of, kind of what we feel like our purpose is in life, right? Just to be good people and to build good relationships. So that carried over into how we built our business. Um, I don’t spend marketing dollars really. There’s a lot of investors who will send mailers or agents too, right? We’ll send mailers or kind of, you know, put some dollars into marketing, which works.

[47:13] That stuff works. I’m not at all downplaying that. Sure. We build ours through realtors that we’ve connected with. So we work with a lot of realtors and we let them know, Hey, if you have a seller, their house is not market ready, or they just want something quick, or if they’re motivated to sell, if you pull us in, you know, we’ll let you represent us and you can list it for us on the back end too. So you can represent us when we sell the house, a beautifully renovated house. Um, so we have a lot of agents who bring us deals. We do have wholesalers that we work with. Uh, those are hit or miss, right? And they get a bad rap too. There’s a lot of bad ones out there, but there’s some good ones out there as well.

[47:48] Um, and then when I say our network, man, and relationships, we went really hard with our social media presence and our exposure into what we’re doing. And, um, a couple of quick examples for you. Um, you know, buddy of mine’s a police officer, right? And I told him, Hey man, you drive around, you patrol all the time. You go and see houses all the time. You see a house that looks like it’s abandoned or it’s vacant, or there’s any situation where you feel like, you know, there’s a potential for that. Someone wants to sell a house that needs a lot of work. If you connect to me, if you shoot me the address and we’re able to buy it, you know, we’ll give you a referral fee. Like we’ll hook you up if it works out.

[48:21] Made friends with my mailman, right? The guy who comes, we talking about the Vols, right? Big Vols fan, right? Who, who sees mail piling up in a mailbox or who sees distressed houses, right? And these people who have occupations that, that’s what they do. They drive around all the time. So, um, we’ve gotten deals that way too. Just really our network and exposure. Um, people from our church, our family want to sell rentals or someone passes away and they don’t want to deal with it, you know, because we have built that presence and, you know, we’ve been fortunate enough to have people just bring us a deal and make it work. So that’s our main resource. We do reach out to pre-foreclosures. That’s one of our biggest kind of tools that we do direct to seller is, you know, we look at pre-foreclosures, see if there’s a win-win to help somebody out of a tough situation that makes sense for them to sell their house and then probates as well.

[49:05] Those are the two direct to sellers that we really do. People who have inherited properties and are, you know, potentially looking to just offload them and looking for a cash offer. Um, we go direct to seller on those and then, yeah, basically our network, man. That’s awesome. That’s really cool. I love that. I mean, that’s such a great, uh, example. I mean, that’s, that’s good marketing. That’s good practice for, you know, real estate agent sales as well as investing. That’s just, you know, being like, you know, well-connected and just kind of having that in your mind all the time. I mean, that’s kind of what one of the approaches I’m looking at for the midterm rental is just kind of, if I have this like in my head all the time of, of like, you know, who is going to be, uh, if I see, you know, a construction company working somewhere that is from out of town that I don’t recognize the name or whatever, you know, maybe that’s a source I could try to get some, uh, midterm rental stays from and just, you know, kind of keeping your getting creative, thinking about it and just kind of, you know, keeping that open,

[50:03] uh, so that you can find those opportunities. Yeah. Looking for opportunities instead of like, just being held back by like doubt or whatever that some people struggle with. Yep. Absolutely. And not, not an annoying or, uh, you know, a negative way, but I also just try to take advantage of conversations or when I meet people, I’m never like, Hey, I flip houses. You got anything, you know, I’m not like annoying with it, but you know, if I’m meeting someone or talking to someone and they ask me, Hey, how are things going? Yeah. I’ll slide in. Yeah. I went by checking on one of our properties this morning. Uh, whenever they’re like, sometimes that’ll lead to a really property. What do you do? So, you know, I always look for just ways to at least let people know, you know, what we’re doing and just be front of mind if it comes to them.

[50:42] So. That’s awesome. Um, well, I have to ask, uh, if you have any kind of golden nuggets that you’d like to share, uh, with people that maybe are thinking about getting into, uh, investing in general or just kind of, you know, general wisdom for, uh, people mindset for people in this, in this space. Yeah. Two quick things for me. I’ll say one on the real estate side and then one on just kind of the mindset side, um, on the real estate side of things, especially on the investor side of things. Uh, the nugget I have, man, is it can be scary for people who are like, I don’t have the money to buy a house. Right. Or I don’t have all this kind of stuff. It is shocking how many resources are out there.

[51:21] Right. You just got to take action. That’s my biggest thing. Like just take action, get in the right room, right? Be around people who are, who are either doing it or have some knowledge there and soak everything you in and just take, take action. You’d be surprised at how many resources that, how many resources for capital there are, how many deals are out there, but it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter how many deals are out there or how much access to money you have. If you’re not looking for a deal or if you’re not taking the action, just right. Like putting, rolling up your sleeves and getting some good old, uh, you know, reps in then, uh, you know, it’s hard to do anything. You can, you can listen to podcasts all day and read books all day, but if you don’t do anything with it, then, you know, you’re going to sit right there.

[52:02] So that’s my biggest thing. Just get out there and get after it. I love it. Um, yeah, that’s just take action, man. Yeah. Do something right. Just, just to add to that real quick is I think that, you know, that’s been a reoccurring theme on this show for sure. Just to, in addition to what you said, but like to try to find it, find the deal first. Don’t worry about where the money’s going to come from, uh, right away like that. People often wait till they have, you know, their savings up or they want to, you know, think the traditional, like, I don’t, well, I can’t, how could I possibly buy a deal if I don’t have any money or, you know, a connection to somebody. But I think, you know, if you find the deal good enough, you can figure it out.

[52:37] Typically. I totally agree. And I’ve been shocked at how many people in my life have access to capital, whether that’s a self-directed IRA that they want to fund with or, you know, all kinds of different things. Um, so people, people are looking for ways to grow their money. So get out there and get after it. Yeah. If you build, was it the movie? If you build it, they will come. Find the deal. They will come. Yeah. Um, a hundred percent. So on the mindset side, man, I preach this a lot to my team and just in life in general, even my kids, right? This is something you can play anywhere. But the two things that I talk about all the time is the right, having the right communication and setting the proper expectations.

[53:14] So in a nutshell, if you set the proper expectations, whether it’s with a contractor, whether it’s with your kid, when you’re going to the playground and you’re telling them how long you have, or, hey, five in the morning, right? If you’re setting the right expectations and then you communicate properly throughout the project, sometimes that means you got to reset expectations, right? Not everything goes smoothly. Yeah. But if you have the right communication to say, hey, things have pivoted. Now we’re all on the same page. You would be surprised how great relationships can be, how much more efficient and how much smoother things can be. If you just communicate, over communicate, right? Take the time to have the conversations and then just everyone be on the same page.

[53:52] Make sure expectations are set. Keep your word, right? If you say you’re going to do something, do it. And if you can’t, then have the right conversations to reset that expectation. But whatever relationships you have, whether it’s on the agent side, whether it’s on the contractor side, whether it’s with your wife, your kids, brother, your parents, right? Just communicate well. It’s not worth it to not communicate well and just set the right expectations. I’ve found so many times that that has been helpful, especially in tough conversations. If we had the right expectations on the front end, whenever it came down to have a tough conversation, things went a lot smoother because we all knew, right?

[54:28] And we had communication leading up to that point. That’s a really good nugget. I mean, that is so true in the real estate sales world. That is just so true. I mean, so a lot of people get a bad rap because they’ll set a sign in the yard and never talk to the seller again. They start expecting the house to get sold and to hear about updates, etc. So I definitely hear that all the time. So that’s beautiful. And if you can really hash that out, a system for how you’re going to be communicating and what you want to communicate as your client’s expectations for the process, how that’s going to all look, thinking about that intentionally before you get into the scenario where you’re under contract or whatever is super key.

[55:13] So that’s awesome. I love it. Yeah. And on the investor side of working with agents, it’s been crucial for me too to say, hey, you brought us this deal. I love it. We’re going to let you list it on the back end. That’s our agreement. But here’s my expectations, right? For what we’re going to do, right? Because there’s a lot of great realtors out there. They’re not all created equal. There’s a lot of ones who, like you said, put a sign in the yard and they want to let it ride, right? Yeah. But if we have the right expectations that we expect open houses, we expect marketing, right? We expect, you know, this and that. We especially be proactive when, you know, reaching out to people or asking for feedback.

[55:46] You know, it’s just on both sides. The expectations and they communicate and it’s so crucial. I’m going to give you one quick example because I use this on a recent one. Even with my, it’s an elementary one with my kid, but you can apply it to anything, right? So going to a play date at the park and I told my daughter, her name is Berkeley. She’s my best buddy, by the way. She’s my dude. She’s like my ride or die. We told her, hey, we got an hour and then we got to go meet mommy and Bella. Our other one, we got to go meet them, you know, to go do something. So we have an hour. I want you to know when we’re going to play, have a blast. We’re going to have a blast. We got an hour. So she knew going into it, right?

[56:21] There’s a time limit on this. We’re not just going to play unlimited. So about 15 minutes they gave her, you know, hey babe, we got 15 minutes. Then we have to go and another five minute morning, right? And just saying, hey, five more minutes. Anything you want to wrap up, anything you haven’t done yet, make sure you do that. So then when we leave, there’s no tears. There’s not like the whole, you know, oh, I don’t want to go because the expectation was set. And then it’s like communicated along the way, right? So you can apply that to anything in life. But if you set the right expectations and you’re intentional with communication, situations can be a lot smoother than if I just, we went to play and I’m like, hey, it’s time to go.

[56:57] Let’s go. I don’t want to leave. I’m having fun, right? Totally with kids. I mean, you’re right. It applies to everything. And that’s definitely true with kids too. Yeah. Kids for sure. For sure. But if you’re intentional, man, if you’re intentional with communicating and expectations, yeah, I think your relationships, I think you’ll find, have some health to them. Yeah, I love it. Now, how about a book? Do we have a favorite book that you currently are reading or the one that you think is kind of fundamental that everybody should read? Again, mindset or real estate investing specific? Yeah. My favorite book right now is called The Go-Giver. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, but we’re big on giving in our home anyways.

[57:38] And that one had a lot of really good principles in it. Just talking about other people and how giving can, you know, it can really not only help people, but obviously it can help yourself and kind of further what you’re doing by investing in other people. It’s running yourself with the right people. If we’re talking about the book I read the most, it’s called Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed. That’s what my two-year-old is in love with right now. So volume wise, that’s the one I read the most. But now Go-Giver, man. If anyone hasn’t read it, I would encourage you to give it a shot. It’s a good book. Yeah, I love it. That’s a great book. Cool. Well, if anybody’s interested in knowing more about you, is there social media they can follow?

[58:14] What’s the best way to kind of know more about Lyle? Absolutely, man. So we have Sparrow Real Estate Investing is our Facebook. On Instagram, it’s Sparrow underscore REI underscore. And then we have a website as well, www.SparrowREI.com. So we have some of our portfolios on our website. So if you want to kind of see some of our befores and afters and some good content on there too. But yeah, we’d love to connect with anyone if they’re looking to reach out. Cool. That’s so much. That’s awesome. I love it so much. Thanks. This has been a great conversation. I really had a good time. I hope we can stay in touch. If anybody’s looking for Airbnbs, we can throw each other, connect them to your agent that helped you with Gatlinburg, et cetera.

[58:59] But yeah, it’s been a really good conversation. I appreciate it. Yeah, right back at you, man. Appreciate it. I got to leave you with something though. Dad jokes are my thing. So you got to let me tell you one from one dad to another. Let me tell you one dad joke. Yeah. Yeah. What do you call an alligator with a GPS?

[59:15] I don’t know. A navigator.

[59:20] There you go, man. Little nugget. That’s the other nugget. Yeah. Last nugget for you. That’s awesome. Thanks so much. Yeah, man. Have a good day. Have a good day. Thanks for listening to the REI Agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week. Visit REIAgent.com for more content. Until next time, keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.