From Marine to Masterful Mindset Master: The Relentless Journey of Nathaniel Cherubini

[0:00] Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matthias, an agent and investor. And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let’s do it.

[0:23] Welcome back to the REI Agent. We have Erica. Woo. Woo. Erica, you’ve had a number of obligations, children, PT, a lot of things that have prevented some of the recent recordings for you to be on it. But it’s always a better conversation when you’re here. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I know. I feel like physical therapy takes up about 40% of my week right now. I guess, I don’t know if I mentioned it without you on the air, but we can talk quickly about how your PT is kind of cool, how they’ve kind of been looking at the CrossFit work. I don’t know if you want to talk a bit about how you’re kind of transitioning back into the gym. Yeah. I think last week maybe was the first week I was able to attend a CrossFit class.

[1:08] And my physical therapist is amazing. Really appreciated his insight. And just so the last time we met for PT, I went through, I showed him the CrossFit workouts for the rest of the week. And he helped me modify each one so that I could still go to class. I could still be with the group. And I could do them safely. And so we decided, because I only have a set number of PT sessions allowed by insurance, we’re spreading them out more. But then we’re going to meet on Mondays and go through the week’s worth of workouts so that I can participate as much as I can through the week. And so that’s, it’s super nice. And it also helps me feel like I, it gives me more confidence, I guess, in the workout so that I’m not re-injuring myself and I’m making sure that I’m pacing correctly.

[2:01] Yeah. It’s probably also just feeling like you can get back to kind of who you were, your life, what it was before, even though it’s not 100%. It just is kind of a good step towards that to join the community, get in the class. It’s nice to have you there. Yeah. Thank you. It has been nice to be working out with people again, because the last couple of weeks I’ve been doing like very minimal exercises, but then also like upper body back in this, our bootcamp room, which is like back in the back, there’s no windows. So it’s, it’s okay, but it’s just nice to be back with everybody. Yeah. Well, we, we just talked to Nate Ciarabini, who was a very wise person. I really enjoyed the conversations he’s had about lots of different things.

[2:53] But one of the things that stuck out to me, and I wanted to talk a little bit about more was how he’s kind of talking to his teenage children and how he’s trying to give them these like life lessons that he’s learned that he wish he knew earlier, trying to mentor teens in general. And it just kind of reminded me of when I was working as a behavior specialist in the high school, in our local high school, how I, you know, I had a seven habits of highly effective teens, like book that would work with kids with and have like a, you know, workbook to go with it and try to kind of do all this like character building work with these kids, with these teens. And, and how I felt like, you know, I had a great rapport with them.

[3:37] They really value what I had to say. They really were trying hard, even though it was really hard to, to understand these concepts to, to, to make changes, to, to, to understand and to, to kind of grow into being somebody, you know, bigger, like a, a more mature, well-rounded person. And so I’ve always had this hope in the back of my head that I, that would translate well with my kids when they’re teenagers. So he was talking about it. And, and I, you know, when I was in the elementary schools as a behavior specialist, I just, it just didn’t connect as well. And I feel like I have still some of that disconnect with our kids and just, it’s a learning curve to kind of try to communicate things to their level when I want to talk at a, you know, high school plus level with them.

[4:24] But you’ve been doing some of that too with. With, with the kids. Yeah. We’ve, we’ve been talking a lot about the choices that they have in responding to certain situations and helping them understand that if they’re in a situation that doesn’t feel good or they, they don’t like, or that they think is unfair, there are choices they have to respond to it. They, I think sometimes they just feel stuck in this feeling of anger and frustration and hurt feelings and they, they want the other person to change. So that way the feeling can go away. And I mean, our, you know, these, this is our five and eight year old. And so they’re young, young, young. And so I’ve been talking to them about, you know, in this particular situation, I think you maybe have two choices and you can either move yourself away from the situation.

[5:20] And go play somewhere else. Or you can, if you would like to, you can talk about what’s going on with the person and kind of suggest change. And then I think, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, but, um, Isla, our five-year-old, she said, no, there’s a third option. And I said, well, what’s the third option? She said, I could just do nothing and keep, keep it the same. And I was like, what? That’s true. That is an option. I don’t know if you would be happy with that. And she’s like, I don’t think so either. I think, I think the seeds are being planted, but, but it’s still very hard for them sometimes to recognize that I have, uh, something that I can do to respond or to change what’s going on around me.

[6:03] Um, yeah, it’s, it’s an ongoing struggle to really try to instill these values and, uh, deep concepts to kids. Cause I think they’re often counterintuitive, um, to what, to what we naturally want to feel or how we naturally naturally feel. Um, and so it’s nice. I mean, you know, uh, Nate boiled down some concepts. I don’t need to give it away now, but he, he had some pretty simple things that he, you know, said that any like first grader could understand. Um, but it applies so well to you for your whole life. And I think that’s the, that’s the art of it is to really take these complex, um, things and to try to, to boil them down to more core concepts that are more digestible. And in fact, if somebody is not read or has read, um, the seven habits of highly effective people, I honestly feel like the teen version was better.

[6:53] Maybe I’m just not mature enough yet to read the adult version, but, uh, I felt like it was just, it was that it was like taking these big abstract, uh, concepts and make it more simple, uh, and approachable. And I felt like it was, um, you know, very well, very easy to read and, and to, to apply even, you know, to adult scenarios. So that’s maybe a great example of, you know, that’s an art. Maybe chat GPT can do that for me. I can like plug in a book and be like, all right, now help me explain this to my eight year old, my five year old. Yeah. I’m reading the let them theory, um, right now with a friend and we’re only, you know, a couple of chapters into it, but it focuses so much on identifying, you know, your, the sphere that you do have control over and it’s not how people think or feel about you or, or what the decisions that they’re making, but it’s more of the control that you have about how you think and respond to those situations.

[7:50] And, um, I mean that the end result of all of this is it lowers your cortisol level because you’re less stressed and you’re not worried and you’re not anxious. And so then you end up feeling a lot more calm and then you’re just able to be more productive and functional in life in general. Yeah, that would be, I’m excited to read that one. I tried to start, but I think our shared audible had it where you were leaving off. So I don’t want to ruin your place. So I will patiently wait until I can read it as well. Uh, cause that, that one has definitely come up a few times in the book as well. And I think most people who have suggested it have just been like, it’s, you know, it’s not necessarily revolutionary, but it’s just kind of this book that really resonates and helps you really apply something that you may have kind of understood, but not really applied in your life better.

[8:40] Yeah, that’s true. It’s very simple, easy to, easy to act on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, so, uh, this conversation with Nate was, uh, was really good. Like I said, he is, uh, wise. He had a lot of great, uh, things to say, uh, former Marine. Well, he’s still a Marine. Um, and he is an investor and a lender. Um, so lots of great applicable information. Um, really, really fun conversation. So without further ado, uh, here is Nate Gerebini. Yeah.

[9:13] Welcome back to the REI agent. We are here with Nate Gerebini. Nate, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Great to be on your show. And I said that, said it right. Yeah. Yeah. He made the joke off air that, uh, you’re six, two and two 20. So that’s maybe not the best last name for you. Yeah. Yeah. I’m nice. I’m a nice guy.

[9:38] Uh, yeah, Nate, thanks so much for joining us today. Um, I’m excited to dig into, uh, your story a little bit, uh, off air. You also told us that you are working in the Pentagon. So you are only two hours away from us. Um, but you came from the West coast. So tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into real estate. Oh man, that’s a lot. Uh, grew up in New Jersey, joined the Marine Corps, uh, before we invaded Iraq. Uh, 21 years later, I’m still in the Marine Corps working in the Pentagon, my full-time job. Uh, I’m also a licensed lender. And along the way, uh, did what military does. And we bought a house, uh, using a VA loan, um, turned into accidental landlords, um, which is a great way to get started.

[10:22] And, uh, it was on my last deployment in 2017. I discovered, uh, bigger pockets through a Brandon Turner book and said, let me do this real estate thing. Um, the seed was planted in the nineties, listening to Carlton sheets on like an infomercial about buying houses with, uh, no money down. And I always said, I’m going to do real estate and then put it on a back burner for a long time. And, uh, yeah, I’ve lived all over, uh, Hawaii, Okinawa, Florida, North Carolina, you know, California is when I really started to get into real estate. Uh, that was about five and a half years ago. I lived, I moved there and I left there about two years ago to come to Virginia. And, uh, it’s, it’s evolved, you know, COVID happened and things happen and we lost money and made money.

[11:08] So it’s been a journey. A couple of follow-up questions for you. Um, where, where was that, uh, property that you became accidental landlords in North Carolina, North Carolina. Okay. Yeah. Jacksonville, North Carolina. No, we actually, uh, retired bankers, uh, were renting it from me. Great people. Hurricane hit $80,000 worth of damage to a house that was three years old. Um, and they said that they just liked the neighborhood so much they wanted to buy it from us. So we did a lease to own and then they managed the, the rebuild and the insurance claim. And they like were sticklers on the line items and did a better job than I could have done. And then at the end of the lease term, they executed their option to purchase.

[11:53] So it was good. That’s awesome. Yeah. Wow. And then what, what Brandon Turner book did you, uh, get, get you started? Oh, I should probably have known that.

[12:07] Um, it’s got good ones. They’re all great. Yeah. It was one of those early ones. I was surprised that it wasn’t the podcast, uh, that it was actually the book. Uh, because normally I feel like most people would probably get into the bigger pockets podcast first and then, then start reading the books. But anyway, yeah, it was backwards because I didn’t have, uh, you know, internet or wifi on a big Navy boat in the middle of the Middle East. So, uh, I got a book, an audio book. And then as soon as I got back from that deployment, I dug into the podcast and listen, there’s only there are 200 episodes in. So I listened to all of them and went all the way through like episode 700 by the time I stopped with the, the, you know, committed listening.

[12:48] Sure. Yeah. The no and low money down, um, is, is a, is a great one. And then also I think I’ve read, uh, managing, uh, managing rentals, but I think he’s got some other, uh, more introductory ones. So, but yeah, great books, great resources. What initially got you into the Marines, Nate? Was that something that you always wanted to do? Yeah. Um, I found out my father was a Marine when I was, uh, probably 11 or 12. Uh, but he wasn’t like real moto about it or anything like motivated about his, uh, his time. He served 70 to 74. Uh, but my grandfather I knew was a Marine. Uh, he came in at the end of World War II and, uh, he was like the guy wearing a red hat and doing shooting events and marching and parades.

[13:33] So, um, I wanted to be a Marine cause my grandfather, then like someone flipped the script, like, Oh, your dad also was a Marine. So that’s surprising. Um, but I didn’t do it when I graduated back in the 1900s, as my kids like to say, 1999, I graduated high school. There was no war. So I, uh, I waited until there was something, you know, something, uh, in pursuit, like, like the war on terrorism. So what do you think, you know, when I, when I hear, uh, Marines, I think intense, um, I think discipline, uh, what, what do you, what lessons from your time in the Marines? I mean, you’re still in it. Um, do you feel, feel like really applied well to your real estate pursuits? Uh, discipline, no doubt.

[14:19] Um, it doesn’t really matter how you feel that day. You do what you have to do. And, uh, it’s kind of a way of life. Um, I thought it’d be a little more attention to detail. Uh, you know, it starts off that way through bootcamp, but, um, I got more attention to detail from working in a family business, uh, building boats and understanding that you put your name on everything that you do. Um, and then you kind of merge those together and the attention to detail, uh, from the family boat business with the discipline from the Marine Corps. Um, I, I think the importance of, uh, relationships, uh, cause it is people, Marines can be intense. There’s a lot of type A personalities and I tend to be like a peacemaker, um, and not hyper competitive, like everybody I work with, which drives me nuts.

[15:07] Um, but, you know, finding out what makes people, uh, motivated to get something done, uh, you know, what influences people to want to, to get things done and achieve things. Uh, I think that that’s helped me like navigating the world of a bunch of alpha alpha mentalities as not really the aggressive person. It’s, it’s helped me. That’s fascinating. I am curious. What, what has it been like for you to be, you know, kind of a part of like the, the military culture and then also kind of in like civilian work with real estate and the culture differences between the two. Yeah. Um, fortunately a couple of my assignments have been at, um, big civilian work for centers like the national security agency and the Pentagon, uh, us cyber command, which is at the national security agency.

[15:58] Uh, there’s a lot of civilians there. So it kind of softens you a little bit and you realize that like, uh, the kind of humor that’s acceptable and not acceptable, uh, you know, kind of knocks the edges off of, uh, you know, some people that are a little rougher. Um, but honestly, um, civilian culture, uh, there it’s, it’s just the Marine Corps is made of, it’s a melting pot of people from all over. And, uh, when you take the uniform off, they’re just people and they have the same, uh, goals and value system and all. Uh, it’s just everything in the military feels very temporary or you’re waiting for the next duty station or the retirement or the, your next job. Whereas when you work with civilians, they’re already living that.

[16:46] So, um, it is a bit of a mindset set shift when you’re talking to investors and they’re ready to go now and they’re not moving in three years or not just moving from somewhere. They’ve always lived there. They know everybody. Um, and that’s kind of like an advantage that people don’t realize they have is they’re, they know their hometown. Typically they have support networks that are local. They have, you know, a handyman that can be recommended from a family member or a neighbor that they trust. So, um, there’s inherent advantages that people have that they’re not even aware of. I was thinking about that just in the, the sense of feeling like you’re, you’ve arrived home again and just how much you’ve moved around.

[17:25] Do you feel like, or where is home for you at this point? I don’t know. Uh, my family’s in New Jersey. I’ll never go back to that state other than to visit. Uh, it’s expensive there. Uh, lots of potholes and people that don’t smile a lot. So, um, it’s not that bad. I just like to give it, give it a hard time. Um, yeah, I don’t even remember what I was saying. Yeah. I mean, Erica, you can probably relate to, to moving around a lot. Um, as, as a kid for a different reason, but, um, you know, the home sense of home was definitely different for you as well. Growing up like where, where that was, uh, you know, not as much of a location, but maybe like kind of how you, uh, have your things organized in the space or I don’t know.

[18:14] I mean, you can talk better about that than I can. Yeah. I mean, we, we moved every year or two. People often asked if my family was military and it’s usually like the other answer. My, but my parents were both pastors and so they moved to different churches. Uh, but, but yeah, don’t, Matias has a, you know, a childhood home that he grew up in and I don’t really know what that experience is like per se. And home for me has become, I guess the, the people more so than the place and just being with, you know, the people that are close to me, but also probably why I haven’t moved since I’ve been on my own then too. I just sort of hunkered down and settled. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. That’s a, it’s a great point is the people that you find community with that you find, uh, shared pursuits with.

[19:02] Uh, it’s why veterans trust other veterans. You look for veteran owned businesses and you take recommendations. You happen to be a lender. So I’m always getting VA referrals. Um, you see that with the CrossFit world and the real estate investor world. You know, I’ve met people in Southern California or Orlando and like, just because we had that connection of real estate investing, like we became friends or we trust each other’s, uh, advice and recommendations even outside of real estate. So, uh, home though, I live in Virginia. Uh, it’s about the communities that you build and the groups that you spend time in, invest in. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I can relate to that for sure. It is interesting that, you know, given like a shared experience, you, there’s this automatic baseline of trust that is just there.

[19:49] It just exists without question. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It’s perfectly said. What, um, so after that first accidental landlord into the lease option, uh, what kind of investing did you do after that? So I went, I was in California, went to a conference in Virginia and a buddy from officer school. Uh, he was in from Colorado. His name is Justin. No, he happens to be my business partner. Now, um, we were in line to get food at like Chipotle or something. And I said something about tenants and it was my tenants in North Carolina. And he mentioned that he had tenants in Maryland and North Carolina. And I said, have you heard of bigger pockets? And he said, uh, no. And so we started talking and realized we both had a major desire to get involved in real estate investing, like deliberately, not just accidentally.

[20:46] Both his properties were prior, uh, lived in, you know, primary residence. So, um, we decided to become accountability partners. And, uh, within the first week I had listed my RV on RV share, which is like Airbnb for campers. Yeah. Uh, because I told him I would and, you know, uh, we’re going to be accountable to each other. And like seven days later, uh, so hours before our call, I was like, I got to get it on the, on the website and I got it listed last minute. I actually got a booking before I had our accountability call. So, um, awesome. That, that evolved for a few months and we realized we had shared, uh, values, um, a shared view of money, which is important, uh, and what to do with money and the feeling of service and the realization we’re going to take off the uniform one day.

[21:35] Uh, and we needed to do something that felt bigger than us. Um, so we decided to partner up and buy some rental properties in 2019. And we, we did and, uh, been off to the races since. Yeah. You, you, um, mentioned that, uh, you know, going through COVID that changed a lot. Um, even lost some money. Uh, can you get into that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. Um, first home we bought was a duplex for $104,000. Um, the gross rents was like 1700 a month, you know? So, and the numbers got better over time, obviously. Um, it’s value doubled since COVID actually it’s more than doubled. Um, and then the second thing we got was a duplex that was nonconforming and the realtor happened to be a friend of his and her husband was a contractor.

[22:29] And they told us like, yeah, we can turn this into a triplex and we work with the city. It’s our specialty is dealing with permitting and all like, this is going to be great. Um, it wasn’t great. I think they were in over their head. I don’t believe it was anything malicious. Um, but we bought it for like $105,000. We felt like that was a great deal because it was listed for a lot higher. Um, we did the full gut job and ran into some issues with foundation and we put a new roof on it and we realized it was going to take a lot of money and we had raised all private money for this. Okay. And then COVID happened and the contractor, the biggest problem was they weren’t problem solvers. Uh, they identified problems like COVID happened.

[23:13] So our crew quit cause they’re getting paid to not work. And so we started offering options like we’ll fly down. I got some people, we can get to work and we work under your license. And they’re like, we’re not comfortable with that. Um, and then her husband hurt his knee, um, which we can relate to here. But at the end of the day, we, we decided to sell it to a wholesaler. Uh, so we bought it for one 10, we sold it for 105 after we spent about, uh, 85, $90,000. On the project. So, I mean, we, overall we lost 120 grand. Uh, so it’s 60,000 a piece. Um, it hurt. I didn’t have it to lose. I had to take out like a HELOC to cover that. Uh, cause we paid our investors back. Our investors were made whole cause we realized the fundamental, um, client of our business is our investors.

[24:07] They’re going to make us wealthy. We’re going to make them whole every time. So we went, we went and took it, uh, you know, in order to make them whole, we took about a month of not talking to each other or about real estate. And then Justin flew out to California and we did like a deep dive on, okay, let’s turn this into $120,000 education and what not to do in real estate. So we have our master’s degree in what not to do. Um, and then we doubled down and we bought, uh, eight more properties since then and started developing and land flipping and a whole bunch of other things. Uh, cause shiny objects happen, but, um, we, we’ve haven’t lost since, uh, even deals that went away. We didn’t want them to go.

[24:51] Um, we ended up still making money cause we always have a plan B and C. So it was a good learning experience. That’s really tough. I mean, that’s really one of those things that, I mean, you can do as much due diligence as you can, but you can’t necessarily foresee something like a pandemic happening, which I mean, we were in the middle of a, uh, kitchen renovation for our own house. Um, and we had a lot of issues with contractors at the time as well. It just took a lot longer. Um, so yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s definitely tough. Um, but like you said, you know, having good BCD plans or whatever is always helpful as well when you’re getting into these things. So, um, w at what point did you start getting into the lending side as well?

[25:35] Um, so Justin retired from the Marine Corps cause he’s a quitter and real estate agent. Uh, so he’s crushing it as an agent. I mean, he’s insane. He pays a guy a couple thousand a month to follow him around with the camera and make content, you know, he’s just like, he’s getting after it. Wow. And, uh, he invested big in himself. He spent a lot of money when there was a time of uncertainty when he’s just making his retirement income and which is like half of what you’re used to making. Um, and he spent money on himself when other people would have been scared and reserving their money is their capital. He spent money on education. He spent money on mentorship and coaching. Um, and it paid dividends because just three years later, he’s not even three years later.

[26:21] He’s, he’s just crushing it on all fronts. So, um, I felt like I had to step up my game. He’s like, you need to be a real estate agent. I was like, I don’t have the time, you know, showing people’s houses and stuff like that. So, uh, I became a lender and I joined a guy that wrote some of our loans. We couldn’t beat him ever. So, uh, Carmen Cipollone is my mentor and I work under him, the simple loan group. And, um, he’s been teaching me the ropes of, of financing. And, uh, it’s interesting to get your license. You learn all the obligatory training of like some of the regulations, you know, don’t be a bad person. Don’t be a thief, a dishonest, a racist, or a sexist. I’m like, cool. How do I do the lending?

[27:03] Oh, you got to get hired to learn that. And, uh, so you get hired on and then they, they kind of pull the curtain back and show you how, how lending works. So it’s been interesting, that’s how it is with getting your license as an agent as well. Like you’d go through the training and you’d like, now you get to learn how to actually do the business. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess, I guess one, one obvious question I have, uh, that you probably have put some thought into, but, um, if you were, you know, had your real estate hat on earlier when you first joined the Marines, you mentioned the VA loan, um, and moving around a lot. Uh, do you think there would be any way you would more intentionally invest in real estate if you could have, if you could start over or would you have advice to people in the, in that kind of similar situation?

[27:47] Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Uh, my first duty station in 2004 was in Hawaii and you could buy a condo for $300,000, which I thought was insane, but they’re, you know, over a million dollars now. So man, the opportunities, uh, I always tell people it’s, you know, and it’s, it’s not my original thought. The best time to buy a house, you know, it was 10 years ago. The second best time is today. It’s like planting a tree. If you can afford to get into something now, get into something now. Uh, the VA loan makes it, uh, so easy. There’s no money down, no PMI. Uh, you can get into your primary. Then when you leave, you can rent it out. And even if you’re not, you know, to me, the cashflow is great. Uh, but preserving capital is also great, especially in, you know, uh, high inflation environments, stuff like that.

[28:37] You’re gonna be paying it back at tomorrow’s devalued dollars. So get into something today when the dollars as valuables is going to be. Um, and then with the VA streamline refinance, you know, I’ve used that like a weapon, uh, to get lower rates, so then to pull money out and pull that money out and buy investments. You know, I mean, it’s just been, I did three streamlines in three years in California on my primary, I actually put a post on it online. Uh, it talks about like how to maximize, you know, VA products. Um, but that, that was powerful. Uh, you know, every time you refinance, you skip two mortgage payments. So every year I’m making 10 mortgage payments instead of 12. Um, and that’s an extra $7,000 in your pocket right there, you know, and then any money you pull out and I was able to, you know, pull out well over $50,000 and get involved in some other projects down in Florida that pay dividends.

[29:33] So it’s a great product. I, I, I tell, uh, Marines all the time, if, if you don’t, if you’re not drowning in debt and you have your, you know, faculties about you, like buy a house. Yeah. So, so avoid consumer debt. Oh, absolutely. Uh, then B, then B just, just buy as many houses as you can. I was just talking to someone, um, about they’re in a situation where they’re, they’re, they’re, you know, fine, they’re comfortable in their house. Um, it’s, it’s maybe a little smaller than they want longterm. Uh, you know, have very good equity in the house and they have very good, uh, they’ve built up savings as well. Uh, but making the jump to a house that they really want is going to make the payment, you know, significantly bigger.

[30:17] Um, and I mean, you were just kind of talking about how, um, you know, refinancing is an option, but also just, I mean, the really good point of like the kind of locking in that, that payment, that amount of debt on the dollar that’s never going to be worth as much as it is now, uh, that is a powerful, powerful tool. And if you don’t buy that property, you can’t really take advantage of it. Like, like you could otherwise. And, you know, I had somebody in a good colleague of mine, he had 20, 25 rentals. Um, and you know, in the pandemic, when the interest rates went so low, he refinanced all of them. He wouldn’t have been able to buy 2025 properties with those interest rates being low. Um, so that’s another way of saying you’re absolutely right.

[31:04] And I actually make the exact same metaphor about, you know, it’s just like a tree, you know, the best time was 10 years ago. Um, but next best time is right now and kind of securing that property. I also like to look at securing the like, um, incoming cashflow. If you do turn them into rental, like you’re not seeing everything, you’re not seeing the gross rent. Um, but you kind of control that stream and that’s kind of cool. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, uh, with the Virginia market, like where I’m at, you know, uh, a townhome is 650, a single family home is 750 to a million for like a, a basic four, two colonial, you know, we’re not talking about anything extravagant and, um, it seems high.

[31:46] And I tell people it is high, but if you can afford it, like it’s not going to get cheaper, you know, like prices rarely go down in real estate, like save for Detroit or condos on the water, right? Condos in, in the cities. That’s the first thing that’s going to go down. Luxury homes will go down when the markets turn. But I mean, your cookie cutter, three bedroom, two bathroom, single family homes, there’s just not enough of them. We’re still a few, I think 4 million short of inventory nationwide. You know, um, I don’t see that changing. So, uh, while there are risky classes to get into, I think, you know, your, your single family home is always going to be, you know, a high demand thing that, uh, people won’t read.

[32:28] It’s easy to say 10 years ago was a good deal. It’s hard to say right now is a good deal too. Cause if you’re going to, if you’re going to hold it for five to 10 years, like you’re going to look back and say that was genius, you know? So. Nate, have you, have you seen or picked up on any themes from like Marines or veterans that you’ve worked with or even just talked to about, um, just fears or reservations of investing or that like the permanence of it or, you know, like putting roots down or have you heard anything? Um, I noticed that while Marines see value in owning property, um, one theme is that they, they want to decomplicate their life, uh, upon retirement or separation. Um, so a lot of Marines, I know they want to like own a home and like have it paid off and kind of live off, you know, without any, any issues, uh, tenants and stuff like that is what I mean.

[33:29] Um, but there’s a lot of younger Marines that I’ve been like mentoring, if you will, uh, meeting up with them and talking about their vision and goals. And, and the theme is, um, the future is uncertain. Government is not a sure bet. Um, and they want to get into house hacking and building a portfolio and building passive, you know, income, uh, to take the pressure off of whatever their day job’s going to be. So I see with younger Marines, a big desire to, to get out of their comfort zone and own real estate and be landlords while the older ones are a lot more reserved in wanting to deal with tenants and, and all that. So, uh, that makes a lot of sense, especially those retiring and just wanting the simplicity of, of life and not wanting to deal with anything extra.

[34:18] Yeah. Yeah. So they’ll lend, there’ll be a private lenders. There you go. Yeah. I mean, it’s connected. Invest in syndications too. It could be another option. But, um, yeah, you know, I think, I think there’s something we came from the Dave Ramsey world where we, uh, we’re paying off all our student loans. Um, and, you know, we turned our first house into a rental, but before we did that, we put it on a 15 year mortgage again in that Dave Ramsey world. And since we, since then we kind of feel like we’ve maybe graduated from that a little bit. It might be, I don’t want to call it necessarily finance one-on-one, but, um, I think there’s beauty in getting a little bit more complex with your finances.

[34:56] And one of the things I kick myself for all the time is like the last time we refinanced our house, um, you know, we have like a 2.7 interest rate or something stupid. Um, and the lender was like, do you want to like, you know, try to get more? And I was like, no, I just want to like, I don’t want to make that more. I want to, I just want to have that as low as possible. We’ll get the, you know, everything out that I need and nothing more. And now I’m like, man, if I could have gotten another a hundred thousand dollars or something at seven, what could I do with that? Uh, and how much more could I turn that into? So it’s, yeah, it’s absolutely it has shifted the whole mindset on money and interest rates.

[35:34] Yeah. We both came, I don’t know about you, but our, we both came from parents who did not own multiple properties or didn’t get into the rental business or investments at all. Um, and, and so that was, that was like a big learning curve for us. Did you have somebody teaching you how to do this? No. Um, I feel like my parents, uh, and their generation, I’m going to be real generalized here with the boomers. There’s a lot of, uh, risk adversity. Um, their parents were depression children and there’s risk adversity there and it was handed down. I think learned behavior because when I would talk about some of the things I’m doing, it was always like, yeah, do you really want to be a landlord? And do you really want to like have to fix things when they break and, you know, deal with, you know, tenants, uh, screening and background checks.

[36:23] And like, they were really good at identifying all the problems. And, you know, my inner Marine is like, I’ll figure it out. You know, like, it’s just a situation to figure out. It’s like problem solving one-on-one. It’s what we do. You know, like we’re all going to have like my parents, uh, God bless them. They have problems just like everybody does. Like we have to pick our problems. Like, do you want your problem to be, um, how do you pay your bills or do you want it to be like, how do I figure out my, my tenant, you know, debacle of whatever that is? Cause there’s plenty, you know? Um, so we have to pick our problems. Nobody has a problem for your life. Uh, and I, I choose to have bigger problems cause the payoffs, you see a lot bigger.

[37:03] So, and you usually have more options then as well. When you, um, you know, we, we also deal. We deal with problems with tenants and things like that. Um, we, we did a creative financing deal, um, recently, uh, a couple of years ago, and we finally had a turnover with the tenant, uh, which, uh, was relieving some of the tension, some of the problems that we had, uh, in that unit. Uh, but then also, uh, financially, I mean, we were able to get, uh, $400 more for that unit than we were renting before. And that really turns the corner on how that property overall, uh, turns. And, you know, this past winter when it snowed a lot, um, I was, I was just like, what am I doing? I’m over there, but it’s snow.

[37:46] It’s not performing. And I’m like, I’m going to do this stuff myself. And, um, I’m like, what am I doing? But I, but I, I sat down and I like calculated out the, just the debt payoff and the appreciation on the property alone. And I was like, okay, this is by far the best thing we own. Um, a couple of years. Um, and you know, that’s going to be the, the assets can be performing a lot better and we’re going to have the benefit of a performing asset and the, all the appreciation and debt payoff. So, um, yeah, just got to hang on. That makes me something you said in the beginning makes, makes me think of, um, like a key thing that investors need to remember is that things can be renegotiated. And like we say, we have a plan B, uh, what we deal with investors and raising private money.

[38:34] Uh, we give them the spread, you know, like here’s the target rate of return. Also, if everything goes really bad, we’re going to come to you and tell you, we can’t pay you back right now. And we’re going to figure out a way to restructure our debt to you. And we’ve converted, um, not really out of necessity, but because it made sense, we’ve converted some of our short-term private money. We’ll pay you back in a year at 8% converted that into a long-term note holding, you know, a 30 year AM with like a five year balloon. Um, so having good relationships with investors where they understand your intentions, uh, are to like maximize everybody’s wins. Um, not just ours. Um, that’s built trust. And when we go back to renegotiate, like, Hey, we have a better idea of how, how we should end, end the terms on this.

[39:22] Uh, it’s always been met with, uh, you know, it’s been well received. So. I like that. Nate, I wanted to get into, um, some of your personal side of things a little bit. You don’t, from talking to you today, it doesn’t strike me that you run from a challenge necessarily. You seem to be pretty creative and, and approaching those head on. And before the show, you mentioned you were doing a, was it an ultra marathon? Yeah, I was training for an ultra, you know, five, six hour training runs going over 30 miles when just training runs. So. Okay. So, so dig into like what you get into when you’re not doing the work stuff, exercise, these kinds of things. I know. Um, it’s, it’s really the core of my philosophy.

[40:07] Uh, like you like to focus on the whole of life approach and wellness. Um, I think success, uh, of any endeavor begins with, with fitness, moral fitness, physical fitness, spiritual fitness, you know? Um, I think when you prioritize fitness, you’re managing, um, managing your time, you’re being accountable to yourself, you know? Um, it’s, it’s a very personal thing. Um, it builds confidence and it builds self-esteem. Every time you say, I’m going to go out and I’m going to do this, you know, half marathon with no water when it’s 96 degrees, just to prove that I can like that builds, uh, like a, a belief. It’s the little wins, you know, um, when you follow through with things you say you’re going to do, like when your alarm goes off and you get out of bed, that’s a small win.

[40:58] Um, and I think we, we have a tendency to, um, hit the snooze, uh, to give ourselves breaks to say, well, I’m not going to do this today because I did something yesterday that, you know, is really hard. Um, sometimes you just have to continually do the hard stuff and it doesn’t come easy. It’s not like, you know, people that do this stuff, I, you know, you put them on a pedestal, you know, the David Goggins type people that are getting after it. And he’s a freak of nature, but I, you know, he doesn’t want to do it either. Like, I don’t want to get out and run a lot of times. I don’t want to go down and lift weights, you know, in my little dungeon gym here in my house. Uh, but I do it and it’s always a negotiation.

[41:40] It’s always, you know, uh, I’m trying to trick myself into like doing this. Every time I walk in a kitchen, I am like, do I have some olives and eggs or do I have a whole of cereal because I want the cereal, you know? So, um, stuff doesn’t come easy. It doesn’t come natural. Um, but I think a positive, uh, mental attitude leads to a frame where you believe you can accomplish whatever you set your mind to, um, which leads to execution. Um, and execution is where I think people lack a lot today. Uh, realizing consistency in your actions, um, is a key and not perfection, uh, progress over perfection. You know, I’m not going to be in great shape. I’m 44 years old. I’m not going to be in great shape at 50 from doing a really great workout once a month.

[42:32] But if I can just do 10 minutes or more every day of something, uh, over the next six years, like that’s going to be something, you know? Uh, and people don’t realize that that comes to everything, you know? Um, I’m a problem solver, uh, Marines, Marine officers are trained to identify problems and, and solve them. Uh, so I apply that to my, my life, lifestyle design. I look at like an end state, where’d I want to end up in 10 years? And then I would look at where I’m at now with an honest inventory. And I figure out what are the tensions? What is preventing me from getting to this end state? Um, and those tensions become your focus areas of effort, you know? And so focus areas for me are typically my fitness.

[43:17] Holistic fitness is the number one thing that if I do that consistently every day, I’m going to get to my end state. It’s, it’s constructing a value system. Um, success is not an end state with a picket fence and a house and whatever, right? It’s not a number in your bank account. Success is a way of, of living. It’s a mindset and when you understand what your values are to me, um, and your values for me are, are, they’re aligned to, you know, the physical fitness and my nutrition and my health and wellness and my children, my family, you know, um, my career. Uh, if I’m doing things every day that satisfy my values, then I go to bed realizing that I had a successful day. You know, if, if I have a day where I would just sit around on the couch and eat junk food and ignore my, my children and not answer emails for my work, you know, I would feel like crap at the end of the day.

[44:14] I’d have anxiety, you know, unstructured free time is terrible for me. Um, and it’s not because I’m not productive. It’s because I’m thinking like, what should I be doing? It’s my highest and best use of time. Uh, so I don’t watch TV, um, occasional football. I’ll watch, you gotta have something. Uh, but it really is identifying what your value system is and trying to do something every day towards that. Even it’s just one little line of scripture. Like, I feel like I did some, some connecting there. Um, make my kids put their phones down and hang out with dad for a few minutes, you know, um, see how bad I can annoy them in 10 minutes. And like, I’ve done something with the family, you know, so it is really just a daily consistent actions.

[44:55] I think that, uh, can help help you feel successful, uh, while you’re on your journey, because we have a tendency to fixate on what we think the end should be. And we lose, we lose a sight of today. And today’s where we struggle. You know, today is hard. Today has, you know, the random phone call that didn’t go your way or, you know, a deal fell through or an investor had a question or whatever it is. Um, and, and you’re got your heads in the clouds about like my, you know, 50 door portfolio or whatever that is and passive income sitting on the beach kind of stuff. And today just feels like I’m not doing that. So I’m not winning. And you have to like reframe it where, uh, if you’re taking care of business today, an alignment with your values, you’re winning and you’ll get there.

[45:43] You’ll get to what your end state is. I believe you can, you can get there. You manifest that. You have to believe in it and you have to, you have to, uh, knock down a small wins. So, sorry, rambling. No, that’s, that’s very well said. Stay hard. Yeah.

[46:02] I was just sitting here thinking like, it just takes so many, I always feel like success is in the details, you know, but it’s so many of those micro decisions about how to approach all these different relationships in time and, um, that make you successful. Um, and I, I was wondering too, now I, I can, you and I talked about this a little bit before I’m post meniscus surgery, eight weeks. I think at this point it has been like by far, I mean, it was physically difficult being on crutches and we have three little kids right now. Our youngest is two and, and it was just like extremely stressful for our family. But I think even like above and beyond the physical side, cause, cause I could adjust, you know, I like, I had my crutches and I had a rolling cart that I pushed around very slowly and like put things on it.

[46:57] But, but more so for me, it was like, it was mentally was really stressful and hard. You know, I was recovering as I should have been, but it was just slow and feeling like, um, I could just get up and do whatever I could do that day without feeling like I should be doing something different or more was really hard. And so I’m just curious how your injury is, you have a similar, um, how that’s been affecting you. Well, when I can’t run, I have to change what I put in my mouth because, uh, I can’t eat as much, you know? Um, and that, that changes a lot. Like diets, a huge thing, you know? Um, and if you don’t get the enough of the right kinds of foods, it can just set you on the wrong path. So I try to fuel myself efficiently.

[47:46] Um, I’m not going to gain weight while I can’t run. Um, uh, you build efficiencies, you figure out like, how do I get the most out of this trip downstairs? It’s a little things, attention to details, like you said. Um, but that’s all good rehearsal for being an investor, you know, being an agent where details matter, you know, especially if you’re handling, handling transactions for other people, like the details matter to a high level. So when you have challenges like, like a torn meniscus, uh, a bad back or whatever you’re dealing with, um, try to find appreciation for the details because it’s honing you, it’s making you better. And that’s going to translate into your professional work as well.

[48:29] Um, we have a tendency to get in our heads about a lot of things. And I’m always trying to look on the bright side, always trying to see like, what is the higher, better purpose of this? Like this, this bad thing that happened, how can I spin it in my mind into a good thing? Um, and that’s just kind of been a way that I try to handle things. Um, also I don’t, I don’t allow myself excuses. Uh, I teach my kids, uh, I have three, three as well. Um, but they’re so much easier at 13, 15 and 17. Um, it’s just me and them. Yeah. It is. Cause I mean, you can expect them to do things and make them do things and take their phones when they don’t do things. So, um, you know, they can make their own breakfast.

[49:14] It’s great. You know, sometimes they cook dinner for me and it’s amazing. They make an absolute mess and it’s awful, but whatever. I still do too. Um, but I teach them, you know, in a way to give them agency, like, uh, find your ownership and everything. Uh, I, I show them like, if I get rear ended at a red light, um, it’s not my fault. You know, um, it’s legally not my fault. I’m not responsible for someone rendering me. Um, but when I come up to a red light, I do give myself space to maneuver my vehicle and I check my rear view mirror. And if I see a car coming fast, I can move out of the way. It’s not my fault if I get hit, but I have a responsibility to myself to put myself in a, in a position of, of advantage and then not to, to try to, you know, uh, mitigate any kind of, uh, outside forces on my life.

[50:15] Um, so while it’s not my fault, if I get rear ended, I got to look at what’s my role. If I do get rear ended, was there something I could have done? So I’m always trying to teach them, find your role in everything. Life’s not fair and things are going to happen that are not fair. What could you have done to maybe change that, the outcome of that incident? Uh, and I think by teaching that you, you build in them a sense of, um, control. They have agency. Uh, they realize that they can create the day that they want. They can create the life that they want. They’re not the whims of the universe. Things isn’t, they’re not happening to them. They’re just happening. And you have to always be kind of, uh, creating the circumstances around you, hanging out with good people, making good choices, eating good things.

[50:57] You know, uh, it’s not your fault that you had sick, but could you have done better? Could you have, you know, wash your hands more, eaten healthier foods? You know, um, I’m always trying to, to force that internal look introspection and it’s not to like hate on yourself. It’s just to try to try to have ownership. And I think that you’ve hit two points, uh, that are fundamental, like mindset switches that if people do, um, they will be happier and more successful. Um, one of those is be having like that total ownership that you just talked about. I think that’s huge. And I think it’s often these, both of these things are things that people kind of are assume is going to be the opposite if they do it.

[51:37] So like thinking that you take control of everything makes it, you fearful that you’re not good enough, that you’re not adequate, that you’re going to be fail a failure. Um, and so it’s easier to blame others and the outside circumstances because you’re afraid that you’re not enough. But what you find is that when you do it, um, you then control your life, you take control of your life and then you start doing the things that are needed to be successful because you take control of it. Um, the second one is, um, the, the, the whole idea of like lying on a beach, like you mentioned that, you know, drinking, uh, mojitos or whatever, uh, that’s like the dream. That’s like the goal of like, you know, when you, when you’re rich and successful and you’ve made it, like you can just go and, you know, lay on the beach all day and drink mojitos or whatever.

[52:20] Um, but in the process of trying to get there, you realize that the discipline is what gives you the freedom. And that’s exactly opposite of that, of that, of that goal, that vision you might have. Um, so I guess that would lead me to the question, how do you see yourself retiring? How do you see yourself with that mindset, with that understanding, being able to actually enjoy life, relax, or just slow down? That’s yeah. Um, I don’t have a slow down button. I don’t think I wouldn’t be happy. Uh, you know, the pursuit’s not money for me, uh, though I want to have an outsized impact. So money’s important. Uh, it’s just not the prime motivator, the prime motivators to, to have that impact. You know, um, I really enjoy helping people, uh, and helping people make original mistakes and not repeat mistakes.

[53:19] Um, I always listen to people smarter than me. Uh, it’s why I am where I am. Like there’s a lot of smart people that I listened to. Uh, and it serves me well. I don’t, I don’t, uh, I don’t know what’s next. Um, as far as when I retire from the Marine Corps in the next three to five years. Uh, but I’m definitely going to be involved with, with mentoring. Uh, I have a passion for mentoring teenagers, uh, to help them kind of figure out like lifestyle design. What do they want while, while they’re really early and can get, you know, I wish I knew this stuff, you know, 20, 30 years ago. Holy, holy moly. I don’t know where I’d be. Uh, but thank God I figured it out now, you know, um, I enjoy reaching out and helping people problem solve.

[54:04] Uh, you know, I, I do it for friends. I do it for family. I do it for, uh, uh, other people’s businesses. Uh, they’ll reach out with a problem and I’ll spend, you know, a block of four or five hours going over how I think the problem should be approached. So I always tell the kids, you want to make money, learn how to solve big problems. The bigger the problems, the more money you get paid and life is full of problems. So at the end of the day, like pick the problems you want to solve and move towards that. You know, I have some big lofty, uh, you know, goals in the future for things I’d like to, to drill down on. Some are, you know, social issues with, with, uh, teenagers, you know, boys and other things are like foreign policy issues, you know, and I’d like to dig in on a lot of things.

[54:48] So I don’t see me slowing down. I don’t see me owning a lot of properties. I would probably transition to like being a private lender, a hard money lender. Um, cause I don’t want to manage the people right now. Um, but things change, you know, uh, seasons investing. And I thought I’d want to have like, you know, a hundred doors and I realized, you know, I don’t want to have a hundred doors right now. We’re developing some properties. I like that, but I don’t want to do that, uh, forever. So, uh, I’m always going to be looking at big, bigger problems to solve though. Yeah, no, it’s true. I I’m asking the question partly because it’s a, it’s one, I don’t know either. Like I, I addicted to, um, the pursuit and the, the, the work.

[55:33] Um, and I think it’s a good thing. I think, I think that what you, what you, what you pursue and what you work on can change and shift. And I think it naturally does as you get older, um, and slow down, but, um, it’s, yeah, it’s something that I, I’m not sure exactly what that would look like either. Yeah. You did say one of my favorite things. You said that discipline equals freedom. Um, and I don’t know if that was accidental, but it’s Jocko. Yeah. Yeah. I have the flag, you know, above my, my workout bench. So, uh, it’s such a good thing. It’s so hard, but it’s true. Yeah. Like the, when you, when you really let that sink in, um, it’s just so true. Like it’s usually the lack of discipline that makes you feel constrained.

[56:17] Um, yeah. Or it gives you anxiety. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, uh, you know, I had a bunch of listings. Kind of a different stages of, of like getting them ready. Like lots of work before the listings went live. Um, and I was stressed, very, very stressed. And it wasn’t until I disciplined myself and sat down and wrote all the different stages out and kind of put a timeline together on each of them. Um, and sat down to review that every week, um, that I felt more relaxed about it. So yeah, it’s, it’s, uh, processes. Yeah. The irony of this, I feel like is, I don’t know if either one of you or me would feel completely satisfied on a beach with a mojito. So, uh, I mean, maybe for like an hour, I don’t know.

[56:59] Yeah. I would do an hour after dinner, go for a walk, have a mojito or something. That’d be great. But I mean, then I’m going to get after it. Right. Um, well, I have to ask if you, um, if from our conversation, if you have any kind of golden nuggets or just golden nuggets you’d like to live by, uh, that you would want to share to our listeners. It could be for people wanting to get into, um, real estate investing agents. It could be, uh, for, you know, other veterans. Yeah. Uh, I do. Uh, this is great. Thank you for teeing it up. Uh, my mother raised me to assume good intentions in others. Uh, assume good intentions behind their words, uh, their actions or inactions or behaviors. Um, it served me well because oftentimes we see a text message or an email and it’s easy to, uh, assume a tone and get defensive or their cortisol builds up the stress hormone, which is really bad for you.

[57:57] Not so much for them. So we’re punishing ourselves when we ascribe bad intentions to someone’s words or actions. Uh, oftentimes people are, are doing the best that they can. Um, and so I’m always trying to clarify my intention when I say things, when I do things, when I tell the kids why something has to be a certain way, I explain my intentions. Uh, and I’m, you know, when I have coworkers, they get upset about an email. I’m like, try to reframe the email that they’re reading. Like, did you think that they maybe meant it this way or may, you know, try to just take the edge off. Uh, cause usually we’re not trying to upset each other in our daily interactions, you know, and like my inner Jersey, I’m driving on a highway and someone cuts me off, you know, and I want to like use the horn fluently like a New Jersey driver would.

[58:44] Uh, but like, that’s what’s going to raise my cortisol. It’s going to make me upset. My heart rate’s going to race. I’m not going to be as good of a driver for a minute while I’m preoccupied. I can also think like, Hey, benefit it out. Maybe they’re going, you know, to see a loved one in the hospital or maybe they have a hurt pet in the back, you know, and then you say a little prayer that he get there safe. And right there, like all the aggravations released, you know, it’s just like, okay. So, I mean, assuming good intentions, I believe is like the foundation of how people should strive to operate, you know, and I’m not perfect. Like there’s times when I will lay on the horn, but you’re an idiot, you know, I’m human.

[59:23] Um, did that yesterday. Yeah. It happens. But, um, living with gratitude, starting your day with gratitude, realizing, um, uh, you know, today, the value of today as a gift of the present. Um, sometimes I, I go, you know, and this is not a me things. I think I heard it in a podcast, you know, think of 80 year old you and what that person would, what you would do to come back and relive this day, you know, an 80 year old with, you know, however much wealth would probably trade at all to go back to the age you are now and have your, your two year old and your little ones in the house, you know, and, and be able to relive the chaos that is life right now. Right. Um, because you have all this time ahead of you.

[1:00:11] So don’t take for granted the gift of the present, right? It’s cliche, but I mean, it really is true. So you have to have the inner gratitude, I believe as a foundation, um, treating people well, building genuine connections. That is, uh, the cornerstone of being a good agent, a good investor, a good lender, um, treating people, trying to find a win-win solutions, trying to understand people’s actual situations. Why are they buying this house? Why are they doing this investment? Um, you’re going to be able to connect at a more human level and build trust and build confidence in each other. And then who knows where that goes? Like I have fishing buddies, I have car buddies, I have sailing buddies that all came from, you know, good deals or bad deals.

[1:00:58] Even, uh, we bond over misery sometimes. Yes. Um, and when I tell my kids, uh, to wrap this up, um, you know, there’s three things that every first grader can understand. Um, there are three things that, uh, are super simple, but extremely hard in execution. You know, don’t consume more than you need and, you know, don’t be fat, right? Like be healthy physically. Don’t spend more of your own money than you make. So don’t be poor and then be charitable, be charitable with your time and resources and give none of those things come naturally. We want to, we want to eat the good food. We want to spend everything, right? Want to buy the things. Um, and we don’t want to give our money away. So they’re not really, um, uh, intuitive.

[1:01:45] It was not like natural. So it takes exercise to do those three things. But if you do those three things, I think you’ll have a pretty, a pretty happy and successful life. You won’t be fat. You won’t be poor and you’ll be a good human. So I love it. You got, you got some wisdom. Uh, this is, it’s great. Um, are there any fundamental books that you would suggest, uh, people read that, or just one that you’re maybe enjoying right now? Um, yes. Um, two phenomenal books and they’re not typical for like real estate reading. And, you know, anybody’s listening to real estate podcasts have heard all the same book recommendations over and over and over. There’s a ton of great ones out there. Um, but the first one is the extreme ownership by Jocko.

[1:02:30] Um, again, that’s finding your role in everything, having agency and realizing that you have the control to change your outcomes. Um, and then the book on mental toughness by Andy Frisilla. Um, I’m a huge Andy Frisilla, 75 hard. Okay. It’s a lifestyle thing. Uh, it’s a challenge that is a lifestyle. Um, and the book on mental toughness is really about, uh, facing your challenges, facing adversity and, and being a good human and overcoming, overcoming whatever comes at you. Problem solving. It comes down to all of that. So a lot of what I’ve talked about, but the book on mental toughness is it’s a newer book as well. And it’s written in like sized 18 font. So like people, my eyes can read it.

[1:03:12] Yeah, it’s great. It’s great. I want to pick that one up. I, you know, I think that, you know, in, in one of the, one of the, you talked about exercise and like kind of having discipline and how nobody wants to do it, et cetera. And one of the life hacks I’ve found is joining a class. So, you know, we’re CrossFitters that, that like helps you get that community. It helps give you the accountability. It helps give you that motivation to keep showing up. And that’s, it’s, it aids you. It’s a lot easier to me than to go out and run, um, six hours. Yes. Agreed. But I, I’ve noticed in, in those workouts and those really tough moments, um, like I’ve often felt like I don’t have that mental toughness.

[1:03:52] I don’t have that. Like, you know what, you know, David Goggins, I think says that like most people give up when they’re only like, you know, when they have like 70% more, they could go or something. Right. Like that. Remember the exact number. Um, but I just feel like I don’t have that thing that, that I can switch in my brain. So, Hey, I want to read that book. Um, but B I do feel like maybe outsiders would see, not relate to, or not see me that way. Um, and I think it’s probably, again, just one of those things that as you keep building, as you keep growing, as you keep working on those things, you get better and better at it the other day. Um, we had this, uh, qualifier workout, even realized it was a qualifier workout, uh, last Friday, actually.

[1:04:31] And the only time I could work out was at like nine ish. And I had to go by myself. Um, and it was miserable. It was almost gave up because it was, um, it was 15, uh, clean and jerks at 150 or 155 pounds into 90 wall balls of 20 pounds into 15 more clean and jerks. Uh, and so I got like five in at one 55 and I was like, this is going to be horrible. Um, and honestly, like probably the main reason I didn’t stop was like, I was like, you do this, you need to be more tough. You need to push through this, this, this, just getting through this workout, no matter what time you get is going to build that muscle, build that discipline, uh, that commitment to yourself, like you talked about as well. And, um, my time wasn’t great, but I did it.

[1:05:22] Yeah. And that’s important. Yeah. Yeah. I’m gonna read that one. I actually did a, uh, I had a deliberate phase in my life. I was a Sergeant. This is back in like 2008, 2009, where I was like, I’m going to build my mental toughness. And I would deliberately like psych myself out. Like we, we know ourselves better than anybody. Like you, you feel like, you know, you don’t have that toughness. Uh, you know, I’m surrounded by 18 to 25 year old young men and women that are like athletes, you know? So I feel like I’m out of shape. You know, I’m clearly not when you look at the average 44 year old, you know, we just know ourselves and we’re our toughest critics. Right. Um, but I would go through, uh, I went through a year and a half of, um, towards the end of a workout.

[1:06:10] I would think of something that I really didn’t want to do it. And then I’d have to just do it. So if I did a, a three mile run with a plate carrier and then like a hundred ammo can presses, I would finish that and like, it’d really suck to do like a thousand yard high crawl, you know, or do another three miles with a plate carrier or like just double it up, you know? And so like it was once a week on Fridays, uh, you know, I punished myself to then indulge in things. I shouldn’t have on the weekend, bad food and alcohol younger. Uh, but yeah, I mean, I would, I would finish a workout or get halfway through a workout and I’m negotiating with myself. Like, you know, I’m, I’m on round two of five.

[1:06:48] Maybe I should cut it short of three rounds. Cause this is a, this is brutal, you know, and it’s hot out and I have things to do. And that’s when I laugh. And I know like, this is going to be a good workout at five. So I’m going to do six rounds, you know, and do that extra round. If you do that extra round, you start to build a mental toughness that will, it will surprise you. You’ll realize you have a lot more, you’ll value yourself a lot more. You’ll be like, man, I can get after this, you know? So psych yourself out sometimes, add an extra rep, add an extra round. I always tell myself suck less, you know? Well, and that feeling you get when you do it, when you push through, um, is so good.

[1:07:25] And, and that’s what people need to understand. That’s why we’re talking about like the whole discipline. Um, equals freedom. That is just, it makes you feel so much better to, to, to accomplish it versus if you do give in and do give yourself that excuse. You just don’t, you know, you may not feel horrible right away, but you’re going to have a way different feeling if you, if you’ve actually, yeah, gone harder than, uh, you actually went out to. I love that. I’m just going to say real quick, I was just thinking what you guys talking about these workouts. Um, I’m almost having to do the, the opposite to give that mental toughness where I would really love to go really hard, but the, the mental exercise for me is to lower the intensity intentionally and to get really comfortable there.

[1:08:12] Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that it’s, it’s like the opposite end of the spectrum, but it’s also like this, uh, mental stress. Yeah. It’s a discipline. It takes that. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I see people all the time that go too hard and they get injured and I’m like, dude, like stop that cycle of injury, like workout smarter. You know, uh, it takes discipline to work out smart as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good point. Um, if people are interested in, in learning more about you or, or hearing more of your, uh, your wisdom, is there a good place to follow you, uh, or to get a loan from you? Yeah. I mean, I’m not super active on social. Um, my, you know, Justin, uh, my business partner is always trying to get me on it.

[1:08:53] Uh, real estate Nate underscore TPI is my Instagram. I also have a fitness one. It’s average dad underscore stay fit. So, um, I, I do post some things on there. I put some workouts on there. Uh, I’m going to start putting some more lending content on the real estate one. Uh, so if people want to connect, I do check it. And, uh, I’m always down to, to talk, talk shop, talk fitness or whatever. So cool. So get your, get your teenagers to start managing your socials. I know, I know I should.

[1:09:29] I need, I think my eight year old might be able to, uh, do that. Um, it’s amazing. But no, thanks so much.

[1:09:40] Uh, thanks so much for being on here. This has been a really good conversation. I really enjoyed it. Oh, thanks for having me. You both are great. I love what you’re doing. Um, I, I weaned myself off the bigger pockets a little while ago. So, uh, I found a new home with you guys and with, uh, David Green over on his show. So yeah, you’re great. Awesome. Thank you, Nate. Yeah. It’s been so fun. Thanks for the conversation. Thanks for listening to the REI agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week. Visit REIAgent.com for more content. Until next time, keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy.

[1:10:18] It is intended for entertainment purposes only.