The Journey of One Man Who Turned Trauma Into a Fund Empire with Devin Robinson

[0:00] Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matias, an agent and investor. And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist. Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up? Let’s do it.

[0:24] Welcome back to the REI Agent. Erica is with us today. Hi, Erica. Hi. We had a really good conversation with Devin Robinson. Devin is an investor, got a really interesting story. I mean, it was a really good conversation through and through. So it’s going to be a good one for sure. Yeah, that was a really fun one. I enjoyed talking to him. He’s one that, you know, like if we ever were at a conference at the same time, he’d be one that would be fun to meet in person. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think we’d be surprised when we saw him in person? We just met somebody that was similar to this, where we had only talked to him like through like the podcast and just, you know, through like social media and stuff like that.

[1:02] And he was like, you know, five inches taller than I expected. It always happens whenever you see him for the first time. Something’s a little different. We’re going to have to ask our guests what their heights are so we can properly picture them in our minds. Yeah. During the interview. I’m sure they see us as very different too. Yeah.

[1:23] I mean, it was a bit of a longer conversation, so we don’t have a ton of updates at the moment. We can just kind of get right into it because it is really good content. But yeah, without further ado, here is Devin Robinson.

[1:38] Welcome back to the REI agent. We are here with Devin Robinson. Devin, thanks so much for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Devin, before we get into your niche now, what you’re doing now or one of the things you’re doing now, tell us a little bit about how you got started in real estate. Oh, good question. It was, man, I guess everybody kind of rode the wave of 2021, right? When like real estate was good after kind of, well, specifically investing was good during that time. And so I got into, I learned about wholesaling from a thing called wholesaling from TikTok. So I went to my wife and I was like, hey, babe, I think this would be something really cool to start because I just I’ve done a lot of other things in my life.

[2:23] I’ve started run companies, sold them, crashed and burned them, done all kinds of things. And so I was like, well, here’s another one. This seems really cool. We should try this. And she was like, no, I don’t think so. And I was like, all right, I’ll just try it. And so I started getting into it, started doing some deals, learning a lot about it. And then I went to my mom and I was like, hey, mom, I’m trying this thing called wholesaling. And she was like, you know, that’s what I do, right? And I was like, well, what do you mean? And she said, I work for I work for a hedge fund and I do acquisitions for a hedge fund. So we have a lot of people, wholesalers that bring us deals that we purchase.

[2:53] And I was like, oh, awesome. And so then she was like, this is how you should do it. Go to these people. And we did it in a really unorthodox way. But she was like, go to these people and then we’ll just kind of buy the deals from them. And I was like, oh, cool. And so at that time, we did 70 deals in our first six months, really grew really quickly and then absolutely crashed and burned because the hedge fund stopped buying. And I didn’t actually know how to help wholesale at the time. And so then I had to really learn and relearn the whole process and then built up another built up our company to now where we are. And it’s fun and it’s great. And I’m super thankful for it. And so that’s kind of how I got started in real estate.

[3:29] Never really had like a desire to really do it. But it just I think for me, it was I’ve always known real estate is kind of the thing, right? Like everybody knows no matter what your background is. It’s real estate. You know that that’s like the the pathway to generational wealth. And so I grew up in L.A., California, a single mom. I say she’s the true triple, double mom, three jobs, two kids. And like she worked really, really hard, but never left us like any assets, never left us any like I like left us anything. And she’s still here. I love my mom. She’s fantastic. She’s my hero, but like didn’t teach us how to build generational wealth or anything like that. But everybody knows it’s real estate.

[4:07] So, you know, I’ve run some of these companies, crashed and burned them. But like when I started doing wholesaling, I saw a lot of money quick. And then I was like, well, it’s real estate. I’m just going to stick to this because this is like what wealthy people do. So I just stuck with real estate, sold the other companies, did the other stuff, and then and then have been doing that ever since. And then essentially like one of the things that I’ve learned is there’s always levels. Right. So like you’ve got wholesaling and then you got flipping and then you got lending. Right. Like the thing about flipping and building is lending. You want to be the bank that lends them to that stuff. And then now and what I do now is running funds.

[4:42] And that’s kind of like the pinnacle of business in the U.S. is like private equity hedge fund, stuff like that. And so that’s kind of what I do now. And I’m not the pinnacle of business in the U.S. But that’s kind of the trajectory that makes a lot of sense. So, you know, in case anybody here isn’t familiar with wholesaling, basically you’re getting a house off market under contract and you’re selling that contract. And whatever you sell above that a contracted amount is kind of your fee for doing this deal. And so I guess one of the problems you face is you had an amazing buyer that was, you know, a gravy train and then you didn’t have that network of other investor people, buyers. And it just got harder because like it was, you know, interest rates got went high or I don’t know what time timeline it was for you.

[5:35] But yeah, interest rates got higher. It’s harder to make deals to pencil out. And so, you know, without having that steady or multiple options for people to buy, then you might have the deals, but you don’t have anything to do with them. Right. Is that accurate? Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, especially when we were just locking them in too high. And it was one of those things where then it’s great because then we start partnering with other realtor partners and things like that. And we have a lot. We partner now with a ton of realtors that list our deals. And so we love being able to work with realtors and being able to provide really awesome services with a lot of the sellers that we work with through our realtor partnerships.

[6:15] And so at the time, though, it was one of those things. Rates started. The interest rate climate just started climbing and then people like funds no longer bought. It didn’t fit the buy box because they’re borrowing at a certain rate. They’re borrowing at a certain rate from their lenders from a lot of times like these these funds like Amherst, Progress Residential, all these people borrow from like BlackRock and Blackstone and and, you know, like Main Street and they buy from them. And so they’re buying at a certain rate. And then if the if the rates that they’re that Amherst is buying at are too high, they can’t deliver on what’s been promised to BlackRock. And so ultimately they stopped buying from us because the cap rates didn’t fit.

[7:01] They weren’t able they wouldn’t be able to to give those returns. And so they just stopped buying very fast, like overnight, no more. And they canceled a ton of contracts because they no longer penciled out. And so, yeah, that’s exactly right. OK, OK. Now let’s let’s play a little game. I am a 55 year old agent. I’ve been doing this for 30 years. What in the heck is a wholesaler? Why would you why would I work with you to sell this house? Like you’re just stealing money from people. Yeah, tell me, tell me how that’s exactly what people think. Yeah, no, there’s no problem. Talk to me. Talk to me about, you know, sell me on working with you to sell some of these contracts or sell the house. Oh, cool.

[7:40] Oh, good story. Good. I’ve got the deal. I probably wouldn’t sell you on working with me, but I would say, hey, man, we’d love to be able to use you. I know. So for instance, we have a really nice house in a really nice part of Charlotte Providence Plantation. We want to list it on the market. Now, granted, we’ve we bought it, but we could just sell it again off market. But I would rather put it on the market and have somebody that knows the area really well and has a track record in that area and then is able to list that on the market to one, make us more money and then get them the listing. So like love agents. But I wouldn’t like ask. I wouldn’t go to an agent and be like, man, I really need your help with this.

[8:20] We do have other agent partners that we work with a ton on these, but I want to be able to provide the opportunity for everybody to have a win win. I know that that agent is way more experienced in that area than I am. They’re going to work really hard on that. That’s the one thing I do love, love, love about agents is like they’ve got they’ve got that deal. They know other people that are going to come in, especially in areas because like we buy properties all over North Carolina and in South Carolina. And so like when we go to sell that property again, we know that that agent in that area specifically like we have a house in Chocowinity, North Carolina right now. And I don’t know where the heck that is, but it was a good deal for us.

[8:57] So we bought it and now we’re using an agent and then the agent knows the area really well. That guy’s been there for 30 years. He knows exactly where that house is. He’s there. He knows the vendors in that area. He knows the people that can come in and do the work. So that’s the really big benefit. I am so happy to pay a realtor fee for that because I don’t have to drive three hours to go to Chocowinity, North Carolina and then be able to put that stuff in there. And so that is fantastic for me. But then even down the road for me in Providence Plantation of Charlotte, North Carolina, that person has a really good track record in that area. They’re going to go. They’re going to put the signs out now.

[9:30] Now we do this at volume. So like we do 10, 15, 15, 20 deals a month. And I’m like, I don’t got the time to do that. I don’t really want my team to do that either. I would rather leverage the partnerships that we have and then everybody wins. And then I know my sellers are going to get really, really good. They’re going to get really good service and that’s going to come out of our pocket in the realtor fee. That’s fine with me. And so that’s kind of why we do it. And I think it’s a great partnership, especially when you have really good realtors that you can work with. Yeah. So to clarify here, you are at some points, you’re buying the deal itself and then reselling it. And other points, you’re just kind of holding the contract.

[10:09] Is that correct? Yeah, that’s correct. So in certain instances, right. So the reason why we would use realtors in a lot of instances is if we do these things called innovations, right, like a novation agreement or we use installment sales, which in South Carolina, it’s illegal to wholesale partially because they don’t want you to market a property without ownership of the property. It’s not necessarily like all selling is unethical or anything like that. It’s that you’re just marketing a property and you don’t actually own the property. So in South Carolina, we do what’s called installment sales, where we actually give the seller non-refundable money down. And then we are on title as equitable owners with them.

[10:44] And so we have a lot of skin in the game. And so then now we can go and market the property as an owner. And we work with realtors to do that. And so we do that a ton. And now in North Carolina and other states, they have what’s called innovations where this is very legal as well. It’s a very good thing where we go and we say, hey, Mr. Mrs. Seller, we’re going to go ahead and we’re going to get you your price. And then we’re going to take care of deal like hanging, like making sure all the if a buyer comes and they need concessions, we’ll take care of those those concessions for you. If you will take care of the relationship with the realtor, we’ll take care of all that stuff because we do use realtors on our innovations.

[11:22] And then what happens is when we go to close, it’s called a novation because it actually terminates our contract with the seller and then connects the seller with the buyer. And then we just get a fee for it. And then the realtor gets their commission for it. And then everybody kind of wins because the seller gets the price that they wanted. The buyer gets the house. We get a fee for it. And then the realtor gets their commissions for it. And so we do novations, installments, and then we do just buy. So in the sense of a novation or even kind of in the sense of an installment, we don’t fully own the property yet, but still are able to legally work with realtors to list the property on the market.

[11:58] Got it. Got it. We do a ton of different things. I do a lot of a lot, a lot of creative financing. I buy a lot of properties, even in certain instances. We just bought one the other day. And I’m sorry to do this, but we bought one the other day where the lady had no equity in the property. And so she was. And I think we deal with this a lot. Right. Like if you mean in the last three years, any house that was bought since 2021 has really not not much equity in it at all. People, for the most part, is going to have to come to closing with cash unless they put down really large down payments. So we buy a lot of those properties with creative financing and then pay the realtor. So we do a lot of subject to do a lot of seller finance stuff because it provides really good opportunities for the seller to kind of get out of a situation where they didn’t have equity, they were either upside down, but they got a really great interest rate.

[12:45] And so we work with them on that and then we pay the realtor. So we do a ton of different things just to be able to provide really cool solutions for sellers and work with great realtors. Yeah. And yeah, this is the I think this is what people also need to understand or agents might need to understand about this world is that really it’s solving these kind of more complex or not run of the mill problems. And most agents may not be able to solve those otherwise. So it’s yeah, like you said, like if you’re simply not able to afford to sell because, you know, I actually just talked to somebody who had a VA loan. They just got a hundred percent financing VA loan while it’s a five point five percent interest rate, which is better than, you know, I can get right now.

[13:31] The house still needs work and, you know, they borrowed a hundred percent. So, like, they’re they’re not really got no equities. And yeah, and it’s tough. And so that’s when somebody like me, I’d go, whatever is it in five point five percent in cash flows. All right, I’ll buy it. And then, like, I’m able to give the realtor some cash and then I’m able to put some cash in the seller’s pocket as well. And then I just take over the property. And so we do a lot of that partially because there has been in the last four years not really much appreciation in properties, not enough that people are really making money when they go to sell their property. And so I find a lot of instances where people are like, I’m going to lose 10 to 15 K just because I want to sell my house and I have to move across the country.

[14:14] And then I’m like, well, I’ll give you 10 to 15 K for it so you don’t have to lose it. And then they’re like, great, perfect. So, I mean, we work with a ton of people like that. Yeah, I guess that that leaves me the question. I mean, have have you seen markets like Charlotte take, you know, price hits like are the media sales press going down? Great question. So I think we we also like the initial dip. Right. And in Charlotte, we took about an eight percent dip in property prices, but it wasn’t like Utah or Arizona that dropped 30 to 40 percent. And so we saw about eight. But with that, the delta between then and now hasn’t grown enough for people to gain enough equity in their property. Right.

[14:53] So like we’ve seen three or maybe maybe four percent appreciation year over year, not even really since then. And so because of that, because of that, people don’t have enough equity to sell. But it had to catch up from the eight that it dipped down. Right. And people bought at that eight in 2021 and 2022. And so they bought right before that and it really messed them up. So, yeah, they bought at the height of the market. And so we have not seen massive appreciation, but we haven’t seen we haven’t seen the prices go down yet. No, we’ll see if prices go down. It’s definitely a buyer’s market, which creates a lot more opportunity for creative financing. I will tell you, a lot of the underwriting I did when we were we flipped a lot last year and houses just sat and sat and sat and sat and sat.

[15:39] And Charlotte’s one of those markets where a flip is almost the same price as a new build here. And so people just don’t buy flips here. They buy new builds. And so it was a lot of stuff. But yeah, very much so. I wanted to go back a bit where you were talking about your mom and growing up in L.A. And I know you love this. I saw you say something when I said that. I know I tagged it. I knew I was going to come back. You said you mentioned, you know, your mom didn’t leave you skills to build generational wealth. But it sounds like she was an incredibly hard worker. And I’m sure lots of other things. I’m just curious what what values you took away from watching your mom and growing up in the family that you did that maybe impact how you live and do business?

[16:30] Oh, this is fantastic. I think at the core of everything I do right now stems from my upbringing. My mom worked super hard. Now, it’s very interesting because she taught me everything that I needed to know to be really successful, but she didn’t teach like, oh, this is how you invest. This is how you are financially responsible. This is how you do these. Like she didn’t teach that part. She taught me the intangibles. I think the grit, the hard work, the things that really make me not give up and continue to push and to focus on a deeper why. Like I saw that lived out in my mom as we lived in when I was in high school, a one bedroom condo. And for the first two years of high school, I slept on a pullout couch and living room.

[17:14] Right. Like I saw and lived that type of thing. I I grew up in L.A. around gangs and drugs. My two best friends at the time went as life in prison for murder. The other ones in and out of jail. And so like that that’s the reality that I that I was in at the time. And I saw the way that my mom really sacrificed and worked so that that didn’t become my like my future reality. And now it’s so it’s crazy because I would have never thought to own property. And then now I’ll be in front of houses, FaceTiming my kids and my wife and I, we fostered and adopted our first three and then just had our first biological child. And like I’ll FaceTime and like our kids will be like, oh, daddy, are you buying that house today?

[17:51] Like it’s like nothing. Right. Like the other day we had a house. Yeah, we had a house in a very nice part of Charlotte and we bought it. And I mean, we’re literally it goes on the market like today. And but it had a very nice pool. So me and all my kids were at the pool and they were like, oh, daddy, what are we doing? I was like, I own this house. And like for them, that’s just like another day. Yeah. And it’s crazy to think of like I was born and raised in L.A. And real estate provides the opportunity and the ability to be able to change the trajectory of my lineage, right? Like our family and everything we do. And so I think when I go back to the question of the things that my mom did teach me and it is those things, it’s great.

[18:34] It’s really hard work. It’s that like I should I want to always push for like, what’s the bigger why? And that anything is possible, anything. And and you know, I joined these these masterminds and I’m in all kinds of masterminds. And I’ll go in them and I’ll be like, oh, you own a house. When I first got in there, I was like, oh, you own 20 houses. That’s crazy. Oh, you own like a hundred. Holy smokes. And then I’ll get into other ones. And I’m like, oh, you own six thousand. Oh, you own ten thousand units. Holy smokes. And then what happens is like the the the ceiling to the dreams of what I believe is possible is raised. But also the floor of my limiting beliefs are raised because now I go, oh, well, of course I’ll have a hundred or two or whatever.

[19:17] You know, like, of course. And I think my mom always taught me in those times, like any anything is possible. If we can make it out of there, we could do anything. We could push anything. And then, like, I can create anything, anything. I mean, like, this is so cliche. But like, literally, I could create anything I set my mind to, which is wild because, like, I’m also a massive, massive fan in AI. And like all of a sudden, a couple of days ago, I was like, you know what? I’m just going to build a CRM. And now I’ve built out and I’m vibe coding this like crazy CRM for capital raising and investor relations to CRM. And like, I think early on in life, the ability to get through the things that we got through has created the mindset for me to know, like, oh, yeah, I could do anything like that.

[20:05] There’s no doubt. Like, yeah, yeah. Run the play. Just do it. That’s what I just say. Like, run the play. Just do it. And I think my mom was very instrumental in that. Growing up, do you ever worry about, you know, I don’t worry. I don’t worry about anything. This is coming from, you know, what I worry about is, you know, being coming from nongenerational wealth and creating it. You know, how does that impact your children’s work ethic and their life? Yeah, this is good. Before you answer that, I was just going to say it because I was thinking something similar, but I was also thinking, you know, your family has a very specific, I don’t even know what the word is for it, which is just something and an additional detail, I guess, because you adopted some foster kids who also came from, I’m assuming, very different backgrounds and then coming into, you know, this generational wealth that you’re creating for yourself and for your family.

[21:03] And so I was curious to hear your answer to that question, too, with through that lens. Yeah, I can’t wait for the day. I love Shaq. And he said this thing once where he was like, my kids are like, oh, daddy, we’re rich. And he’s like, I’m not. You’re not rich. I’m rich.

[21:20] You’re not rich. I’m rich.

[21:24] I can’t wait for that day. But I think it’s like so there’s three there’s three lessons. There’s three things that I want to leave my kids with. If they don’t if they don’t remember anything, I want them to remember these three things. One, I want them to be kind. Right. So like at the end of the day, you can be anything in the world. Your kids can be anything in the world. I want my kids to just be kind. I want them to be people who are kind to other people who are humble, who are always looking to serve and help other people. The second one is one of those lessons that I’ve that I always learn. Be fearlessly authentic. Be fearlessly authentic to who you are, what you do and what you want to pursue, because at the end of the day, you do not want to climb the ladder of success on the wrong wall.

[22:06] And I think so many people tend to do that or go in that direction because they think other people want them to do something or they think they want to keep up with the Joneses or there’s something else going on. But I think like at the end of the day, be fearlessly authentic to who you are. Because I mean, all you have is your name. I think of like you guys watch. Have you guys ever seen Parks and Rec? Yes, I love Parks and Rec. OK, there’s this show. There’s a there’s this scene where Ron, there’s an episode where Ron Swanson, he’s making these rocking chairs and this lady’s like, Ron, I love your rocking chairs. They’re incredible. They’re made with such amazing detail. I want to put them in every target in the country and make you a millionaire.

[22:46] And he goes, OK, let me just think about this. And so then he goes and he comes back to the lady and he goes, you know what? I don’t I don’t think I want to do that, because if I do that, then there’s that means that somebody else is going to be making these. They’re probably going to be made in another country. They’re going to be made. They’re going to be cheap. And then if they start breaking, my name is on these chairs. And at the end of the day, all I have is my name. And so I want my kids to think about like be fearlessly authentic to who you are, because all you have is your name. And then the third thing is to hone your craft in obscurity. So this idea that like.

[23:19] Pick what you love, do what you love and work really hard while nobody’s watching, because there’s going to become a day when you when, you know, like either somebody is going to come and it’s going to be a really big quote or they’re going to speak in front of a lot of people. And if you don’t practice, if you don’t hone your craft, when nobody’s watching, when when it’s super mundane and you don’t want to do it, if you don’t continue to do that, then you’re going to fall straight on your face. And so I want them to to work really, really hard at what they do, be true to themselves and be kind to others. And I think like if I can instill those three things and I don’t think I really have to worry about how they end up growing up to be.

[24:03] And I think those are more of like character lessons, who they become, not what I want them to do. And I think if if I can help to mold who they become, then I think that’s more important than kind of the financial lessons I teach them on how to manage the wealth that we build. You know, I think 100 percent. Yeah, the amount of changes that you’re making in one generation is just kind of mind blowing if you think about it. It’s nuts. It’s nuts. When you kids, kids are mind blowing when you think about it. Yeah. How did you end up moving from L.A.? Maybe there are some stops in between. But how do you land over in North Carolina? No, no stops in between. So I. This is this is long. This isn’t too long.

[24:52] I didn’t really grow up with a dad. And then when I became a certain age, found my dad in order to avoid child support, I would spend the summers with him. I was spending the summer with him. And then because of the way that I was living in California, I got a call. Actually, I don’t remember. It was a call. Sit down. I don’t know. But it literally was like, hey, you’re not going home. You’re staying out here. So I had a suitcase with me. And it’s really interesting, like when I think about the the parallels between like foster care and stuff like that. But it was just like I had a suitcase with me and I never went back. I never went back and I never saw my stuff in my I never saw my room again, never got my stuff out of my room again, any of that stuff.

[25:32] So and then I lived out there with him and then my mom moved out there. And then I just lived with her because there’s a lot of things in between there as well. So, yeah, that’s wild. That’s why I moved up. By the grace of God is why I moved from North Charlotte or from L.A. to North Carolina. Now, I will never that way at the time. I’m guessing it didn’t feel like it at the time. Like I would probably have been pretty shocked. Yeah. You know, I think and Erica, you would you would know this trauma. Trauma has a really interesting way of stopping me from remembering all of that. So I really have no idea. I don’t remember my emotions. I don’t remember. I don’t even really remember the conversation.

[26:12] I just remember that it happened. I do remember a lot of things about that season in life. I mean, I was like 14, 15. I spent half of my life out there. So I wasn’t young, but I don’t but I don’t remember. And I think like that’s that’s like definitely a trauma thing. I might need like EMDR for that and then like that. And then my life will be crazy all over. But we don’t have that right now, Erica. We don’t we don’t have to do that. But like, yeah, so I don’t quite remember. But yeah, it was kind of I mean, initially the gift of trauma, you know, is if it’s so intense and so hard to deal with, you know, your body does kind of numb out as a way of just kind of taking care of you. So it might be an OK thing for a bit.

[26:55] Yeah. Yeah. For a bit. I think it’s probably necessary at some point. Wow. And what a story. Good grief. And just with your suitcase, too, I have a lot of questions for you. But, you know, we really need a little bit of time. But real estate to want to go get into the the funds, the funds. Then why don’t we why don’t we chat a little bit about that? So maybe explain high level what you’re referring to when you talk about funds. Yeah, great. So a fund essentially is a pool of capital, a pool of money together for some sort of business venture or some sort of property. A lot of times, like when you think of a syndication, a syndication is essentially a single asset fund. But the docs are the same.

[27:42] The structure is typically similar. Sometimes it just really depends where a fund. You’re going to have different kind of SEC SEC filings that you do with funds. Syndication will also have the same filings. They’re just structured different syndication. Sometimes they’re structured more in like LLC structures, whereas a fund will be structured in like a what’s called a GPLP structure. But ultimately, high level a fund is just whenever you come together and you pull capital for a specific asset or multiple assets, but it’s just the pooling of capital, because what happens is if you don’t structure it correctly, you get a lot of trouble from the SEC. So and I see a lot of people doing this wrong.

[28:24] Like they mean well, they don’t want to violate SEC laws. But it’s it’s something that you think is just like, oh, yeah, why wouldn’t I be able to do that? That’s an SEC violation. You should not. You cannot do that. And it happens all the time, for instance, like I’ll be in some masterminds and somebody will be like, oh, yeah, Devin, I know you’re you’re you’re talking that you do fun stuff. And I’m like, I do do fun stuff. Yeah, I’m a fun guy. But there’s things you always get like really confused. But they don’t get it confused. It sounds very, very similar. And so so they’ll be like, you do the fun stuff. I am. You know, I got a couple of investors and they’re really great. And so like I got a promissory note with them or whatever.

[29:09] And then they’ll just they’ll wire their money to me. And then I’ll give them a return on it. And I’m like, they wire it to your they wire it to your bank account. And they’re like, they’re like, yeah, we’ve got like three people. They wired my bank account. And I’m like, security. And they’re like, oh, ha ha ha ha ha. And I’m like, no, no prison. Like you don’t want to do that. Like you need to get with a lawyer and structure that correctly, because if it’s over a certain amount, you might as well form some sort of fund or something like that so that you’re not getting in trouble. If you’ve got people sending you hundreds of thousands of dollars, you might as well form that. Otherwise, it becomes a really slippery slope, especially to people will be like, oh, well, it’s OK if they like put it in escrow security.

[29:45] No, like it technically and this is very technically if somebody is giving you money passively and they’re not involved in the deal at all, they’re passively giving you money and they expect a return. That is by nature the definition of a security. Now, for the most part, you’re not going to get in trouble from it if you got like one or two, especially like people. I’m like, you know, if you got a first position and a second position lender, you’re totally fine. You start getting into like three and anything above that. That’s very slippery slope. So you just want to make sure that you guys are operating compliantly. Do not do that now. Also, by the way, this is not this is not legal advice.

[30:25] I am not an attorney. I’m not an SEC attorney. I do not play one on television. And then I’m not your SEC attorney. Go and see one if you have any kind of questions. So let’s just throw that out there right now. But but yeah, I run into it all the time and it’s crazy. Sorry. You asked me what a fund was and I said all of that stuff. That’s good. It’s good. So so like somebody could. And I think one of the key things you just said here is passive. Like so somebody you could pull together money, like six different people and jointly own something, you know, it’d be a joint venture that wouldn’t be necessarily. But they would all have an active role. They would all. Yeah, there you go. Thank you.

[31:02] Yeah, they would all have to have some sort of active role. And you definitely could join them together in an LLC structure. Yes. As opposed to like we have invested in some mobile home park syndications. And we, you know, analyze the deal, analyze the operators, gave our money and just sit back and collect tax returns and a ones. Yep. Yep. And then, yeah, the distributions as well. So, yeah, I guess is fund a fund something you do as well? Yeah. So so and I guess like this is not a plug. Sure. Why not? But like that’s one of the things we help people do. We help them to launch funds, launch and scale investment funds. And so we do. We help people. We have a ton of people launch fund to funds and funds.

[31:52] The funds are really great. And what those are are, let’s say, and we work with a lot of people like this. They’re like, hey, I’m a doctor. I got a ton of doctor friends. I like investing in real estate. They like what I do. And I know some pretty good operators. So I’m going to start a fund so that I can get all my friends to join in with me. And then we’re going to use our money to invest in really good operators. And so that’s what a fund a fund is. They they they create a fund to invest into other funds. So, yeah, yeah, we definitely hope we will do that. And I have I have a customizable fund. That’s one of the ones I’ve had. I’m very similar to a fund of funds, though. OK. Yeah. So like, you know, there’s a couple.

[32:32] I mean, all this stuff is kind of like the power of scale. When you’re when you’re looking at a if you think about like a syndication, like a flip. So you look you look at a flip. That is, you know, you’re creating value, you’re adding value. Typically, this is how these syndications work. You find a distressed apartment building, for example, you’re adding value. You’re basically making it produce more money. So you’re increasing rents. Potentially, you’re potentially doing so by improving the property and potentially making the operating expenses less. All the net to make the net the NOI better. And that’s what raises the value. So with a single family house, it’s a little bit more straightforward.

[33:11] You’re just kind of, you know, fixing the property up. So somebody will buy it for more money. But but all it to say is like when you get to the commercial side, when you get into the millions of dollars instead of like the two hundred thousand dollar range, the scale of which the amount of money increases by, it could be huge. And so then on the same regard, when you’re looking at a fund of funds, if you’re investing one hundred thousand dollars with somebody or even if you let’s say you only have ten thousand dollars and you want to invest it with somebody, most places you can’t. Like most places you cannot invest in this indication for that little of money. But with the fund of funds, you can kind of get you can you can pull money together and make a bigger impact on this indication.

[33:53] So if if somebody’s bringing a million dollars, as opposed to ten thousand, now that person is going to get more potentially better returns or they’re going to get preferred over somebody else bringing less money, returns and that kind of stuff. So it’s all that stuff is kind of like the economy of scale. It’s accurate. That’s that’s exactly right. And I think it’s very interesting. I think that funds are the most lucrative thing in business in the world. You can do because if you’re really good at what you do, you get the opportunity to leverage people’s other people’s money with minimal debt if you structure it correctly. And so because of that, it allows you to really scale in proportion to one, how good you are at what you do and then how much capital you can raise.

[34:38] So it’s it’s really cool. Yeah, yeah. And then you’re also so a fund operator would be also adding another layer of security. So, again, like you probably trust that person that you’re investing with, a. But B, they’re also doing analysis and on the operators themselves. And that’s a huge piece, making sure that the operators have, you know, that they can run a good, good ship, good business plan. And then also the deal itself to make sure that there’s not any potential pitfalls. I mean, there’s always risk, but yeah. And that’s exactly right. And you’re going to find a lot of that stuff if you don’t know the operator before you start a fund in that fund to funds model. There’s typically three people that we we always suggest.

[35:18] If you want to start a fund, think about these three people. This means like two other people in your life, or you could probably be two out of the three, but you probably shouldn’t be all three. You want one is the fund manager. So somebody who’s going to manage the compliance, even some of your investor relations, you know, distributing K-1s, making sure everything’s in line, helping with the fund account, not necessarily helping with the fund accounting, but making sure everything’s in order to give to your fund accountant. The second is going to be your capital raiser full time job. It is it is a lot of work depending on how much you’re trying to raise. And then the third is the operator or the deal finder.

[35:50] So if you’re just in a fund and it’s not a fund to funds, but you’ve got a fund and you and you know two of those other people or sometimes like the capital raiser and the fund manager may be the same person or the capital raiser, the deal finder may be the same person. But you know those people, it’s typically not the operator and the fund manager are probably not the same type of people at all. But but like, if you know those, like if you have a circle like that and you know you’ve got a good product, you’re really good at what you do. Like I talked to a lot of builders, a lot of builders who are like, man, if I had more money, I can be able to scale this. And I’m like, yeah, why wouldn’t you start either a BTR, which is like a bill to rent fund or a bill to sell fund?

[36:29] Like, why wouldn’t you start one of those? If you’re really good at what you do, you just need to leverage capital now. And so for me, this is like a thing where it’s like I’m really I’m really good at raising capital. I’m really good at launching funds. I I but and I’m super bullish and absolutely love crypto. But I’m not a good trader and I’m not great with the fundamentals. So like I’m like, let me find somebody that is somebody who’s got a very good track record with that, does that really well? And then I will leverage their skills and then leverage my skills and we can start a fund together and then scale it to the moon. Right. Like that’s always the goal. And so like, yeah, it gives you that ability.

[37:00] If you know those people. But if you’re a fund of funds and even if you’re like, man, I feel like I’m really good at raising capital and I know Johnny and Johnny builds really good product or Johnny’s really good at this or he finds really good deals, maybe him and I can team up and start a fund. It’s not wise to start a fund by yourself. Think about good people in your life that you trust, that you know, have a good track record. And that’s what you who you want to think about with that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And one of the things that I like talking about, because I don’t know. I know sometimes it’s like, well, where do we go from here talking about funds? The thing that I get most passionate about and one of the reasons why, like, I have I’ve transitioned to really focusing on like this side of things is because I think, right, there’s this map and we’re seeing it.

[37:45] And it’s going to get it’s going to it’s just going to get worse. Is this widened wealth gap right that we have here in America? There’s 82 trillion dollars worth of assets under management in the United States, so capital invested money invested in the United States, whether through like private equity, hedge fund money, private credit, all that stuff in the US. Only one point four percent of that is managed by minorities and women. So that means that 98.6 percent of all money in America is managed by white men. And so there’s this massive disparity between access to capital and information and minorities and women. And I think that the world equally distributes talent, but doesn’t equally distribute opportunity.

[38:25] And so for me, I want to be able to help bridge this massive gap between access to information and access to capital and minorities and women, because we see and I think we’re going to move into a very interesting day and age where the rich just get richer, especially if we can’t come up with like a UBI or universal basic income. Like the rich are just going to get richer and that divide is going to grow bigger. And so I want to do everything I can to be able to bridge that gap and to provide opportunity, because there’s a couple of other people that do what I do. They’re very white guys, like very white guys. They just really are. They’re friends and I love them. They’re very white guys and they know that.

[39:04] And so like there’s a lot of people that just don’t resonate with them. And in doing that, like I think it almost discourages them to thinking it’s even possible. And so then you look at a guy like me, which we’ve talked about a little bit in my past. And my goal is to help to bridge the gap to believe for people to believe what is possible in this amazing country that we live in and the opportunity that’s available to them. And so that’s kind of like as you would be like, what the heck would make you just go to funds? And that’s one of the big reasons for me. So I just wanted to share that because I think it’s important. I mean, it goes all the way back to, you know, the values we were talking about.

[39:36] You’re right. I had I had a question one more before we transition here. You had mentioned earlier on about like a conversation that you had had with your wife about wholesaling. And and she was feeling like it was really risky. Right. At that point, she thinks everything’s risky. And I’m and I’m asking this too, because we’ve been we’ve talked a lot about our relationship on this podcast and how conversations have gone between us, you know, and going into investments. And he’s he’s the riskier one, more comfortable with risk. I’ve become a little bit more comfortable with risk, but I like my my familiarity a lot. And anyway, I’m just kind of curious what your how the conversation with your wife over the years has evolved as you’ve grown your business and your business has changed.

[40:27] It’s really interesting. So we’re in a season of life where my kids love the movie The Greatest Showman. I love that movie. Have you guys seen it? Love it. So there’s this song that the lady has. I can’t remember her name, his wife. But she just is like, it’s this song called Tightrope. And she’s just like, I’ll follow you to the great unknown. And it just is like the song very much so encapsulates our life. And I’m very thankful. She gives me a ton of grace. Our life is like walking on a tightrope because one minute and this is like one minute, we feel like how are we going to pay for anything? And then the next. But it’s like, it’s funny because people are like, oh, my gosh, you’re rich, you own real estate.

[41:04] No, no, no, no cash. You don’t have cash. You know what I’m saying? Yeah, identical cash, I think. Yeah, yeah. So but it’s like, babe, just wait. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s one of those things where back into something else. That’s right. That’s right. So but but but it’s we have I think the good thing is like the one thing I tell people is like, I just don’t I don’t there’s no such thing as balance. Gosh, there’s no such thing as balance in my life. It does not exist. But I ask the questions, one, are expectations being managed and are we communicating? Because I think if like we manage expectations, then it’s like we can have really open and honest conversations about like, hey, no phones right now, because we said that this was the time that we were doing this.

[41:53] And I think as long as we have those things, I think my wife, she’ll let me do anything. And I’m thankful.

[42:01] It’s really funny. She told me the other day or like a couple of weeks ago. I can’t remember when it was. But she finally told her her her girls and her small group. She was like, oh, I’m really believing that Devin can actually do this again. This is awesome. You know, because I do so many things and a lot of them crash and burn. A lot of them don’t work out well. I actually have a spreadsheet that I updated today. It’s got since 2013, I’ve started 26 different business ideas or businesses. Let me see how many of them. Not nearly, not nearly. I think I’m on one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine are still in the validating phase three, one, two, three, four. We’re successful.

[42:48] So relate to that so much. I feel like you and your wife and then us, maybe we should have our own support group. Yeah, sounds about right. But I love that that managing expectations in the communication that we talk about that all the time and the expectations piece tends to change for us. I don’t know about you guys, but almost weekly, depending on what the flow of work is, because it changes all the time and where we are financially, because that changes, too, depending on the investments and where things are and what we’re going for. Yeah, we just got back from a conference and, you know, Erica, you kept saying stuff like, you know, we got to work on that cash flow stuff, like having like more, you know, cash on hand.

[43:31] And I was like, I was like, all right, but hold on, let’s let’s talk to these people. Do they have the same kind of problems? Yeah, like we’re just yeah, we’re constantly redeploying it. We’re constantly reinvesting it. And then, yeah, you have like if you own real estate, you’re going to have things like roofs and HVACs and all that stuff that you need to take care of. Oh, my gosh. I hate real estate. I can’t tell you. I hate real estate. So now we lend. I am. I hate real estate. So I actually am in the process of selling like everything because like now we just lend and lending is so much better. You just don’t get the tax. Like, you know, just don’t get claimed depreciation and stuff like that.

[44:06] But yeah, it’s much different. Yeah. Well, yeah. And you know, like we’re talking about these syndications and stuff for realtors being real estate professionals. Let’s see if Trump brings back or if the Pat Bill gets passed 100 percent. Yeah. Yeah, seems like it. That’s a game changer for anybody, like a high income, you know, agent that doesn’t have time, doesn’t want to have the hassle, doesn’t want to, you know, fix roofs, you know, or unclogged toilets, that kind of stuff could take advantage of a syndication and get, you know, tons of money back. And I’ve said this a million times, but, you know, we were invested fifty thousand dollars into a mobile home park. And first year, we got sixty six thousand back in a K one that we could write off of our my, you know, earned income.

[44:50] So it’s it’s and that was only like 80 percent, I think, at the time, maybe. So anyway, it’s a huge opportunity for sure for people. And I should I should transition into if you have any golden nuggets, you want to leave with our listeners? Yeah, it’s funny, because I I I I gave like one of them. One was just to like hone your craft in obscurity. Another thing I tell people, so it just depends. Right. So like when I talk to people about like people like, oh, I want to raise more capital so that I can invest with people. One of the biggest golden nuggets that I think like clicks for people is when I say reframe what you do. Right. So when I talk to people and if I’m in like a capital raising mode, because you guys know the golden rule, he who holds the gold, he holds the gold makes the rules. Right.

[45:41] And so so I’m always like always be raising capital, always be building relationships that could eventually lead to like investors, because for me and what I do, that’s that I mean, that literally is just leverage. That literally just grows anything that we do. And so I tell people to reframe what they do. So, for instance, if you are a flipper or you build or if you’re a wholesaler or if you’re a realtor, for me, what I would tell people is instead of telling them, I do those things. I say, oh, I help people to passively make double digit returns while while investing in deeply discounted real estate. And so then I’ll have people that go, oh, that’s cool. And then I have people that go, oh, that’s interesting.

[46:24] Tell me more. And those are my people. Or they’ll go, oh, I was just thinking about or talking to somebody about investing into real estate. And so then that opens the door to having conversations about them investing with you, because realtors have access to a ton of deals. And they also have access depending on like where you’re a realtor, your experience to high net worth individuals. So you have really cool opportunities to be able to start a ton of syndications. It’s really easy. I promise syndications are easy if you are a good operator or you have a good operator, you have access to capital and you’re pretty good with admin. Right. So depending on how much you raise, like doing that stuff can be really easy.

[47:04] Now it’s just reframing the conversation to figuring out those type of people that will be a part of it. And so I guess that would be a good golden nugget when raising capital, because that helped me a ton and and and lead with curiosity. So I like to think of curiosity based capital raising. So I’ll talk to people. And and I actually when I I want to be really curious with them, those who are interested are interesting. Right. And so because I’m interested in somebody else and when I come interested in them, they then become interested in me and then what I’m doing. And it doesn’t sound like I’m entering into that conversation just wanting to raise capital from them. Right. Like, I’m curious with them and then I’m interested in what they’re doing.

[47:45] And then they become interested in me. And so then right. You’ve got the whole like how to win friends and influence people type, type mentality to raising capital. So that’s kind of how I think about it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I mean, that that also brings me to the next question, which would be what your favorite book is or one that you think is fundamental for everybody to read? Is it How to Win Friends and Influence People? That’s a fantastic book. If I could. So it just depends. I teach a lot of people that run organizations or things like that. And so my favorite would be Building an Elite Organization by Don Winner. It is very good. It is going to be hyper practical on helping you to build a very good organization built on strong, like strong foundation, strong accountability and the ability to really be able to scale with intention and with I get with purpose.

[48:37] So it is a fantastic book. I read there’s a couple of books I read like multiple time a year. I probably read that book once a quarter. It is so good. OK. Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. Well, and then finally, where can people find you? Oh, you can find me on like Instagram. Devin Robinson won. If you are looking for a the best CRM for for managing like investors or anything like that, especially like people that are raising capital. It’s got all that stuff. It’s got like distribution, calculate all that stuff in there for you guys. I’ll do two months for free if they do fund flow os dot com backslash agents. Then I’ll give you two months for free of that. I think that could be pretty cool. They’re interested in that.

[49:25] Yeah, awesome. Yeah, we’ll put that in the show notes. Thank you. Yeah, of course. It’s been a really fun conversation. There’s a few rabbit holes that I steered of Clara that we could talk about for even like, you know, three more hours, probably. But it was a long time. Same thing. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like Erica, you’re biting your tongue a lot. You’re like, I really want to dive into this sitting on my hands over here. Sure. I’m sure I really appreciate you sharing what you did, too. That was great to talk to you, Devin. Of course. Of course. I appreciate you all having me. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the REI agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week.

[50:01] Visit REIAgent.com for more content. Until next time, keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.