From Burnout to Buyouts: Escaping the 9 to 5 and Building Your Own Financial Empire with Gus Ofili

[0:00] Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matias, an agent and investor. And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let’s do it.

[0:24] Welcome back to the REI Agent. It’s just Matias. Today we had a little graduation celebration. So my middle child is getting out of the daycare that we’re at. We are at a local university, has a young child program. Shout out to JMU YCP. And they do a phenomenal job in general. Our daughter has been there for, this is second year now. She graduated from the program. She’s still going to be there in summer school so it wasn’t like, you know, crying and hugging teachers that they’ll never see them again. But she’ll be there through the summer. But then she gets to go to, you know, her elementary school, which is just, you know, kind of crazy to think about. We’re about to go out and grab ice cream.

[1:08] And then my littlest, he also got to perform. He didn’t have like a graduation ceremony, but he got to perform a couple songs. He was just standing there like a deer in the headlights, just like, what is happening, sucking his thumb. And then I went to get him afterwards and it just took him like 20 minutes of just like, what was going on? What is that feeling? I don’t know what stage fright is. I’ve never had that before. But I think at the end of the day, he was back to himself in a couple minutes and enjoyed the thrill of it maybe. But yeah, we also, Eric and I just got back from Austin. We were at a conference. REI Summit Conference, learning about investing more. And, you know, it was a really fun time.

[1:57] We got to go a couple of days early to explore the city a little bit. And then we had the conference itself and really enjoyed it. One of the things that we came back with was we’ve been kind of intentional about, or I’ve been intentional about my life in kind of general. Being, you know, focused on various things in the business. But trying to be intentional with our life as well. But we came back kind of motivated to actually kind of apply some of the things you do in business to our family. Trying to have like a vision, values, mission statement, that kind of stuff. And we’re really eager to see how that implements into our lives. So we spent a good amount of time crafting as much as we could before we got really burned out.

[2:53] We spent, you know, a good three, four hours on the way home working on that. That was Wednesday. This is a Friday. Working on those values and missions and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, the next challenge is trying to see how that all comes up with our kids. I think we’re going to try to get them involved in a conversation a little bit in general. The youngest one probably will just be throwing rocks or eating dirt or something while we have this conversation. But maybe at least the oldest one will have some things to contribute. And we’ll do our best to try to make these big ideas bite-sized for the kids. And actually we use Chat CPT, haven’t finished the process, but we use Chat CPT to kind of like create two different.

[3:40] So if we have like a category, like let’s say total ownership is one of the categories of our values we want to give to our kids. Following through with what you say you will, being honest, that kind of stuff. Owning your life so that, you know, you’re not playing a victim, you’re not blaming others.

[4:01] We kind of made the big flowery word version and then we asked Chat CPT to actually translate that into something that a younger kid could understand, into easier concepts. And it did pretty well. So I think there’s definitely room there when you’re thinking of those big concepts. And I like to, man, I want to give our kids speeches.

[4:27] They are not old enough for these speeches yet, but I want to give them. And anyway, so I hadn’t thought of that use of Chat CPT yet, how I can translate these big concepts to kids. And so I’m excited about what that looks like. I think we’re going to have vacations coming up or we’re going to have like some dedicated time to really going through these, getting their input as well, explaining these different visions or values and the mission statement and vision. And just, I am encouraged to see how that really impacts their life going forward and how that imprints them. Because I think when you have some clear guidelines, some clear boundaries and some clear reasons why, that can really inform the relationships you have going forward as they’re older, the way you treat others, the way your character develops.

[5:28] And a lot of the times I’ve been concerned, I’ve been worried about how what I do with building wealth or having assets, all that kind of stuff, will that hurt my kids long term? Will that be something that they actually will be worse off from having that? Will they not be motivated? Will they, what will that do to them? And so I think this really spoke to me as a way to try to instill some of those core values. I think another one that I really appreciated was having this kind of growth mindset, but also just being passionate, like pursuing stuff that you’re passionate about. It’s such an unfulfilled life if you are never pursuing what you’re passionate about. If you are the proverbial just drinking cocktails on the beach, if that’s all you do, that’s just depressing.

[6:26] And I think, yes, vacations are nice. There’s a place for that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, the real fulfillment, the real enjoyment comes from flow, from relationships, deep relationships, and from just being passionate about stuff. So anyway, we’re excited about that. We’ll probably talk about that more in the future. But anyway, we have Gus O’Filly today. Gus is a tunnel vision person. He said that himself. And very impressive, very impressive. He took the burn the fleet approach in getting into real estate. There’s something that I discuss with people often and contemplate as to what to recommend. I don’t think there’s a one size fits all approach. But Gus went out and said, I’m going to be a real estate agent, put in his two weeks notice, and got after it, and is a success story for that.

[7:26] And I think a lot of that fire was needed or just fueled how hard he was going to work. And we talk about how my approach was different. It was a different time. Market was different. There’s different factors there. There’s not a one size fits all. But I think when you contemplate making a move like that, it’s helpful to hear other people’s experiences and why and how they did what they did so that you can make a decision what scenario fits right for you in your situation. So part of that can be if you want to buy a house, having two years of experience in a real estate, the income from real estate is required before you can count it for a mortgage. So there’s a few different factors there.

[8:10] But obviously, he is killing it in sales. He was killing it in sales. He talks about how he is more focused on investing now. But he’s a perfect guest for the show because he marries the two and kind of explains how to be successful in both. So without further ado, let’s get Gus on the show.

[8:36] Welcome back to the REI Agent. I’m here with Gus O’Filly. Gus, thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Now, Gus, tell me a little bit about your backstory. You’re pretty perfect for this show. You’re both an agent and an investor. Is that correct? Yes, that’s correct. Yeah. Tell me how you got into real estate. So yeah, I’m going to start from the beginning. And this is kind of like everyone’s kind of story at the beginning is I’m working my regular nine to five out of college. I jumped right into Bank of America. It was a call center at Bank of America. We deal with the credit cards. I got there. I wasn’t able to really find jobs right out of college. So this is my entry level into a Fortune 500 company.

[9:22] Once I got there, I kind of took off within the company as an employee, not on the management level. So I start selling a lot. The whole object of the job was to go ahead and do balance transfers and open new credit cards to people. So I was with the company within three years. I become in a lead role. And what I started to notice in that lead role is I’m ready to become a manager now. I’m ready to run the whole shop. And anytime there was opportunities for me to go ahead and have that position, I would go ahead and interview. And I was told, oh, this is why you didn’t get in. This is why you didn’t get it. So after three, four times, I’m like, is this ever going to happen? And I think one of the biggest things for me that a light switched in my head was when I would see the managers, they would try to keep me at bay.

[10:20] And what I mean keep me at bay is this guy doesn’t do it like how everyone else does it. He likes to kind of do his own thing. And it’s not the normal way we do it. So when I would think of creative ideas to keep a team that I’m looking over, focus on the job, it would be something that no one does. They would tell the unit manager what I’m doing. And he would bring me in my office. He says, Gus, that’s a great idea, but this is not how it’s supposed to be. You’re supposed to be like this. And also, Gus, you got to start creating relationships with the managers. How can I put you there? And I’m thinking, I’m like, isn’t it about production? Isn’t it about what my team is doing to make me get in these positions?

[11:07] Why do I have to be best friends with everyone? Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but I’m an introvert. And I’m kind of a loner. I’ve been like that for as far as I can remember. And I only let a certain amount of people in my circle. So as time went on, a second thing happened. I was on a phone call, it was a manager call. Even though I’m not a manager, I was able to take manager calls. It was an older individual who was in a tight situation as far as money. And then when I was looking, we were able to look at their accounts and things like that. She was on retirement. And I’m like, dang, that’s all they get for retirement? And then, so this is a person who worked all their life. And now they’re at the point where, in my opinion, they should be enjoying it.

[11:51] That’s what people at the bank, a lot of them were close to retirement. And they would talk about it. I’m like, that doesn’t sound like something I want to be in. So for the strength of that, my wife now, but my girlfriend at the time, her brother-in-law owned a title company. And she was like, hey, have you ever thought about being a real estate agent? Maybe you could do that on the side. And I was like, no, I never thought about it. She’s like, you could talk to my brother-in-law about it. So I had lunch with him. We started talking about it. I was like, all right, this sounds like something interesting. It sounds like something I could do on the side. So I took the class, and the class is what got me.

[12:32] Had a great professor who taught us the class. And he didn’t teach us the textbook way. Of course, you have to teach that stuff for us to ask. He would bring up his experiences, and we would ask questions about it. And I was like, oh, wow. You know, this sounds like something I want to do. And then he said a key thing. If you want to be successful, and you want to make money as a real estate agent, you’re going to have to do this 100%. He said that people that do this part-time, they miss a phone call, and that call goes on to someone else. Then I’m thinking, I’m working this job, and we can’t even bring our phones onto the floor. So if I’m becoming a real estate agent, people reach out to me.

[13:16] I don’t have a way to pick up the phone. And I was talking to my wife now. But I was talking to her. I was like, I think I want to quit my job. And then she’s like, let’s do it. Let’s do it. And I’m like, OK. The biggest fan that I got, she’s down with it. I got two younger brothers. I talked to them. I talked to my parents. And I thought about it. I’m like, what I’m going to do is I’m going to clear out my 401K, and I’m going to bank on myself. But before I do that, I reached out to all the local real estate agencies around my area. I met with them all. So I kind of started creating this buzz a little bit about myself because I did well in these one-on-one meetings. And the follow-up I had is I want to speak to an agent that’s been here for one year.

[14:06] So every person broker I spoke to, I wanted to speak to an agent that’s been here for one year. I sat back. The agents. And I was like this. Oh, and I’m very competitive. So sometimes that’s a big flaw in my character. But if this person could do it, I can definitely do this. That was the thing that reassured me. So at the bank, I let them know, hey, I’m putting in my two weeks. They were like, Gus, you got a bright future here. I’m like, I appreciate it. But I’m going to go ahead and try to do this real estate agent thing. And they were like, well, at least do your two weeks. So if it doesn’t work, I’m able to come back. I did it. But I knew I wasn’t coming back. So I cashed out my 401K. And I started my journey as far as being a real estate agent.

[14:52] That’s awesome. You brought me right back. I worked in customer service, customer care in Rosetta Stone for a little bit.

[15:04] I mean, in some ways, I enjoyed aspects of it. But I think the job itself is probably one of the worst fits I’ve ever had. But yeah, it just brought me back to why I love being able just to do what I want when I want.

[15:21] Maybe that’s scary to some people. Maybe they just don’t have that excitement about chasing things down and being self-motivated. But oh, man, I couldn’t go back now. It would be so hard to go back to having that bureaucracy, that different levels of management, the exact formula of how you’re supposed to do things. And oh, man, that just brings back memories. One thing I knew, I was a workaholic.

[15:53] You get three weeks vacation, and then you get like, no, it was two weeks vacation. And somehow it worked. It was a month with vacation and sick time. I would never take vacation. I would never be sick. And I worked a crap load of overtime. So I’m already a workaholic. So come December, I’m taking the whole month off because I have to, or I lose the time for the next year. My brother’s like, Gus, you do that. And how much money are you making the bank? Probably a lot. How much are you getting of that money? My brother’s already an entrepreneur, so he already knows this. Imagine taking all that time and effort, and you put it into your own business, how much you get from return. Yeah, bro, it makes sense.

[16:39] Yeah, no, it’s so true. It’s so true. That’s interesting. You talked about the whole going all in, burn the fleet, sink or swim model. It’s definitely something that I think, A, it really depends on what job you’re doing and how compatible it is. It sounds like yours would not have been at all. When I started real estate myself, I was in a high school working as like a behavior specialist. And I got off about at three o’clock. I was able to answer emails and texts throughout the day as I needed. And sometimes if I could, I would go sneak a call out, take a call outside when I needed to. And then I had summers off. So to me, it felt like it was fairly conducive. And also, I just had that, this is what I’m doing.

[17:28] I’m so focused. I’m getting up at 5 a.m. every morning, and I’m cranking out as much as I can before work. And just completely committed to it. Be pre-kids, you know, when I could have a little bit more time. But I guess all it’s to say is you think,

[17:44] if in a different occupation, do you think you would have gone back and done it more gradually? Or you think that was the right call or just jumping right in? As easy as this, because it’s already happened for me, it was the right call. 100% I think it was the right call for me. Now, I think everyone’s situation is different. Once again, when that instructor told me, you’ll lose business if you’re doing anything else. And I was like, all right, I’m all in. I got to go. And I think, and you know this, taking risk is where you get the biggest reward. And that was like my first risk, because I’m at a job for seven and a half years. There’s no real risk in that. That’s automatic money. Now, if I’m going to do something, I’m going to change my life and leave a job.

[18:30] I’ve already set the groundwork for, it’s got to be for something way bigger. And I had to take that risk. And it seemed like it may have paid out a little bit. Yeah, no. And I think another thing that helps, or is another factor to consider, is market cycles. Because in 2014, when I started, things were pretty slow. It was a buyer’s market, and things are pretty slow overall. I probably would have done a little bit better, but I think the first two years, I made like $15,000 gross. And I had other colleagues that started around the same time as me. And they may have done a little bit better than me, but not significantly. And at the time, we were definitely focused on paying off our debts. That was like the number one priority.

[19:16] But all that to say is, market cycles is another factor. Then another thing I talk about, too, is if you are an agent that doesn’t own a house, and you’re thinking that you want to buy a house pretty quickly, jumping right into being a real estate agent, will, even if you make a ton of money, unless you make enough money to buy it cash, this might not be able to work out with financing, because you’ve got to have two years of proven income in that field. So there’s just a couple factors that make it, or to weigh, if you’re kind of debating that situation. Yeah, those are all valid things. At the time, so I moved in, so me and my wife weren’t living together at the time. I move into her place. She owns her place.

[20:01] Even though she owned her place, I don’t know if this is going to sound bad, but I’m going to say it anyways.

[20:08] I was a man moving into my wife’s place, or my girlfriend at the time’s place. I got a bad ego.

[20:18] I come from a household where it wasn’t like that. So that was another battery in my back. And it wasn’t the biggest case. It was kind of a condo. And I felt claustrophobic in there. So I was like, I need to get my family out of there. And you know how, once you get kids, that reps it up a little bit more. So it was layers on top of, I got to win. And there’s no way of losing. There is no plan B. This is it. And that was my mentality. Yeah, that was the exact same mentality I had for different reasons. And I think that is, it’s okay to have doubt and everything like that. But when you just know, this is going to be the route. And there’s just no other option. And you just do everything that you know you’re supposed to do, right?

[21:06] And you go out and get it. So how did your first year go? So I ended up starting at the end of 2018. I think I may have, I want to say I started like October, September, October. I did three transactions in December. But then my first full year, so I guess, you know, how my brokerage works, your first full year is your rookie year. So my first year, I ended up doing 50 transactions. Now this is pre-kids. This is me going ballistic. So, you know, do you mind if I get into? Yeah, go. This is okay. So what the first year is, what it entailed was, I’m at the office 24-7. I’m at the office 24-7. The reason why I’m at the office, we have this thing called phone time. So I wasn’t able to get phone time because I was brand new.

[22:01] So I guess you got to sell a certain amount, whether it be five or 10. I can’t remember what it was. So, you know, the older agents would do phone time. But what I did is I set up shop right next to the reception’s desk that would get the calls. So I’m in there, you know, great sense of humor, making people laugh, this and that. As soon as the agents don’t show up for their thing, guess who’s getting those calls? I’m getting those calls. So I was like, all right, so that’s one avenue. Next avenue, I’m going to every single agent, no matter if there’s a biggest agent or the smallest agent, I’m knocking on their door and like, hey, I’m willing to do open houses. I’m willing to do, put signs up.

[22:40] I’m willing to do anything that you need. Just let me know I’m here for it. Why? Why I can do some of those things? Because I cashed out my 401k and I got a little, you know, this is the stuff you’re putting money, like the gas to go do this stuff. I’m putting that 401k money to work to be able to impress these agents that are already in the game so they can give me a bone. Well, you know, whether I do the open houses, sometimes people didn’t show up, but then sometimes people did show up. And when they did show up, that’s my time to go ahead and convince them. Another thing I did was Zillow. Everyone’s like, don’t do Zillow. And, you know, I see I’m in some agent groups on Facebook. Zillow is a killer of real estate.

[23:18] But my mentality is if I’m not doing it, someone else is doing it and they’re wreaking the benefits off of it. So as much as we’re saying they’re the bad guys, they’re creating opportunities and I just quit my job. So I’m going to I’m going to do this and I’m going to strategize. I’m going to strategize it to make it work as best as possible. I don’t know anything where you don’t put money down for it to get profits in return. So, yeah, I could do these other things, but I also want to have an avenue that I would never meet people before. And that was my avenue with Zillow. So I strategically picked outside of the major city. I picked a small town. I think I started off with one hundred fifty bucks.

[23:57] Fast forward. You know, I ended up like at two thousand twenty five hundred. But I started with one hundred fifty bucks. That opened doors for me. Last but not least, the biggest thing at the beginning of my career was. Well, I’ll say two things. Networking. Like I said, I’m an introvert. I hate networking with a passion. So a lot of times I go to these places and people were kind of doing short talk. And it’s kind of like, oh, yeah, you’re you’re Gus. You work over here and know how’s everything. And we’re done. I don’t like it, but I needed it with the traction I was doing. I’m like doing social media posts. I needed for these people to meet me out in the public. So I forced my way to do that.

[24:34] Last but not least, one agent gave me a chance to go ahead and sell a mobile home that was on 20 acres of land that they sell. It was completely a jerk. Now, we’ll call them other words, but I’m trying to keep it PG on this podcast. But he was a jerk. He would yell at me. He would do everything in the world. The agents told me Gus, you know, he’s kind of difficult. We’ll take 15 percent. I was like, all right, cool. I got I eventually got it. So, you know, I I did things a little bit different. So I would post it. And this is a little some time ago. So it’s a lot different now. I would post the listings on Facebook Marketplace and I would go to barter pages and post the listings in there. And then I found a bank that would take 20 percent down.

[25:20] It’s called a portfolio loan. I found a guy who just, you know, he had an accident or something. He was getting a large slump of money. We linked them together. I got that. I got that. So what I did was they asked for 15. I gave him 50. The reason why I gave him 50 percent of that is I wanted them to tell everyone else in the office that 50 percent saying I didn’t want to touch. Yes. Not only that, they’re telling everyone that. Oh, when I got someone difficult, I’m just going to give them to Gus. That was a one time thing with the 50. Let me just say that also. But yeah, no, that’s that’s awesome. I mean, that’s that is like the attitude as an agent, you know, that is wanting to refer things out and wanting help is, is whenever you have like a an eagerness like I’ll do, I’ll do whatever.

[26:12] Like, like, give it to me. Yes, I’m your yes guy. That that just makes you become the go to person. If if there’s like if if you’re if there’s one person that’s like kind of like, oh, is this worth my time? Like, you know, am I going to do this one? Or is it, you know, let me think through this a little bit and get back to you versus something that you send it to and they’re running with it and they, you know, they do a good job. Like you’re going to give that person the business every time it comes. Like whenever there’s a chance for sure. I try to tell that to new agents and they’re like, are they pre-approved?

[26:47] And I know I get the whole pre-approved. Don’t get me wrong, bro. I was showing houses. I didn’t care. I just had to hear what you did for a living. Oh, you know, you’re a doctor. You don’t got a pre-approval. All right. You know, I’ll meet you there so me and you can create a relationship. Then I’ll go ahead and we’ll try to get you pre-approved at some point. You know, I need you to get that so we can put an offer in. If you don’t get it, we already built a bond. I don’t know who, you know, you Joe small, you might meet tomorrow. Might be like, oh, I’m looking for agent. Hey, this guy Gus helped me out. Every, every person was an opportunity for them to expand your name, whether they had approval or pre-approval.

[27:27] No, don’t get me wrong. Now, if you don’t have a pre-approval, you know, I’m probably way more hesitant. But at the beginning, I was hungry for any opportunity and try to make it work. Yeah. Well, you know, you know, you could really look at your initial meeting with a buyer as a good opportunity to also like meet a lender or something because, you know, we got to get those broker’s agreements signed now. And I mean, we’ve had to in Virginia for a while, but yeah, like you got to get those signs. So that’s a good, good opportunity to maybe give some education and get, give some, you know, value and not make it too long, but maybe also need a lender kind of get, get at least initial screenings done to make sure that we’re all moving forward as just an idea.

[28:09] But yeah, no, I know I’ve like, but even if for me, like if I’m referring an agent, business and they’re asking me questions, like, are they pre-approved? I’m like, I don’t know, but like, you can ask that question. Like I’m trying to give you some business. Yes. And I’m like, wow, are you selling 80 houses a year? Like, I thought you were just trying to get paid. I guess, you know, you need the, you need everything on the platter, give it to you, I guess. I don’t know. Yeah. No, but that’s the, that’s the attitude to cultivate right there. Like that is the attitude. And I think, I’m curious where, if you could break down some of like where your most business kind of came from, but if you get tapped into some agents that are willing to, to give you their leftovers, their extras, or they’re like, I don’t want to, or even I’m just too busy right now. And, and I think there’s very, you know, abundantly minded people that will also give you some slam dunks. Like if they’re, I have a buyer coming to their listing and they, and they, they want representation.

[29:12] It might’ve been their client before. Like if you’re the go-to person, like that’s just going to be the opportunities that you present. So sometimes you have to do the, the, you know, the, the single wine on 20 acres to kind of get some of that easier stuff. So I was doing a lot on social media. Like I said, I was doing like funny skits. I feel, and I say this to my wife, I was doing TikTok on, and our major platform is Facebook. I know this, it wasn’t too long. It was like 2018, but our area of Facebook is the major platform, especially at that time. So I was doing like funny skits about being a real estate agent, stuff like that. And I told myself, yo, no one’s going to take me serious until they see me do closings.

[29:53] Soon as I closed that mobile home, oh, I just got this done. I’m taking pictures with the guy. He’s talking, I’m recording them. He’s talking about his experience with me. That’s the stuff. Now, not only those avenues I told you about how I’m getting people, now the people I’ve met since I’ve been in college and been an adult in this local area, I’ve met at the bank. Oh, now Gus close on a property. Now they’re contacting me. Now they’re starting to believe in me that I’m not just a guy that just decided to quit his job, be an agent. Now they’re having some trust that they’re seeing results all on social media platforms. So that was another thing that kicked in. Oh, that’s cool. I’d be curious. Okay. So that’s, that’s killing it for a year, first, first full year. I mean, that’s, that’s absolutely killing it. That’s awesome.

[30:43] I would imagine you had similar trajectories after that. When did you start getting into investing? Uh, so 2019, uh, that was my first full year, 50 to 2020, uh, was 71, uh, 2000 also 2020, no, 2020 was when I brought my first investment. So now 2020, I’m, I’m making good money. My mentality, if things are always too good, I’m scared it’s going to end. So I, so I’m started, I started to work with investors. So they kind of taught me the game. And the reason why the investors started working with me is because I was quick to get to showings and just open the door. They knew I didn’t know anything. So they were like, you know, he can’t really help us as far as breaking down this, but what you can do is just get us into these buildings. This is when the MLS, you had great opportunities on the MLS things have changed a little bit since then. Um, so I would open the doors for them. So I would help someone buy a property then six months later, or maybe three to six months later, we’re help, we’re selling it. So I may get a check for 5,000, let’s say, then I’m reading the closing disclosure and they’re getting a check for, uh, let’s say

[31:59] 175,000. So if you’re really a student of the game, if you’re really being aware of what’s going on, you’re going to ask this key question. Hey, I saw you got like 175,000. How much did you put into that? Uh, we put in about 45,000. Okay. I helped you buy that for 65,000. So I’m doing the math. I’m like, Oh, wow. But then I go into the house. I see what he did. There was no, and then once again, this might be just for the area that you’re in, but there was no granted, you know, not the stuff I saw on HDTV, not those three, 400, $500,000 houses that are normally around my area. So I’m seeing like, okay, I’m busting my butt $5,000. She just got one check for, you know, 135. I’m doing something wrong or when I would help someone buy four units. Yeah. I’m getting the data as far as the PNL on how that works, but then I’m asking questions. So I’m like, you know, when you’re looking at this, what are some of the things that you’re looking at? He’s like, Gus, if you go in and you do this to the unit and you do that, and you put this amount of money down.

[33:05] So they’re kind of telling me this information. Now, one big thing I was doing was bigger pockets. So they’re telling me the information and I’m listening to bigger pockets every single day since 2017, 2018. So I’m trying to put it together. So I’m like, Hey, so when right now you’re going to cash out about 2,500, when you get these where they need to be, it’s going to be like 4,500. She’s like, yeah, every month. Yeah, I was like this. So I’m busting my butt. I’m on the road because I was getting a lot more. Obviously when you’re starting out, you’re getting a lot more buyer clients and seller clients. I’m on the road 24 seven anywhere. I’m going here, there, hour away, two hours away. I’m on the road. I’m like, so you’re getting this 4,500 automatically.

[33:49] So I need to get in the game. So all the money I was saving up, I’m ready to buy my first investment. My first investment I actually walked into was like a duplex in a single family home. I was going to buy it. We went to the inspection. I got feedback from some people I trusted. We don’t think this is the one. All right, cool. I ended up talking to someone else. I was helping them buy a property. He’s like, yeah, I got this five unit. I’m looking to sell also in a town I’m familiar with. I was like, yeah, I can help you sell that. Now I’m thinking like an agent. I can help you sell that. Yeah, no problem. So we go see the place. I call one of my investor buddies. I’m like, hey, I just got a five unit off market. You want to come take a look at it? I’m here with the owner right now. He goes, takes a look at it. He’s like, Gus, that five unit is awesome. Let’s put it on the contract. So we end up putting it under contract. I’m the agent. The thing that happened was his bank didn’t appraise the property for what it needed appraised for.

[34:54] In most cases, people would be like, oh, it’s not a good deal. But with talking to him, only thing he could talk about how good of a deal this is. So I sat back. Now it’s a five unit. It’s real different than what I thought I was going to get. I thought I was going to get a duplex, triplex, fourplex to start off with. I said to myself, you know what? Why don’t I just buy this? Let me go ahead and try. So I got introduced to commercial lending first. So I’ve never, except for my primary home, I’ve never purchased anything without it being a commercial mortgage on it. Once I got introduced to that, I brought the five unit in August of 2020. That was my first investment. That’s an awesome jump right in. That’s amazing. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, that’s one of my babies to this to this day, probably, you know, top three or four in my portfolio.

[35:45] I’m thinking back to the interest rates then and how much appreciation this happens.

[35:53] Definitely how much rents have gone up. Yes. It’s a very, it was a great buy. If I could go back to myself back there, I’m like, don’t even think about trying to sell this by this right now. But yeah, it was a great buy. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I mean, how many times has that happened to people? I think I think that that’s just kind of a mindset people get into. And, you know, like, I’m gonna make a commission off this. And, you know, even if the commission would have been bigger than the like, you know, the first month or the first year of cash flow, let’s say, I mean, just over time, that’s just difference that it compounds and gets bigger and bigger. I mean, having owned real estate through the pandemic. I mean, that’s, I would imagine a big chunk of your net worth at this point. Like, yes, yes. And so when I brought that first one in August of 2020, January comes, I buy a three unit, then February, you know, March, I buy another three unit. So I get on the roll now.

[36:51] So I got the book, I got the book, I was gonna manage the five unit at the beginning. And then like the day I owned it, like maybe like a week later, one of the toilets broke. And they called me over and I’m looking like I don’t know what to do. Like they’re looking at me like I’m gonna save the day. I was like, I don’t really know what to do. I don’t really don’t got connections. I’m calling other investors. Yeah, who do you use for a plumber? So I was like, I need to put this with a property management team. I kind of I’m happy I did that. But now, as an, you know, a seasoned investor, I’m kind of mad I did that. And we could get into that at some point in the conversation. Well, go ahead. I mean, yeah, what you do self manage now all the time? Or?

[37:31] No. So everything I have right now, not everything, majority of the stuff I have right now is with my management team. Now, the reason why I say I wish I would have managed that at the beginning, because I would have been able to understand how the money works, where it’s dispersed, you know, who am I paying? How much are these things that were getting fixed? So this was a more like a turn key property. This wasn’t something I fixed up. So when I’m getting my when I’m getting my slips from the management team, I’m like cleaning. I’m like this. I’m like, I’m reading the lines. I’m like, okay, this is not what I written down written out at the beginning and was supposed to get. So, you know, I’m getting confused. It took me six to seven, eight months to really understand how everything worked. That could have been six to seven months. I was doing it myself, understood it, pass it to them. And from the beginning, I could have told them how I want it. So I feel like I missed a learning curve there at the beginning. I see. So like you would still man it, have it managed, but having that kind of baseline understanding of how the whole thing works,

[38:36] you could better manage the managers. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And I think, you know, at some point, again, I think with real estate agents, we tend to try to do everything ourselves. And delegation is definitely key. And also, like, I mean, just for longevity of things, like if you think that this, you know, managing these properties is going to make you not buy anymore, or sell, like, get it managed, like, for sure, like, get it off your plate, because you can probably be spending your time in other areas that are going to make you more money. And owning real estate over time is, you know, the best way to become wealthy. So yeah, man, you don’t you don’t play around. You jumped in to investing and sales, and just went, you know, 100 miles an hour right away. That’s awesome. With making the money as an agent.

[39:29] So one thing I was noticed, because my first few transactions, I was putting 20% down. So you know, bigger pockets, I’m sure everyone’s a bigger pockets, baby. Brandon’s biggest thing is burr, burr, burr. So I got to a point, I was like, okay, I can’t keep putting 20% down, you know, as much as that’s a benefit, I need to figure other ways to be able to scale without putting that much money down. So I brought my first burr. And we’re buying my first burr, I brought it for like 70,000. With the closing costs, with the with the fees as far as monthly fees, holding costs, and with the rehab, I was all in like 45,000. The house appraised, so this was a single family home and it appraised for 150. So I presented it to the bank, and I can get 80% back the bank I work with, I get 80% back. So I was basically my first burr, I think I was in maybe a few a few thousand, but I was right, right there, like close, close to where it needed to be.

[40:32] And right now I still have a lot better than 20% down, right? 100%. And then when I got the taste of the burr, I was like, okay, so we’re going to switch our model now. No longer are we buying 20%, unless they’re phenomenal deals, we’re going to look for properties where they’re depleted, and we can fix those up so I can retain my money. And so that what I’m doing as far as a real estate agent that can build up, and I’m just using the same amount of money each particular deal. And I think that’s helped me scale 10 times fold since then. Yeah. Are you, how are you, what are you doing for your holding, like money? Are you doing cash, equity lines, hard money? What are you doing for that? Yep. So at the beginning, I was doing cash.

[41:17] Until I got introduced to lines of credit, wasn’t really familiar. Once my banker broke it down, he was like, yes, pretty much money you’re able to use from the bank to do exactly what you’re doing with your own money. I was like, oh, really? So he’s like, how much do you want? Because this time I already got six, seven buildings. I was like, can I get 150,000? He’s like, yeah, we can do that. So now I’m not even using my own money, which I was using at the beginning. And since then, my credit line is a good chunk now as way more than 150,000. So I normally buy cash, rehab with the credit line and then refi. And I only refi. And I hear this a lot. I don’t really like sometimes when I hear this, if I’m all into something for a hundred, let’s say a hundred thousand and the building’s 200, the building gets appraised for 200,000 and I could get 80% of that 200,000. That would get us at 160. Me, myself, I don’t want to take that extra 60,000. I just want to take what is that I put into the building. So I’m keeping my principal payment lower. And I don’t have an extra 60,000 that I’m paying on, which I may not have

[42:31] an opportunity to place it anywhere. To me, that doesn’t make any sense. Yeah, it really depends on your goals. For one, I mean, so like if you’re wanting to kind of free up your expenses through passive income, like you’re trying to be a hundred percenter where all your living is covered by passive income, that totally makes sense. I got to say I’ve mostly been in that same mindset, but at the same time, I’m kicking myself for not taking out more, at least for my primary residency, which is at like a 2.7% rate. I’m like, I’ll never see, if I could have got another a hundred thousand dollars out of this house, I will never see that cheap money again. But at the same time, I do love my $1,700 a month or whatever I’m paying in a mortgage payment on it. A lot of people argue about the return on equity ratios and stuff too, when you kind of get into how much leverage to have. But at the end of the day, if the market turns, like if I know it has in some areas, you’re in a good place now, right? Like you’re in a better place. You can afford more. Rents could come down and you could still be okay.

[43:49] Prices come down and you’d still be above water. So I think it’s a personal thing overall, but I definitely lean more that way as well. I don’t think merging out my eyeballs is comfortable. Never. But then if I keep things, so I have a yearly meeting with my banker, and then that’s when we talk about increasing my credit line. So if I’m refining and just taking what I need, now that leaves me some money for negotiations. When I ask my banker how much I want to increase my credit line for, I could just put it on that. And that’s something I can control when I need it. So that’s where I’m more of a fan of with the lines of credit. No, that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. You can still tap into it. I’m sure you have to pay interest on it at that point. But yeah, like, I mean, you can still have access to that, which and when you get into this burr kind of strategy, like it’s like you’re here, not printing money, like printing houses, almost it feels like you’re just kind of recycling this money. So access to more is great. When you when you can get it all back. And, you know, I think it’s always you hear horror stories about people who get caught holding a few,

[45:01] or like, you know, a number of flips or number whatever, at the same time when markets turn, and it’s just, you know, it that’s that’s I’ve never, we also don’t have that many in our area that we can really take on like multiple at the same time, we’re a smaller market. So the deals are more limited. But yeah, that’s always been the back of my mind as well, like just kind of, you know, trying to to make sure that you’re being conservative and everything. Just how much you’re taking how big of a scale, etc. But if you don’t mind me saying this, yeah, everyone’s gonna have their different perspectives, you know, because a lot of people say, Gus, aren’t you worried about if the market turns guns, don’t you worry about this, that and the third, I can’t control that only thing I can control is making sure I’m buying these properties the right way, making sure they’re cash flow, and I’m underwriting it to the my best of my capabilities, making sure when we’re rehabbing them, we’re rehabbing them. So you know, they’re lasting longer than you know, a half ass rehab, sorry for my language. I can do those steps,

[46:06] I can’t have the fear hovering over me. Oh, 2008 or 2010, you know, everything went haywire. Okay, you know, I haven’t gone through that that type of situation. But I’m not going to stop in the reason why I’m not gonna stop as a real estate agent, I’ve worked with too many people that they ended up selling because the market got crazy. When COVID happened, they’re making 500,000 300,000. And I was like, all you did was hold on to the house. All you did was have as many houses as possible. And now you’re just letting the single families go and you’re making a crap ton of money. So my mentality right now is I don’t if you’re to me, if anyone’s talking about being conservative, you know, you know, you know, over leverage and things along those lines, I can’t really hear hear that right now. I’m laser focused. And this one day, this might be the downfall. This guy was an idiot because he didn’t listen to you know, but I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m all in, I’m putting all my chips in. And this is the time to go right now. Because when the next boom happens, whether it be 510 30 years from now, there’s no telling when that is.

[47:13] That’s where I’m going to go back and be like, okay, I watched these guys make a crap ton of money. I want to be that same person when that next boom happens. And by me doing that, it’s collecting as many properties as possible. I don’t have partners. I don’t have mentors. Only thing I have is me watching how things are going and telling myself this makes sense to get as much pawns because right now I’m getting a lot of single families get as much pawns on the board. And when it’s time for those pawns to sacrifice them, I’m going to have a whole bunch of sacrifice, sacrifice on the board. Yeah, no, I mean, I think there’s definitely wisdom to not waiting for things to be like ideal. Well, because people will make that like, you know, this, this is not the right time to buy or people always feel like they overpay for a house. And you know, like interest rates now are one of the big things, right? Like it’s hard to buy something that pencils out because of interest rates, if you just, you know, especially if you’re just on market, not doing any rehab.

[48:10] But, but like, you know, I tell people like, well, you know, my buddy who had like 50 houses, one interest rates dropped, was able to refinance them all. He would not have been able to buy 50 houses in that that window of time. And so that’s, you know, definitely a key component to all this. And then on the other hand, I, you know, I see people again, this is a personal tolerance thing, I think I see people will tap into any equity they can. And then and then put that as a down payment on another property with a DSCR loan, so that they’re, you know, almost 100% leveraged, even though that pencils out cashflow wise now, you know, and I’m sure they’re doing a lot of good calculations to make sure that they’re, you know, everything’s covered if there is a shift in the rent they’re getting, etc. So I, you know, I think there’s just, there’s different extremes, right? And, you know, I think it’s, it’s, it’s your personal preference, your personal risk tolerance. And, you know, the people have been bold and have done really well, for sure.

[49:21] I that’s I always kind of try to be a little bit moderate overall, for that reason. But you know, I probably missed out on some things. Yeah, but Gus, that brings me, I mean, is that like, so, so you’ve you’ve been just investing hard ever since, right? And you’ve been continuing your sales? Are you still a solo agent then as well? No. So as an agent, had phenomenal, some phenomenon, I’m trying to figure out which ones are what. So in 2000, looking at the plaques, 2022, 100, and then 2023, over 100 houses. So those are my those are my peaks. Then after that, you know, to be honest, you start being a little bit more selective, and more giving other agents stuff, you know, I was burnt out. After 2023, on the road 24 seven, my portfolio was growing, I’m doing bursts, I’m giving that a lot of time and effort to it. And I told myself, hey, you know, this is the time where the 100% I gave as far as an agent, I’m giving that to the being invested.

[50:27] So I kind of switched. Now, a lot of people were mad at me. Maybe when I go through head office, you were a top selling agent. And now, you know, even though I guess mine would be respectable, you know, I’m doing 3035 transactions, that’s still respectable to a degree. But that’s not where I was before I was flat out, you know, posters, this and that. But I’m like, if I do this, if you saw me do this in this avenue of work, imagine what I’m going to do over here. And this is going to give me the biggest return. So there’s passive, there’s active money and passive money. Now it’s time to give that passive money that full attention. And, you know, and that’s where I’m at right now. So I’m kind of like a part time agent at this point.

[51:11] Yeah, no, that’s awesome. I mean, I think like, you know, there’s there’s a couple lines of thoughts there. Like, I mean, so following what you’re passionate about is one, which, you know, that’s great. I mean, I think it’s it’s great to be had the freedom to do that, right? Like, you can choose kind of what you want to do. And then I mean, second of all, like, I think, you know, at some point, what’s the point? Like, what’s the point of working 24 seven, you know, just slaving away to get every single transaction that you possibly can. And, you know, that’s kind of what this show is all about is, you know, we’re working towards again, because we try to we leave our W two’s or whatever we leave and we try to be free by by pursuing real estate and become slaves to it basically, right? I mean, we’re working so hard that we don’t have any time for ourselves. Everything else is kind of falling. And yeah, so like working towards a different kind of freedom than or if you look at the cashflow quadrant, for example, like there’s the employed, the self-employed, the business owners and investors. And kind of when you get into the real estate ownership, I would say you’re kind of both

[52:19] you’re kind of about a business owner and an investor. But yeah, anyway, all that to say is like it. It’s great. I mean, I think it’s it’s a that’s a pursuit that’s going to pay dividends over time. Sometimes it doesn’t always feel like you’re kind of reaping it all. Like, we joke around about being an investor and being cash poor, like asset rich, cash poor. So it kind of, you know, it feels you’re building you’re building stuff for the future. And, you know, it’s it’s awesome. We’ve had a long conversation. I do want to break it into a golden nugget if you have one you want to share to our audience here. Yeah. So, you know, what I would say is a lot of this I’ve been saying have tunnel vision. But what I will tell everyone who’s a real estate agent, and right now you’re that’s your main focus and what you should you should master one craft. But what you want to do is when you become a real estate agent, when you get things going, you’re going to meet a bunch of people. And being a real estate agent to me is your entry level into real estate. Once you get in get in the door, you see how everything works,

[53:27] you’re going to come into contact with people that may take you in other directions. Be open, listen and be aware of what other people are talking about. Because for me, it was investing and that took me to a whole different place I thought I would never be in. So once again, be aware of where you’re at, but still have that drive and that tunnel vision also. I love that. And we haven’t even touched the tax benefits of this. It’s like a retirement account that you don’t have to pay taxes on or like that, you know, reduces your taxes, especially for real estate professionals. So I love it. That’s awesome. Gus, what about a book that was fundamental for you that you think everybody should read or maybe one that you’re just currently really enjoying? So I’m going to well, what I’m going to say is probably the book everyone says, Mr. Kiyosaki, is that his name? Robert Kiyosaki. Yeah, correct. What’s the name of the book? Rich Dad Poor Dad. Yes. So that was a book I read when I became an agent. You know, very good things that were said in there on how some people live compared. I’m very cheap. So it

[54:38] was right down my alley. So I don’t have the flashy car. I feel like you can’t do the things that are going to give you wealth if you spend it on things that are going to just make you look rich. I don’t want to look rich. I want to be wealthy. So that book was very instrumental as far as that, but I’m going to be honest. Since then, I have not read a book and maybe some people could tell. But I really am. For me, listen to like a podcast like this, listen to a bigger pockets, a few other podcasts. That’s my avenue. And I want to be able to maybe give a little bit different answer so people can hear, okay, he’s saying podcasts. And maybe that’s more of the thing I like to listen to also. So I would definitely recommend some podcasts, talk on real estate, whatever you want to be, listen to that. And whatever you want to be read that. I guess.

[55:30] Sure. No, I love it. And you know, honestly, I think a lot of people in podcasts on and seminars, etc, are kind of spouting the knowledge that are the going trending, like books anyway, they’re kind of, you know, regurgitating that. So that makes it that makes a lot of sense. Podcasts are great. I mean, I think the continued pursuit of knowledge is really like where like you’re honing your craft, you’re learning how you can prove yourself, everything, your world, your finances, your investing, blah, blah, blah. As you as you go, that’s awesome. Gus, where can people reach you or follow you? Do you are you you said you’re active on Facebook still? Or do you Instagram as well? Yeah, so I’ve been the last three years have converted over to Instagram. It’s Gus O’Faley. Real estate, you can catch me over there. I post when I close properties, I post, you know, when they’re all done, and what the numbers look like, I’m a big fan of giving receipts and giving that type of information. So I would say that’s the major platform to catch me on and me and my everyday and real estate, whether it be rails or stories. Cool. Awesome,

[56:37] Gus. Well, hey, thanks so much for being on the show. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you everyone for watching.

[56:56] Is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.