From Setbacks to Staying Power Building Wealth That Lasts with William Holder

[0:03] Welcome back to the REI agent. We are Welcome back to the REI agent. We are Welcome back to the REI agent. We are here with William Holder. William, here with William Holder. William, here with William Holder. William, thanks so much for joining us. Uh, thanks so much for joining us. Uh, thanks so much for joining us. Uh, >> thanks man. I appreciate you having me >> thanks man. I appreciate you having me >> thanks man. I appreciate you having me on. on. on. >> Yeah, excited to dig into who you are >> Yeah, excited to dig into who you are >> Yeah, excited to dig into who you are and what you do. But to start, can you and what you do. But to start, can you and what you do. But to start, can you give us a kind of bird’s eye view of of give us a kind of bird’s eye view of of give us a kind of bird’s eye view of of who you are in real estate?

[0:18] who you are in real estate? who you are in real estate? >> Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, in real >> Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, in real >> Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, in real estate, I am a team leader. I run the estate, I am a team leader. I run the estate, I am a team leader. I run the William Holder realy team. Uh we do William Holder realy team. Uh we do William Holder realy team. Uh we do about 240 transactions this we did about about 240 transactions this we did about about 240 transactions this we did about 240 transactions this year. Uh we’re 240 transactions this year. Uh we’re 240 transactions this year. Uh we’re located about 20 minutes outside of located about 20 minutes outside of located about 20 minutes outside of Philadelphia on the main line. So we Philadelphia on the main line. So we Philadelphia on the main line. So we service all of the counties surrounding service all of the counties surrounding service all of the counties surrounding Philadelphia including Philadelphia, Philadelphia including Philadelphia, Philadelphia including Philadelphia, some of South Jersey and Delaware. And

[0:41] some of South Jersey and Delaware. And some of South Jersey and Delaware. And um I’ve been a a full-time real estate um I’ve been a a full-time real estate um I’ve been a a full-time real estate agent for 10 years. I’ve had my team for agent for 10 years. I’ve had my team for agent for 10 years. I’ve had my team for five. And we’re growing. Um you know, five. And we’re growing. Um you know, five. And we’re growing. Um you know, we’re really just kind of hitting our we’re really just kind of hitting our we’re really just kind of hitting our stride in terms of the real estate team stride in terms of the real estate team stride in terms of the real estate team side of things. Um, I’m a broker as well side of things. Um, I’m a broker as well side of things. Um, I’m a broker as well and uh, honestly got into real estate to and uh, honestly got into real estate to and uh, honestly got into real estate to be an investor. Um, so, you know, we’ll be an investor. Um, so, you know, we’ll be an investor. Um, so, you know, we’ll talk more about that.

[1:01] talk more about that. talk more about that. >> Yeah, perfect, perfect, uh, guest for >> Yeah, perfect, perfect, uh, guest for >> Yeah, perfect, perfect, uh, guest for the show. There’s a lot of people that the show. There’s a lot of people that the show. There’s a lot of people that there’s many ways to to path of there’s many ways to to path of there’s many ways to to path of enlightenment, [laughter] enlightenment, [laughter] enlightenment, [laughter] getting into uh, sales and then starting getting into uh, sales and then starting getting into uh, sales and then starting to invest like myself or some people to invest like myself or some people to invest like myself or some people just just have their license to do their just just have their license to do their just just have their license to do their own deals. So, um, William, what got you own deals. So, um, William, what got you own deals. So, um, William, what got you into real estate to start? Like what into real estate to start? Like what into real estate to start? Like what what made you get your license? So, uh,

[1:20] what made you get your license? So, uh, what made you get your license? So, uh, about 2011, I bought my first house. Uh, about 2011, I bought my first house. Uh, about 2011, I bought my first house. Uh, I was 23. Yeah, 23. And, um, I worked at I was 23. Yeah, 23. And, um, I worked at I was 23. Yeah, 23. And, um, I worked at a a bank. Uh, everyone I was doing loans a a bank. Uh, everyone I was doing loans a a bank. Uh, everyone I was doing loans for, people buying houses. And I’m like, for, people buying houses. And I’m like, for, people buying houses. And I’m like, I should probably buy a house. I should probably buy a house. I should probably buy a house. Absolutely hated renting. Like, from I Absolutely hated renting. Like, from I Absolutely hated renting. Like, from I rented the time I graduated high school rented the time I graduated high school rented the time I graduated high school till that point, and it was pretty till that point, and it was pretty till that point, and it was pretty horrendous. So, I always knew I wanted horrendous. So, I always knew I wanted horrendous. So, I always knew I wanted to be a homeowner. Um, and bought a

[1:44] to be a homeowner. Um, and bought a to be a homeowner. Um, and bought a house, had a job, was making a decent house, had a job, was making a decent house, had a job, was making a decent salary, you know, $50,000 a year. I was salary, you know, $50,000 a year. I was salary, you know, $50,000 a year. I was fine. Uh my wife was a teacher and and fine. Uh my wife was a teacher and and fine. Uh my wife was a teacher and and we’re just kind of moving along the we’re just kind of moving along the we’re just kind of moving along the regular pace of life and I stumbled regular pace of life and I stumbled regular pace of life and I stumbled across a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad across a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad across a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad which I’m sure you’ve heard of a ton.

[1:59] which I’m sure you’ve heard of a ton. which I’m sure you’ve heard of a ton. >> Um the the the the reason I found this >> Um the the the the reason I found this >> Um the the the the reason I found this book was because I moved to America in book was because I moved to America in book was because I moved to America in 2002. I moved here from the Caribbean, a 2002. I moved here from the Caribbean, a 2002. I moved here from the Caribbean, a little country called Trinidad. little country called Trinidad. little country called Trinidad. >> And uh you know, we grew up fairly poor, >> And uh you know, we grew up fairly poor, >> And uh you know, we grew up fairly poor, not a lot of money. And uh didn’t really not a lot of money. And uh didn’t really not a lot of money. And uh didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I moved here.

[2:17] know what I wanted to do. I moved here. know what I wanted to do. I moved here. here. I moved here in the middle of high here. I moved here in the middle of high here. I moved here in the middle of high school. It was a pretty tough time to school. It was a pretty tough time to school. It was a pretty tough time to move for any kid. Um so, you know, my uh move for any kid. Um so, you know, my uh move for any kid. Um so, you know, my uh just played around with different jobs just played around with different jobs just played around with different jobs after high school. Uh got into banking after high school. Uh got into banking after high school. Uh got into banking and just found myself kind of falling and just found myself kind of falling and just found myself kind of falling into this hamster wheel of like working into this hamster wheel of like working into this hamster wheel of like working two, three jobs every time to like just two, three jobs every time to like just two, three jobs every time to like just make ends meet, you know? Um and I was make ends meet, you know? Um and I was

[2:38] make ends meet, you know? Um and I was at my mom’s and she was talking about at my mom’s and she was talking about at my mom’s and she was talking about the fact that our house in Trinidad that the fact that our house in Trinidad that the fact that our house in Trinidad that my granddad built needed a roof. And I’m my granddad built needed a roof. And I’m my granddad built needed a roof. And I’m like, “Oh man, like how are we gonna like, “Oh man, like how are we gonna like, “Oh man, like how are we gonna come up with that money?” And she said, come up with that money?” And she said, come up with that money?” And she said, “Don’t worry about it. The, you know, “Don’t worry about it. The, you know, “Don’t worry about it. The, you know, the house, the the rent will pay for the house, the the rent will pay for the house, the the rent will pay for it.” Because ever since my granddad was it.” Because ever since my granddad was it.” Because ever since my granddad was getting older, he started to convert getting older, he started to convert getting older, he started to convert that house slowly into a fourunit home.

[2:57] that house slowly into a fourunit home. that house slowly into a fourunit home. Um, it used to just be one single house. Um, it used to just be one single house. Um, it used to just be one single house. >> And uh I’m wait, what do you mean the >> And uh I’m wait, what do you mean the >> And uh I’m wait, what do you mean the it’ll pay for it? Yeah, the rents. Like it’ll pay for it? Yeah, the rents. Like it’ll pay for it? Yeah, the rents. Like we put away money for the from the we put away money for the from the we put away money for the from the rents. And I’m starting to click in my rents. And I’m starting to click in my rents. And I’m starting to click in my head. I’m like, “Wait a minute. This is head. I’m like, “Wait a minute. This is head. I’m like, “Wait a minute. This is why people buy investment properties, why people buy investment properties, why people buy investment properties, right?” So I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. Of right?” So I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. Of right?” So I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. Of course, I Googled investing in real course, I Googled investing in real

[3:15] course, I Googled investing in real estate and that’s where it came up. And estate and that’s where it came up. And estate and that’s where it came up. And I I I won’t I won’t lie, I didn’t read I I I won’t I won’t lie, I didn’t read I I I won’t I won’t lie, I didn’t read it. I’m not the It’s going to sound it. I’m not the It’s going to sound it. I’m not the It’s going to sound horrendous. I don’t I don’t read a whole horrendous. I don’t I don’t read a whole horrendous. I don’t I don’t read a whole lot. I listen to a lot of podcasts like lot. I listen to a lot of podcasts like lot. I listen to a lot of podcasts like this and, you know, a lot of audio this and, you know, a lot of audio this and, you know, a lot of audio books. I’m on the road a lot, so reading books. I’m on the road a lot, so reading books. I’m on the road a lot, so reading isn’t uh something I have a ton of time isn’t uh something I have a ton of time isn’t uh something I have a ton of time for.

[3:30] for. for. >> Uh and it the book kind of brainwashed >> Uh and it the book kind of brainwashed >> Uh and it the book kind of brainwashed me. I mean, it it it did. It’s a real me. I mean, it it it did. It’s a real me. I mean, it it it did. It’s a real simple book. Everyone hopefully everyone simple book. Everyone hopefully everyone simple book. Everyone hopefully everyone that’s listening to this has has read that’s listening to this has has read that’s listening to this has has read that book. It’s simple, but it gives you that book. It’s simple, but it gives you that book. It’s simple, but it gives you the basic framework for what building a the basic framework for what building a the basic framework for what building a life out that doesn’t require uh you to life out that doesn’t require uh you to life out that doesn’t require uh you to constantly be looking for the next best constantly be looking for the next best constantly be looking for the next best thing, looking for the next paycheck, thing, looking for the next paycheck, thing, looking for the next paycheck, looking for the next opportunity or you

[3:52] looking for the next opportunity or you looking for the next opportunity or you know, you’re it’s a different lifestyle. know, you’re it’s a different lifestyle. know, you’re it’s a different lifestyle. Something that I never thought and I Something that I never thought and I Something that I never thought and I never thought I would be a business never thought I would be a business never thought I would be a business owner or anything like that. But um so owner or anything like that. But um so owner or anything like that. But um so naturally, I thought, well, I’m going to naturally, I thought, well, I’m going to naturally, I thought, well, I’m going to be a real estate investor. I should get be a real estate investor. I should get be a real estate investor. I should get my real estate license, right? I mean, I my real estate license, right? I mean, I my real estate license, right? I mean, I just bought a home and my agent seemed just bought a home and my agent seemed just bought a home and my agent seemed to not love the process. I did and uh to not love the process. I did and uh to not love the process. I did and uh I’m going to get my license. Um got my

[4:12] I’m going to get my license. Um got my I’m going to get my license. Um got my license. The problem is I found out you license. The problem is I found out you license. The problem is I found out you need money to buy real estate and need money to buy real estate and need money to buy real estate and [laughter] that was something I did not [laughter] that was something I did not [laughter] that was something I did not have a lot of. And I was 25, just bought have a lot of. And I was 25, just bought have a lot of. And I was 25, just bought a home, pretty broke. So, uh you know, I a home, pretty broke. So, uh you know, I a home, pretty broke. So, uh you know, I had to figure that out. So, of course, had to figure that out. So, of course, had to figure that out. So, of course, like silly me, I’m like, “Let me get like silly me, I’m like, “Let me get like silly me, I’m like, “Let me get two, three more jobs and just work two, three more jobs and just work two, three more jobs and just work nights and evenings and weekends and nights and evenings and weekends and nights and evenings and weekends and save.” And it was never happening. I

[4:36] save.” And it was never happening. I save.” And it was never happening. I mean, we all know what happens. You mean, we all know what happens. You mean, we all know what happens. You something breaks in the house. Your car something breaks in the house. Your car something breaks in the house. Your car stops working. This bill shows up that stops working. This bill shows up that stops working. This bill shows up that wasn’t supposed to show up. The taxes wasn’t supposed to show up. The taxes wasn’t supposed to show up. The taxes were higher than you thought. And it were higher than you thought. And it were higher than you thought. And it just kept going away. And I was in the just kept going away. And I was in the just kept going away. And I was in the same circle. And um just realized like I same circle. And um just realized like I same circle. And um just realized like I I was never going to get out of this I was never going to get out of this I was never going to get out of this unless I tried something different. And unless I tried something different. And unless I tried something different. And then I’m like, well, I have this real

[4:55] then I’m like, well, I have this real then I’m like, well, I have this real estate license. Maybe I should go sell estate license. Maybe I should go sell estate license. Maybe I should go sell real estate. It’s what I want to do real estate. It’s what I want to do real estate. It’s what I want to do anyway. Um, so that’s where I uh I anyway. Um, so that’s where I uh I anyway. Um, so that’s where I uh I started talking to friends, family. Um, started talking to friends, family. Um, started talking to friends, family. Um, didn’t know a lot of people, so had to didn’t know a lot of people, so had to didn’t know a lot of people, so had to find ways to to get in front of a lot of find ways to to get in front of a lot of find ways to to get in front of a lot of people. And people. And people. And >> by 2015, I was so busy. I was going >> by 2015, I was so busy. I was going >> by 2015, I was so busy. I was going running outside on my lunch, on my running outside on my lunch, on my running outside on my lunch, on my breaks, making phone calls, negotiating breaks, making phone calls, negotiating

[5:18] breaks, making phone calls, negotiating deals. deals. deals. >> And I just felt the pull, you know, and >> And I just felt the pull, you know, and >> And I just felt the pull, you know, and it kind of happened organically as well. it kind of happened organically as well. it kind of happened organically as well. while I was hitting a ceiling at the job while I was hitting a ceiling at the job while I was hitting a ceiling at the job I was at and had a great boss. Just I was at and had a great boss. Just I was at and had a great boss. Just wasn’t I was unhappy, you know, you’re wasn’t I was unhappy, you know, you’re wasn’t I was unhappy, you know, you’re you’re in your mid to late 20s. You what you’re in your mid to late 20s. You what you’re in your mid to late 20s. You what am I going to do with the rest of my am I going to do with the rest of my am I going to do with the rest of my life? And uh you’re just I got to get life? And uh you’re just I got to get life? And uh you’re just I got to get out. So, we I decided I pulled the out. So, we I decided I pulled the out. So, we I decided I pulled the trigger. I talked to my my fiance at the

[5:41] trigger. I talked to my my fiance at the trigger. I talked to my my fiance at the time and I said, “Hey, uh I know we have time and I said, “Hey, uh I know we have time and I said, “Hey, uh I know we have a wedding in a year. This is probably a wedding in a year. This is probably a wedding in a year. This is probably not ideal timing, but I want to quit my not ideal timing, but I want to quit my not ideal timing, but I want to quit my job.” And um she said, “Hey, if that’s job.” And um she said, “Hey, if that’s job.” And um she said, “Hey, if that’s what’s going to make you happy, go do what’s going to make you happy, go do what’s going to make you happy, go do it.” You know, credit to her. She she it.” You know, credit to her. She she it.” You know, credit to her. She she she believed in me. Good she believed in me. Good she believed in me. Good >> test. It was a good test, William.

[5:56] >> test. It was a good test, William. >> test. It was a good test, William. >> Yeah. [laughter] And I I I I say this >> Yeah. [laughter] And I I I I say this >> Yeah. [laughter] And I I I I say this because I about six months in, I because I about six months in, I because I about six months in, I thought, man, I need three more jobs, thought, man, I need three more jobs, thought, man, I need three more jobs, right? Like I I was doing all the right? Like I I was doing all the right? Like I I was doing all the things, you know, like door knockocking, things, you know, like door knockocking, things, you know, like door knockocking, expireds, and for sale by owners and expireds, and for sale by owners and expireds, and for sale by owners and online. I was doing everything, running online. I was doing everything, running online. I was doing everything, running out of money. And um I thought, man, I out of money. And um I thought, man, I out of money. And um I thought, man, I got to go drive Uber or do something to got to go drive Uber or do something to got to go drive Uber or do something to make ends meet. And my, you know, now

[6:20] make ends meet. And my, you know, now make ends meet. And my, you know, now wife, then fiance said, she said, “If wife, then fiance said, she said, “If wife, then fiance said, she said, “If you do that, you’ll never commit to you do that, you’ll never commit to you do that, you’ll never commit to this.” this.” this.” >> And this is somebody that she’s a >> And this is somebody that she’s a >> And this is somebody that she’s a teacher. She doesn’t do business. And teacher. She doesn’t do business. And teacher. She doesn’t do business. And >> but she knew me. She knew like if you if >> but she knew me. She knew like if you if >> but she knew me. She knew like if you if I if I went after something else, I I if I went after something else, I I if I went after something else, I would I would fall out of this.

[6:36] would I would fall out of this. would I would fall out of this. >> And I’m I’m happy I didn’t. I mean, that >> And I’m I’m happy I didn’t. I mean, that >> And I’m I’m happy I didn’t. I mean, that that first six months were horrendous, that first six months were horrendous, that first six months were horrendous, but but but >> I got through it. And then my first my >> I got through it. And then my first my >> I got through it. And then my first my full first full year in real estate, I full first full year in real estate, I full first full year in real estate, I sold 36 homes. And then the next year sold 36 homes. And then the next year sold 36 homes. And then the next year 39.

[6:49] 39. 39. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> And in those two years where the >> And in those two years where the >> And in those two years where the investing came back was I was working investing came back was I was working investing came back was I was working with these investor clients who I didn’t with these investor clients who I didn’t with these investor clients who I didn’t know the game. I didn’t understand flips know the game. I didn’t understand flips know the game. I didn’t understand flips really. You know, all I knew was that really. You know, all I knew was that really. You know, all I knew was that Red Rich, right? And um I had these Red Rich, right? And um I had these Red Rich, right? And um I had these investor clients. They’re brothers. They investor clients. They’re brothers. They investor clients. They’re brothers. They seemed like nice guys. And they were seemed like nice guys. And they were seemed like nice guys. And they were like, “Yeah, we have all this cash.

[7:09] like, “Yeah, we have all this cash. like, “Yeah, we have all this cash. We’re looking to do flips.” If you did We’re looking to do flips.” If you did We’re looking to do flips.” If you did real estate pre-COVID, it was pretty real estate pre-COVID, it was pretty real estate pre-COVID, it was pretty easy to find deals, right? Like easy to find deals, right? Like easy to find deals, right? Like >> in any market there were I mean in the >> in any market there were I mean in the >> in any market there were I mean in the best markets around here that you can’t best markets around here that you can’t best markets around here that you can’t buy a house for anything less than 50k buy a house for anything less than 50k buy a house for anything less than 50k over asking anymore. In those markets I over asking anymore. In those markets I over asking anymore. In those markets I was finding deals and I was bringing was finding deals and I was bringing was finding deals and I was bringing them to these guys and they would by them to these guys and they would by them to these guys and they would by like the third one I realized the

[7:31] like the third one I realized the like the third one I realized the pattern. They would be like oh we’re pattern. They would be like oh we’re pattern. They would be like oh we’re losing money on this and you know it’s losing money on this and you know it’s losing money on this and you know it’s not turning into be a good deal and you not turning into be a good deal and you not turning into be a good deal and you know would you like cut your commission know would you like cut your commission know would you like cut your commission and as a new agent I was you know I felt and as a new agent I was you know I felt and as a new agent I was you know I felt bad. I felt terrible. I’m like I want to bad. I felt terrible. I’m like I want to bad. I felt terrible. I’m like I want to help these guys. guys, I want to make it help these guys. guys, I want to make it help these guys. guys, I want to make it work. I worked with them and by the work. I worked with them and by the work. I worked with them and by the third one, I’m like, what what is going third one, I’m like, what what is going third one, I’m like, what what is going on here? Like, there’s no way these

[7:53] on here? Like, there’s no way these on here? Like, there’s no way these three deals were this bad. Like, they three deals were this bad. Like, they three deals were this bad. Like, they were all in some of the top markets were all in some of the top markets were all in some of the top markets around here. And looking back on it now, around here. And looking back on it now, around here. And looking back on it now, I know better. I was getting played, but I know better. I was getting played, but I know better. I was getting played, but back then, didn’t know any, right? So, I back then, didn’t know any, right? So, I back then, didn’t know any, right? So, I decided to get a flip for myself, right?

[8:05] decided to get a flip for myself, right? decided to get a flip for myself, right? Again, no experience. Uh, not a lot of Again, no experience. Uh, not a lot of Again, no experience. Uh, not a lot of money yet. I was doing well in real money yet. I was doing well in real money yet. I was doing well in real estate, but I was just catching up. I estate, but I was just catching up. I estate, but I was just catching up. I was just getting back to green, you was just getting back to green, you was just getting back to green, you know, from all the red. know, from all the red. know, from all the red. >> And uh a property came up and it was in >> And uh a property came up and it was in >> And uh a property came up and it was in a great town, but it was a gigantic a great town, but it was a gigantic a great town, but it was a gigantic project. I mean, way bigger than I project. I mean, way bigger than I project. I mean, way bigger than I should have ever gone for, ever, right?

[8:25] should have ever gone for, ever, right? should have ever gone for, ever, right? Like I Like I Like I >> And I know that now. Um but then 2017, >> And I know that now. Um but then 2017, >> And I know that now. Um but then 2017, I’m like, I’m going to go do this. I’m like, I’m going to go do this. I’m like, I’m going to go do this. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] So I uh I I talked to my sister. I’m So I uh I I talked to my sister. I’m So I uh I I talked to my sister. I’m like, hey, we can figure this out, like, hey, we can figure this out, like, hey, we can figure this out, right? Like you got a little bit of right? Like you got a little bit of right? Like you got a little bit of money. I got a little bit of money.

[8:40] money. I got a little bit of money. money. I got a little bit of money. we’ll do a 203k. I got super creative. I we’ll do a 203k. I got super creative. I we’ll do a 203k. I got super creative. I was one of those people. I probably was one of those people. I probably was one of those people. I probably shouldn’t say that on here. I might get shouldn’t say that on here. I might get shouldn’t say that on here. I might get arrested, but um you know, I I I did arrested, but um you know, I I I did arrested, but um you know, I I I did that and it was a nightmare. It was that and it was a nightmare. It was that and it was a nightmare. It was three years of absolute torture. I made three years of absolute torture. I made three years of absolute torture. I made all the the mistakes. I hired the all the the mistakes. I hired the all the the mistakes. I hired the cheapest contractor and then they took cheapest contractor and then they took cheapest contractor and then they took off and filed bankruptcy. The second off and filed bankruptcy. The second off and filed bankruptcy. The second contractors I had, I thought I did the

[9:02] contractors I had, I thought I did the contractors I had, I thought I did the right thing. I thought I vetted them. I right thing. I thought I vetted them. I right thing. I thought I vetted them. I thought I went to their job sites. Uh thought I went to their job sites. Uh thought I went to their job sites. Uh they demoed the house cuz it was that they demoed the house cuz it was that they demoed the house cuz it was that bad. And when I gave them my first draw bad. And when I gave them my first draw bad. And when I gave them my first draw for framing, they filed bankruptcy. Uh, for framing, they filed bankruptcy. Uh, for framing, they filed bankruptcy. Uh, and then I hired a lawyer who I found and then I hired a lawyer who I found and then I hired a lawyer who I found out was being disbarred when he took my out was being disbarred when he took my out was being disbarred when he took my deposit.

[9:19] deposit. deposit. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> And then finally, like, this is a year >> And then finally, like, this is a year >> And then finally, like, this is a year and a half in, 200k in the hole. and a half in, 200k in the hole. and a half in, 200k in the hole. >> Literally, I was selling houses to just >> Literally, I was selling houses to just >> Literally, I was selling houses to just not go bankrupt, right? Like I was not go bankrupt, right? Like I was not go bankrupt, right? Like I was literally digging every sale I could literally digging every sale I could literally digging every sale I could find to keep up with the debt of this find to keep up with the debt of this find to keep up with the debt of this project. I didn’t want to fail my project. I didn’t want to fail my project. I didn’t want to fail my sister. I didn’t want to fail myself, my sister. I didn’t want to fail myself, my sister. I didn’t want to fail myself, my wife. I wanted to make this work.

[9:43] wife. I wanted to make this work. wife. I wanted to make this work. >> And went back to one of the first >> And went back to one of the first >> And went back to one of the first contractors who was the right bid and contractors who was the right bid and contractors who was the right bid and knowing what I know now, I would have knowing what I know now, I would have knowing what I know now, I would have just hired that guy and he helped me just hired that guy and he helped me just hired that guy and he helped me piece it back together and he, you know, piece it back together and he, you know, piece it back together and he, you know, he came through. I found ways to pay he came through. I found ways to pay he came through. I found ways to pay him. I was literally borrowing off lines him. I was literally borrowing off lines him. I was literally borrowing off lines of credits and, you know, uh, whatever I of credits and, you know, uh, whatever I of credits and, you know, uh, whatever I could to make this work. And finally in could to make this work. And finally in could to make this work. And finally in 2020, March of 2020, the house was

[10:09] 2020, March of 2020, the house was 2020, March of 2020, the house was complete and I put it on the market and complete and I put it on the market and complete and I put it on the market and co it hit [laughter] co it hit [laughter] co it hit [laughter] and I was like, I think I should jump and I was like, I think I should jump and I was like, I think I should jump off the Ben Franklin bridge at this off the Ben Franklin bridge at this off the Ben Franklin bridge at this point, you know, like this is never point, you know, like this is never point, you know, like this is never going to work for me. I I I should just going to work for me. I I I should just going to work for me. I I I should just give up. I I don’t know what I’m doing give up. I I don’t know what I’m doing give up. I I don’t know what I’m doing anymore. Um, so, you know, uh, I moved anymore. Um, so, you know, uh, I moved anymore. Um, so, you know, uh, I moved into the house. [laughter] into the house. [laughter] into the house. [laughter] >> Oh, wow. We we had just had our first >> Oh, wow. We we had just had our first

[10:32] >> Oh, wow. We we had just had our first daughter and I I had literally no way to daughter and I I had literally no way to daughter and I I had literally no way to pay all the debt back. So, I said, pay all the debt back. So, I said, pay all the debt back. So, I said, “Well, I’m going to sell my first home, “Well, I’m going to sell my first home, “Well, I’m going to sell my first home, which I got some good equity on over the which I got some good equity on over the which I got some good equity on over the years and used that to get back to to years and used that to get back to to years and used that to get back to to even.” Um, looking back on it, I’m super even.” Um, looking back on it, I’m super even.” Um, looking back on it, I’m super happy I did that because that house is happy I did that because that house is happy I did that because that house is now worth, you know, 400k more than it now worth, you know, 400k more than it now worth, you know, 400k more than it was in 2020 due to the acceleration of was in 2020 due to the acceleration of was in 2020 due to the acceleration of >> of uh the the market with COVID. Um, and

[10:57] >> of uh the the market with COVID. Um, and >> of uh the the market with COVID. Um, and it was in the in in the time I did it, it was in the in in the time I did it, it was in the in in the time I did it, it was the worst thing ever. I mean, I it was the worst thing ever. I mean, I it was the worst thing ever. I mean, I was, you know, pretty depressed. I, you was, you know, pretty depressed. I, you was, you know, pretty depressed. I, you know, making everything work. It didn’t know, making everything work. It didn’t know, making everything work. It didn’t make life great for three years. But make life great for three years. But make life great for three years. But looking back on it, it gave me the tools looking back on it, it gave me the tools looking back on it, it gave me the tools I needed to do what I’m doing now. And I needed to do what I’m doing now. And I needed to do what I’m doing now. And like I my, you know, my silver lining is like I my, you know, my silver lining is like I my, you know, my silver lining is like it was the it was my bachelor’s like it was the it was my bachelor’s

[11:17] like it was the it was my bachelor’s degree on how not to do real estate, degree on how not to do real estate, degree on how not to do real estate, right? Um, so yeah, I paid for a college right? Um, so yeah, I paid for a college right? Um, so yeah, I paid for a college degree on on how not to do real estate. degree on on how not to do real estate. degree on on how not to do real estate. Well, and so like it’s you didn’t Well, and so like it’s you didn’t Well, and so like it’s you didn’t realize any loss then, right? I mean, realize any loss then, right? I mean, realize any loss then, right? I mean, like you you held it long enough that it like you you held it long enough that it like you you held it long enough that it became became became >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the time, you >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the time, you >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the time, you know, I paid everything off. I paid my know, I paid everything off. I paid my know, I paid everything off. I paid my sister, everyone was back to to to even sister, everyone was back to to to even sister, everyone was back to to to even um and now actually [snorts] because of

[11:43] um and now actually [snorts] because of um and now actually [snorts] because of the acceleration of the equity in the the acceleration of the equity in the the acceleration of the equity in the property, I took a line of credit on the property, I took a line of credit on the property, I took a line of credit on the property and that has helped me property and that has helped me property and that has helped me accelerate my investing as well. Um, so accelerate my investing as well. Um, so accelerate my investing as well. Um, so one lesson learned there is time heals one lesson learned there is time heals one lesson learned there is time heals all wounds, right? Um, all wounds, right? Um, all wounds, right? Um, >> you know, you wait long enough, you’ll >> you know, you wait long enough, you’ll >> you know, you wait long enough, you’ll you’ll you’ll fix this.

[12:00] you’ll you’ll fix this. you’ll you’ll fix this. >> Which, yeah, I mean, like I’m sure if >> Which, yeah, I mean, like I’m sure if >> Which, yeah, I mean, like I’m sure if there was a shortcut or a maybe not a there was a shortcut or a maybe not a there was a shortcut or a maybe not a shortcut, but like a [snorts] you know, shortcut, but like a [snorts] you know, shortcut, but like a [snorts] you know, having somebody help you avoid some of having somebody help you avoid some of having somebody help you avoid some of that pain, you probably would have taken that pain, you probably would have taken that pain, you probably would have taken it at the time. But, um, that’s that’s it at the time. But, um, that’s that’s it at the time. But, um, that’s that’s the kind of the beauty of real estate, the kind of the beauty of real estate, the kind of the beauty of real estate, too, though, is that like it’s it’s too, though, is that like it’s it’s too, though, is that like it’s it’s usually people often think this is a usually people often think this is a usually people often think this is a zero sum game. So, like I’m going to

[12:19] zero sum game. So, like I’m going to zero sum game. So, like I’m going to invest $200,000 on a piece of property. invest $200,000 on a piece of property. invest $200,000 on a piece of property. I could lose all that money. Um, and all I could lose all that money. Um, and all I could lose all that money. Um, and all through that through that whole time, through that through that whole time, through that through that whole time, like that would have never been the case like that would have never been the case like that would have never been the case for you. Um, I mean, when you completely for you. Um, I mean, when you completely for you. Um, I mean, when you completely de demoed the the house and if you would de demoed the the house and if you would de demoed the the house and if you would have sold the land, that might have, you have sold the land, that might have, you have sold the land, that might have, you know, been a pretty big loss, but um, know, been a pretty big loss, but um, know, been a pretty big loss, but um, >> yeah.

[12:36] >> yeah. >> yeah. >> Yeah, you found a way out. And I mean, >> Yeah, you found a way out. And I mean, >> Yeah, you found a way out. And I mean, that I’m sure that’s an amazing lesson that I’m sure that’s an amazing lesson that I’m sure that’s an amazing lesson that you can take with you um, from a that you can take with you um, from a that you can take with you um, from a lot of different things. I mean, lot of different things. I mean, lot of different things. I mean, resilience is is key there, right? resilience is is key there, right? resilience is is key there, right? [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> Yeah. I uh I’m sure you’re aware of Jaco >> Yeah. I uh I’m sure you’re aware of Jaco >> Yeah. I uh I’m sure you’re aware of Jaco Willink, the you know, Navy Seal.

[12:50] Willink, the you know, Navy Seal. Willink, the you know, Navy Seal. Awesome guy, but he’s got that extreme Awesome guy, but he’s got that extreme Awesome guy, but he’s got that extreme ownership thing. And that’s honestly one ownership thing. And that’s honestly one ownership thing. And that’s honestly one of the reasons I I’ve been okay with of the reasons I I’ve been okay with of the reasons I I’ve been okay with what happened is at the end of the day, what happened is at the end of the day, what happened is at the end of the day, I chose to do that flip. At the end of I chose to do that flip. At the end of I chose to do that flip. At the end of the day, I chose those contractors. At the day, I chose those contractors. At the day, I chose those contractors. At the end of the day, I wrote those the end of the day, I wrote those the end of the day, I wrote those checks. And I even chose a lawyer when checks. And I even chose a lawyer when checks. And I even chose a lawyer when three other lawyers told me not to do three other lawyers told me not to do three other lawyers told me not to do it, right? Um and uh you can’t pierce

[13:14] it, right? Um and uh you can’t pierce it, right? Um and uh you can’t pierce the corporate veil. What do I know? Uh, the corporate veil. What do I know? Uh, the corporate veil. What do I know? Uh, so that’s the way I looked at it was so that’s the way I looked at it was so that’s the way I looked at it was this is on me. I’m a grown-up. I need to this is on me. I’m a grown-up. I need to this is on me. I’m a grown-up. I need to dig my way out of this. And I did. Um, dig my way out of this. And I did. Um, dig my way out of this. And I did. Um, and it, you know, made right by and it, you know, made right by and it, you know, made right by everyone. No one was ever wrong by but everyone. No one was ever wrong by but everyone. No one was ever wrong by but me. And, um, you know, and look looking me. And, um, you know, and look looking me. And, um, you know, and look looking back on it, like I said, I I now am back on it, like I said, I I now am back on it, like I said, I I now am super honest with every investor I meet.

[13:37] super honest with every investor I meet. super honest with every investor I meet. And I run a a seminar called Grid Delo. And I run a a seminar called Grid Delo. And I run a a seminar called Grid Delo. It’s once a month and I have it, you It’s once a month and I have it, you It’s once a month and I have it, you know, it’s through Zoom and in person. know, it’s through Zoom and in person. know, it’s through Zoom and in person. And I don’t get the biggest following And I don’t get the biggest following And I don’t get the biggest following cuz people come, but a lot of times they cuz people come, but a lot of times they cuz people come, but a lot of times they don’t come back. And I’m not scaring don’t come back. And I’m not scaring don’t come back. And I’m not scaring them to a point, but I am being just them to a point, but I am being just them to a point, but I am being just honest. I’m not selling the fluff.

[13:55] honest. I’m not selling the fluff. honest. I’m not selling the fluff. Right. Right. Right. >> Right. Like you see on Instagram the >> Right. Like you see on Instagram the >> Right. Like you see on Instagram the Bugattis and here’s how I bought 7,000 Bugattis and here’s how I bought 7,000 Bugattis and here’s how I bought 7,000 Doors and you’re like, that’s not what Doors and you’re like, that’s not what Doors and you’re like, that’s not what this is, right? Like in in my this is, right? Like in in my this is, right? Like in in my experience, real estate investing is experience, real estate investing is experience, real estate investing is just another version of a 401k, right?

[14:11] just another version of a 401k, right? just another version of a 401k, right? It is a long-term investment that you’re It is a long-term investment that you’re It is a long-term investment that you’re putting money into and if you’re running putting money into and if you’re running putting money into and if you’re running it correctly, which was another thing it correctly, which was another thing it correctly, which was another thing I’ve had to make adjustments for in my I’ve had to make adjustments for in my I’ve had to make adjustments for in my business since, and I’ll talk about business since, and I’ll talk about business since, and I’ll talk about that, but it can be very profitable over that, but it can be very profitable over that, but it can be very profitable over time and the equity and the depreciation time and the equity and the depreciation time and the equity and the depreciation and all of that will add up. But if and all of that will add up. But if and all of that will add up. But if you’re not willing to put five years of you’re not willing to put five years of you’re not willing to put five years of sweat,

[14:34] sweat, sweat, >> even if you’re not physically doing the >> even if you’re not physically doing the >> even if you’re not physically doing the work, if you’re not willing to put in work, if you’re not willing to put in work, if you’re not willing to put in that five years, don’t do this. Right? that five years, don’t do this. Right? that five years, don’t do this. Right? like just keep investing in, you know, like just keep investing in, you know, like just keep investing in, you know, the S&P 500 and the S&P 500 and the S&P 500 and >> true. It’s true for sales, too. I mean, >> true. It’s true for sales, too. I mean, >> true. It’s true for sales, too. I mean, I think like you really there’s usually I think like you really there’s usually I think like you really there’s usually a grind phase where you just have to be a grind phase where you just have to be a grind phase where you just have to be okay with um you know, get feeling like okay with um you know, get feeling like okay with um you know, get feeling like you’re you’re just climbing uphill

[14:53] you’re you’re just climbing uphill you’re you’re just climbing uphill constantly without any kind of reward constantly without any kind of reward constantly without any kind of reward and then and then things start turning. and then and then things start turning. and then and then things start turning. Um, I mean, I think that you could, you Um, I mean, I think that you could, you Um, I mean, I think that you could, you know, if you if you did the house hack know, if you if you did the house hack know, if you if you did the house hack model, um, where you’re just putting low model, um, where you’re just putting low model, um, where you’re just putting low low money down, saving up for the next low money down, saving up for the next low money down, saving up for the next house, moving and and just, you know, I house, moving and and just, you know, I house, moving and and just, you know, I think the hard part there, especially if think the hard part there, especially if think the hard part there, especially if you’re like building up a sales career, you’re like building up a sales career,

[15:10] you’re like building up a sales career, is that you’re going to want to buy a is that you’re going to want to buy a is that you’re going to want to buy a nicer house than the one that would make nicer house than the one that would make nicer house than the one that would make a good rental. U, but I think that model a good rental. U, but I think that model a good rental. U, but I think that model um could be really good. And I, you um could be really good. And I, you um could be really good. And I, you know, I think for a lot of agents who know, I think for a lot of agents who know, I think for a lot of agents who may not want to be like full-time may not want to be like full-time may not want to be like full-time investors, they just want to have that investors, they just want to have that investors, they just want to have that 401k. Um, I don’t think there’s anything 401k. Um, I don’t think there’s anything 401k. Um, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with base hits. Like I think wrong with base hits. Like I think wrong with base hits. Like I think people don’t need to get the perfect

[15:28] people don’t need to get the perfect people don’t need to get the perfect burr. They don’t need to do um all that, burr. They don’t need to do um all that, burr. They don’t need to do um all that, especially at the beginning. Like I mean especially at the beginning. Like I mean especially at the beginning. Like I mean I think if you if you start slower um I think if you if you start slower um I think if you if you start slower um you can build up that equity like you you can build up that equity like you you can build up that equity like you said, get equity line of credit on the said, get equity line of credit on the said, get equity line of credit on the property um and then use that to help property um and then use that to help property um and then use that to help fund other deals. Typically you need a fund other deals. Typically you need a fund other deals. Typically you need a lot of cash to to to invest in a fixer lot of cash to to to invest in a fixer lot of cash to to to invest in a fixer upper. It’s going to be a foreclosure or upper. It’s going to be a foreclosure or upper. It’s going to be a foreclosure or or whatever and it’s often you know two

[15:49] or whatever and it’s often you know two or whatever and it’s often you know two weeks cash close. Um, so like yeah, if weeks cash close. Um, so like yeah, if weeks cash close. Um, so like yeah, if you start with the smaller hits, um, and you start with the smaller hits, um, and you start with the smaller hits, um, and and if you don’t even get to the more and if you don’t even get to the more and if you don’t even get to the more complicated stuff, like if you’re complicated stuff, like if you’re complicated stuff, like if you’re especially if you’re in an appreciation especially if you’re in an appreciation especially if you’re in an appreciation heavy market, like you’re going to heavy market, like you’re going to heavy market, like you’re going to probably beat the S&P 500 just by probably beat the S&P 500 just by probably beat the S&P 500 just by sitting on the the real estate. I I just sitting on the the real estate. I I just sitting on the the real estate. I I just did some analysis in my local market. I did some analysis in my local market. I did some analysis in my local market. I was able to find, we have a blogger that

[16:09] was able to find, we have a blogger that was able to find, we have a blogger that does a really detailed analysis. I was does a really detailed analysis. I was does a really detailed analysis. I was able to find the median sales price back able to find the median sales price back able to find the median sales price back to uh 2000. Um, and I was like, okay, if to uh 2000. Um, and I was like, okay, if to uh 2000. Um, and I was like, okay, if somebody just did 20% down, bought a uh somebody just did 20% down, bought a uh somebody just did 20% down, bought a uh bought a property back then, um, held on bought a property back then, um, held on bought a property back then, um, held on to it until now, so 25 years versus took to it until now, so 25 years versus took to it until now, so 25 years versus took that down payment and put it into the that down payment and put it into the that down payment and put it into the S&P 500. Um, so the down payment, it was S&P 500. Um, so the down payment, it was S&P 500. Um, so the down payment, it was like, uh, 116 was the purchase price, so

[16:33] like, uh, 116 was the purchase price, so like, uh, 116 was the purchase price, so the down payment was like 23,000, the down payment was like 23,000, the down payment was like 23,000, something like that. Um, and then that something like that. Um, and then that something like that. Um, and then that 23,000 in the S&P 500 grew to like 178, 23,000 in the S&P 500 grew to like 178, 23,000 in the S&P 500 grew to like 178, some somewhere in that ballpark. uh some somewhere in that ballpark. uh some somewhere in that ballpark. uh where the median sales price now is where the median sales price now is where the median sales price now is around 350. Um so if you don’t even around 350. Um so if you don’t even around 350. Um so if you don’t even factor in any of the cash flow um any of factor in any of the cash flow um any of factor in any of the cash flow um any of the depreciation u you know you’re the depreciation u you know you’re the depreciation u you know you’re sitting at a pretty big difference you sitting at a pretty big difference you sitting at a pretty big difference you may not have the mortgage fully paid

[16:57] may not have the mortgage fully paid may not have the mortgage fully paid off. There’s five more years in a off. There’s five more years in a off. There’s five more years in a 30-year mortgage but obviously that’s 30-year mortgage but obviously that’s 30-year mortgage but obviously that’s done a lot better. Um, so even just done a lot better. Um, so even just done a lot better. Um, so even just sitting on like if if agents would get sitting on like if if agents would get sitting on like if if agents would get like five houses and just sit on them. like five houses and just sit on them. like five houses and just sit on them. Like let if if you’re going to get out Like let if if you’re going to get out Like let if if you’re going to get out of the game because you can’t handle the of the game because you can’t handle the of the game because you can’t handle the tenants, you don’t want to manage them tenants, you don’t want to manage them tenants, you don’t want to manage them yourself, try that out. Like don’t fix yourself, try that out. Like don’t fix yourself, try that out. Like don’t fix the toilets. That’s something that I

[17:15] the toilets. That’s something that I the toilets. That’s something that I drew a line on. I’m like, I’m not fixing drew a line on. I’m like, I’m not fixing drew a line on. I’m like, I’m not fixing toilets. That’s going to make me hate my toilets. That’s going to make me hate my toilets. That’s going to make me hate my life and [laughter] life and [laughter] life and [laughter] I’m going to use my rentals. I’m going to use my rentals. I’m going to use my rentals. >> So because it’s not about now, it’s not >> So because it’s not about now, it’s not >> So because it’s not about now, it’s not about getting that Bugatti now. It’s, about getting that Bugatti now. It’s, about getting that Bugatti now. It’s, you know, down the line it’s going to be you know, down the line it’s going to be you know, down the line it’s going to be worth a lot more.

[17:29] worth a lot more. worth a lot more. >> Yeah. And look, I’m I’m not all poo poo. >> Yeah. And look, I’m I’m not all poo poo. >> Yeah. And look, I’m I’m not all poo poo. I uh I love the Burr method. It’s what I uh I love the Burr method. It’s what I uh I love the Burr method. It’s what I’ve done for the last five years. Um I I’ve done for the last five years. Um I I’ve done for the last five years. Um I have we have 70 doors. I’ve done have we have 70 doors. I’ve done have we have 70 doors. I’ve done probably 12 flips. probably 12 flips. probably 12 flips. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And about 20 properties total throughout >> And about 20 properties total throughout >> And about 20 properties total throughout Pennsylvania. I don’t I haven’t invested Pennsylvania. I don’t I haven’t invested Pennsylvania. I don’t I haven’t invested in other states yet. I still kind of in other states yet. I still kind of in other states yet. I still kind of like the control aspect.

[17:51] like the control aspect. like the control aspect. >> Sure. Um, and I’ve had really not the >> Sure. Um, and I’ve had really not the >> Sure. Um, and I’ve had really not the best luck with property managers. So, I best luck with property managers. So, I best luck with property managers. So, I I like to pseudo manage, partially I like to pseudo manage, partially I like to pseudo manage, partially manage my own property still. I think manage my own property still. I think manage my own property still. I think that’s probably more a control thing for that’s probably more a control thing for that’s probably more a control thing for me than anything. me than anything. me than anything. >> I’m the same way. Yeah.

[18:05] >> I’m the same way. Yeah. >> I’m the same way. Yeah. >> Yeah. I just I don’t think anyone’s >> Yeah. I just I don’t think anyone’s >> Yeah. I just I don’t think anyone’s going to take the kind of care of it going to take the kind of care of it going to take the kind of care of it that I will, you know, like I’m going to that I will, you know, like I’m going to that I will, you know, like I’m going to drive by a couple times a year and make drive by a couple times a year and make drive by a couple times a year and make sure there’s not vines growing up the sure there’s not vines growing up the sure there’s not vines growing up the wall. And, you know, and I found it just wall. And, you know, and I found it just wall. And, you know, and I found it just happened over and over and over again.

[18:18] happened over and over and over again. happened over and over and over again. And I just couldn’t. I mean, I lost a And I just couldn’t. I mean, I lost a And I just couldn’t. I mean, I lost a lot of money because of property lot of money because of property lot of money because of property managers. Um, but that all being said, managers. Um, but that all being said, managers. Um, but that all being said, >> I didn’t stop, right? That getting >> I didn’t stop, right? That getting >> I didn’t stop, right? That getting through that and whilst that was through that and whilst that was through that and whilst that was happening, I did a couple smaller happening, I did a couple smaller happening, I did a couple smaller transactions that were good. Um, getting transactions that were good. Um, getting transactions that were good. Um, getting through that and learning that honestly through that and learning that honestly through that and learning that honestly earned me a lot more respect than earned me a lot more respect than earned me a lot more respect than anything else.

[18:39] anything else. anything else. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> And from that, I had clients who knew >> And from that, I had clients who knew >> And from that, I had clients who knew me, knew my story from it. and I was me, knew my story from it. and I was me, knew my story from it. and I was being really honest about it and they being really honest about it and they being really honest about it and they were like, hey, we’re thinking about were like, hey, we’re thinking about were like, hey, we’re thinking about this real estate investing thing. Uh, this real estate investing thing. Uh, this real estate investing thing. Uh, you know, would you want to partner? And you know, would you want to partner? And you know, would you want to partner? And I’m like, me? I was [laughter] like, do I’m like, me? I was [laughter] like, do I’m like, me? I was [laughter] like, do you care? I just told you. And they’re you care? I just told you. And they’re you care? I just told you. And they’re like, well, you you know, you obviously like, well, you you know, you obviously

[18:56] like, well, you you know, you obviously learned a lot. You know, more than we learned a lot. You know, more than we learned a lot. You know, more than we do, and we think you’re going to take do, and we think you’re going to take do, and we think you’re going to take this somewhere. And I’m like, okay. Um, this somewhere. And I’m like, okay. Um, this somewhere. And I’m like, okay. Um, and here we are five years later, you and here we are five years later, you and here we are five years later, you know, a lot of equity, a lot of know, a lot of equity, a lot of know, a lot of equity, a lot of depreciation that helps me as a business depreciation that helps me as a business depreciation that helps me as a business owner. Um, cash flow is great. But the owner. Um, cash flow is great. But the owner. Um, cash flow is great. But the one thing I would say to people that do one thing I would say to people that do one thing I would say to people that do burrs, and this is one thing I learned, burrs, and this is one thing I learned, burrs, and this is one thing I learned, um, is that, yeah, the burr is awesome.

[19:18] um, is that, yeah, the burr is awesome. um, is that, yeah, the burr is awesome. I It’s my favorite type of real estate I It’s my favorite type of real estate I It’s my favorite type of real estate investing. investing. investing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That being said, you can’t just do burrs >> That being said, you can’t just do burrs >> That being said, you can’t just do burrs because they’re never perfect, right? because they’re never perfect, right? because they’re never perfect, right? Like, it’s rare, even if it’s a 10 unit, Like, it’s rare, even if it’s a 10 unit, Like, it’s rare, even if it’s a 10 unit, 11 unit building, that you have the cap 11 unit building, that you have the cap 11 unit building, that you have the cap rate perfect and you do the math exactly rate perfect and you do the math exactly rate perfect and you do the math exactly right and you’re really good at this and right and you’re really good at this and right and you’re really good at this and you know how to do it. even at my like you know how to do it. even at my like

[19:38] you know how to do it. even at my like where I’m at or even super successful where I’m at or even super successful where I’m at or even super successful investors that are doing a lot more than investors that are doing a lot more than investors that are doing a lot more than I am, you’re going to leave money in it, I am, you’re going to leave money in it, I am, you’re going to leave money in it, right? Like you’re going to it usually right? Like you’re going to it usually right? Like you’re going to it usually happens and if you’re constantly doing happens and if you’re constantly doing happens and if you’re constantly doing burrs, that money is coming from you, burrs, that money is coming from you, burrs, that money is coming from you, right? So that year that you would have right? So that year that you would have right? So that year that you would have maybe made X amount, you’re making less maybe made X amount, you’re making less maybe made X amount, you’re making less to hold that burr.

[19:57] to hold that burr. to hold that burr. >> So I’ve learned that we had to switch >> So I’ve learned that we had to switch >> So I’ve learned that we had to switch our cadence up where it was instead of our cadence up where it was instead of our cadence up where it was instead of just burr burr burr, it’d be burr flip just burr burr burr, it’d be burr flip just burr burr burr, it’d be burr flip burr flip burr flip or you know two burr flip burr flip or you know two burr flip burr flip or you know two flips while we’re doing a burr. And that flips while we’re doing a burr. And that flips while we’re doing a burr. And that has changed the entire game, has changed the entire game, has changed the entire game, >> you know, because I found that now the >> you know, because I found that now the >> you know, because I found that now the the burrs, the the flips are the income the burrs, the the flips are the income the burrs, the the flips are the income to our business, to our business, to our business, >> right?

[20:17] >> right? >> right? >> Right. And just doing burrs, you’re not >> Right. And just doing burrs, you’re not >> Right. And just doing burrs, you’re not actually making any income until you’ve actually making any income until you’ve actually making any income until you’ve turned them over. So, in the meantime, turned them over. So, in the meantime, turned them over. So, in the meantime, you’re just expenses. Yeah. you’re just expenses. Yeah. you’re just expenses. Yeah. >> So, I’ve once we changed that up, it was >> So, I’ve once we changed that up, it was >> So, I’ve once we changed that up, it was a game changer. And again, I learned a game changer. And again, I learned a game changer. And again, I learned that along the way. Um, I know a lot of that along the way. Um, I know a lot of that along the way. Um, I know a lot of people don’t like flips. I get it.

[20:36] people don’t like flips. I get it. people don’t like flips. I get it. Great. You got to pay taxes. Sucks. Great. You got to pay taxes. Sucks. Great. You got to pay taxes. Sucks. >> Yeah. Well, well, I was going to say too >> Yeah. Well, well, I was going to say too >> Yeah. Well, well, I was going to say too though, like with that that method, though, like with that that method, though, like with that that method, you’re going to be able to, you know, you’re going to be able to, you know, you’re going to be able to, you know, have some accelerated depreciation from have some accelerated depreciation from have some accelerated depreciation from those burrs that you’re holding. Um, those burrs that you’re holding. Um, those burrs that you’re holding. Um, that can help offset the profit from the that can help offset the profit from the that can help offset the profit from the flips. Um, if people don’t understand flips. Um, if people don’t understand flips. Um, if people don’t understand what a burr is, it’s basically a flip, what a burr is, it’s basically a flip, what a burr is, it’s basically a flip, but instead of selling it, you’re

[20:52] but instead of selling it, you’re but instead of selling it, you’re refinancing it, and you’re trying to get refinancing it, and you’re trying to get refinancing it, and you’re trying to get all your money back out that you put all your money back out that you put all your money back out that you put into it. So, the equity that you create into it. So, the equity that you create into it. So, the equity that you create by making it nicer is uh what you by making it nicer is uh what you by making it nicer is uh what you ideally keep in the property um and and ideally keep in the property um and and ideally keep in the property um and and get the money out through a a cash out get the money out through a a cash out get the money out through a a cash out refinance. Um and and then yeah, doing refinance. Um and and then yeah, doing refinance. Um and and then yeah, doing the accelerated depreciation can help the accelerated depreciation can help the accelerated depreciation can help offset your you know your your offset your you know your your offset your you know your your commission. Um but also like that that

[21:11] commission. Um but also like that that commission. Um but also like that that flip um income as well. So I mean is flip um income as well. So I mean is flip um income as well. So I mean is that makes sense to have that kind of that makes sense to have that kind of that makes sense to have that kind of mix. Um we don’t have a huge market and mix. Um we don’t have a huge market and mix. Um we don’t have a huge market and it’s been harder and harder to find it’s been harder and harder to find it’s been harder and harder to find deals around here. Um but typically my deals around here. Um but typically my deals around here. Um but typically my cadence was, you know, the ones that I cadence was, you know, the ones that I cadence was, you know, the ones that I was in an area I liked, what I want to was in an area I liked, what I want to was in an area I liked, what I want to keep longterm, I was going to do a burr keep longterm, I was going to do a burr keep longterm, I was going to do a burr on it. And the ones that weren’t as on it. And the ones that weren’t as on it. And the ones that weren’t as ideal for me to keep, I would, you know,

[21:33] ideal for me to keep, I would, you know, ideal for me to keep, I would, you know, flip and sell. So, um, not intentionally flip and sell. So, um, not intentionally flip and sell. So, um, not intentionally that way necessarily, like, but that’s that way necessarily, like, but that’s that way necessarily, like, but that’s kind of the cadence that we were going kind of the cadence that we were going kind of the cadence that we were going to. to. to. >> No, that’s you, you know, like you >> No, that’s you, you know, like you >> No, that’s you, you know, like you figured it out, you know, way way I figured it out, you know, way way I figured it out, you know, way way I guess way quicker than I did. But, um, guess way quicker than I did. But, um, guess way quicker than I did. But, um, and, you know, I I think I feel like I’m and, you know, I I think I feel like I’m and, you know, I I think I feel like I’m falling backwards into being a falling backwards into being a falling backwards into being a successful business person, you know, successful business person, you know, successful business person, you know, like failing forward or whatever. I do

[21:55] like failing forward or whatever. I do like failing forward or whatever. I do it all the wrong ways before I get to it all the wrong ways before I get to it all the wrong ways before I get to the right way. Uh, and I think that’s the right way. Uh, and I think that’s the right way. Uh, and I think that’s great because it also I teach my great because it also I teach my great because it also I teach my investor clients, my agents how not to investor clients, my agents how not to investor clients, my agents how not to do it because I’ve done it all the wrong do it because I’ve done it all the wrong do it because I’ve done it all the wrong ways, right? So, they’re accelerating so ways, right? So, they’re accelerating so ways, right? So, they’re accelerating so much faster than the 10 years it took me much faster than the 10 years it took me much faster than the 10 years it took me to get where I’m at because I can help to get where I’m at because I can help to get where I’m at because I can help them sidestep all of the these errors, them sidestep all of the these errors, them sidestep all of the these errors, right? Uh, and you learn, you know, I’ve

[22:19] right? Uh, and you learn, you know, I’ve right? Uh, and you learn, you know, I’ve walked into properties eight years ago walked into properties eight years ago walked into properties eight years ago where I’m like, ah, this doesn’t look where I’m like, ah, this doesn’t look where I’m like, ah, this doesn’t look right. And now I’ll walk into that right. And now I’ll walk into that right. And now I’ll walk into that property and lose it on the contract. property and lose it on the contract. property and lose it on the contract. What is going on here? Why is, you know, What is going on here? Why is, you know, What is going on here? Why is, you know, you’re you’re basically putting up you’re you’re basically putting up you’re you’re basically putting up drywall to get to the next draw. You drywall to get to the next draw. You drywall to get to the next draw. You know, I know what to look for now. I know, I know what to look for now. I know, I know what to look for now. I know what these the games these guys know what these the games these guys know what these the games these guys play. Um, and I know when to call people

[22:37] play. Um, and I know when to call people play. Um, and I know when to call people out on it. And you have to have that out on it. And you have to have that out on it. And you have to have that experience. And like you said, this is experience. And like you said, this is experience. And like you said, this is probably something again I learned way probably something again I learned way probably something again I learned way too late. Um, get a coach, you know, too late. Um, get a coach, you know, too late. Um, get a coach, you know, like like like >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> get a coach. like it would just it it I >> get a coach. like it would just it it I >> get a coach. like it would just it it I I I truly did not in every aspect of my I I truly did not in every aspect of my I I truly did not in every aspect of my life didn’t appreciate what coaching life didn’t appreciate what coaching life didn’t appreciate what coaching does for you, right? Uh in my real does for you, right? Uh in my real does for you, right? Uh in my real estate sales business, I thought I could

[23:01] estate sales business, I thought I could estate sales business, I thought I could figure this out. I could listen to the figure this out. I could listen to the figure this out. I could listen to the podcast, blah blah blah. I did a couple podcast, blah blah blah. I did a couple podcast, blah blah blah. I did a couple coaching things, they weren’t great. coaching things, they weren’t great. coaching things, they weren’t great. >> Finally got a good coach and it was to >> Finally got a good coach and it was to >> Finally got a good coach and it was to the moon, right? Uh like literally the moon, right? Uh like literally the moon, right? Uh like literally giving me I think successful people are giving me I think successful people are giving me I think successful people are going to be successful. I think a coach going to be successful. I think a coach going to be successful. I think a coach gets you there faster, right? And the gets you there faster, right? And the gets you there faster, right? And the same thing with like your physical same thing with like your physical

[23:19] same thing with like your physical health and with investing in real health and with investing in real health and with investing in real estate. If I had gotten a coach, I estate. If I had gotten a coach, I estate. If I had gotten a coach, I probably would be, I don’t know, five probably would be, I don’t know, five probably would be, I don’t know, five times where I’m at right now. Not times where I’m at right now. Not times where I’m at right now. Not regretting it because, you know, I made regretting it because, you know, I made regretting it because, you know, I made some really good connections along the some really good connections along the some really good connections along the way and I have great friends that I way and I have great friends that I way and I have great friends that I invest with and I really looking back on invest with and I really looking back on invest with and I really looking back on it loved every way everything that’s it loved every way everything that’s it loved every way everything that’s played out and I’m happy with where I’m played out and I’m happy with where I’m

[23:37] played out and I’m happy with where I’m at now. Um, but if I had gotten a coach, at now. Um, but if I had gotten a coach, at now. Um, but if I had gotten a coach, maybe I’d be in a different space. And maybe I’d be in a different space. And maybe I’d be in a different space. And >> I don’t personally have like uh the >> I don’t personally have like uh the >> I don’t personally have like uh the dreams of retiring and living off my dreams of retiring and living off my dreams of retiring and living off my rental income. I think I’d probably go rental income. I think I’d probably go rental income. I think I’d probably go crazy if I had nothing to do. Um, but I crazy if I had nothing to do. Um, but I crazy if I had nothing to do. Um, but I do like the idea of all of my expenses do like the idea of all of my expenses do like the idea of all of my expenses being completely covered and knowing I’m being completely covered and knowing I’m being completely covered and knowing I’m waking up today, not worrying about waking up today, not worrying about waking up today, not worrying about having my team sell, you know, 20 homes

[24:01] having my team sell, you know, 20 homes having my team sell, you know, 20 homes this month. this month. this month. >> That’s like the underlying one of the >> That’s like the underlying one of the >> That’s like the underlying one of the underlying concepts of the book I’m underlying concepts of the book I’m underlying concepts of the book I’m writing. It’s it’s like, you know, if if writing. It’s it’s like, you know, if if writing. It’s it’s like, you know, if if you’re able to kind of not level up your you’re able to kind of not level up your you’re able to kind of not level up your lifestyle and try to, you know, replace lifestyle and try to, you know, replace lifestyle and try to, you know, replace it with passive income. Um passive uh it with passive income. Um passive uh it with passive income. Um passive uh [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] your properties, they’re not passive. Um your properties, they’re not passive. Um your properties, they’re not passive. Um but but you know, like that that can but but you know, like that that can but but you know, like that that can really make you a lot more fearless. Um

[24:23] really make you a lot more fearless. Um really make you a lot more fearless. Um a lot more indestructible in this a lot more indestructible in this a lot more indestructible in this industry. I mean, like you know, the industry. I mean, like you know, the industry. I mean, like you know, the market uh talk to people all over the market uh talk to people all over the market uh talk to people all over the country and and you know, depending on country and and you know, depending on country and and you know, depending on who I’m talking to, where they’re at, who I’m talking to, where they’re at, who I’m talking to, where they’re at, like there’s some doom and gloom um like there’s some doom and gloom um like there’s some doom and gloom um happening in the market. Florida, happening in the market. Florida, happening in the market. Florida, Arizona, there’s places where people are Arizona, there’s places where people are Arizona, there’s places where people are like, “Yeah, it’s vastly different when like, “Yeah, it’s vastly different when like, “Yeah, it’s vastly different when I talk to somebody else.” And um you

[24:42] I talk to somebody else.” And um you I talk to somebody else.” And um you know, like if if your if your basis is know, like if if your if your basis is know, like if if your if your basis is are covered, you’re going to be in the are covered, you’re going to be in the are covered, you’re going to be in the business longer. Um so it just it makes business longer. Um so it just it makes business longer. Um so it just it makes a ton of sense. And that you know, it’s a ton of sense. And that you know, it’s a ton of sense. And that you know, it’s al I don’t know if you ever do this, but al I don’t know if you ever do this, but al I don’t know if you ever do this, but like looking at kind of what you know like looking at kind of what you know like looking at kind of what you know what the total amount of rent that comes what the total amount of rent that comes what the total amount of rent that comes in every month, like it’s like this in every month, like it’s like this in every month, like it’s like this insane money. Obviously, it’s like going insane money. Obviously, it’s like going insane money. Obviously, it’s like going to debt service, but it’s kind of like

[25:00] to debt service, but it’s kind of like to debt service, but it’s kind of like this cool like whoa, that’s crazy. Like this cool like whoa, that’s crazy. Like this cool like whoa, that’s crazy. Like I kind of control this much capital I kind of control this much capital I kind of control this much capital moving around. um or the amount of debt moving around. um or the amount of debt moving around. um or the amount of debt payoff you have every month is another payoff you have every month is another payoff you have every month is another or year by year. It’s another fun thing or year by year. It’s another fun thing or year by year. It’s another fun thing to to look at from time to time. Um most to to look at from time to time. Um most to to look at from time to time. Um most you know if you’re getting into you know if you’re getting into you know if you’re getting into commercial lending at all, you’re going commercial lending at all, you’re going commercial lending at all, you’re going to have to like provide a statement to have to like provide a statement to have to like provide a statement where you’re you’re kind of adding up

[25:18] where you’re you’re kind of adding up where you’re you’re kind of adding up your your net worth and um you know, your your net worth and um you know, your your net worth and um you know, hands down the real estate appreciation hands down the real estate appreciation hands down the real estate appreciation that’s happened for me uh over the years that’s happened for me uh over the years that’s happened for me uh over the years is where my net worth is. And if I was is where my net worth is. And if I was is where my net worth is. And if I was just in sales, like I mean it would not just in sales, like I mean it would not just in sales, like I mean it would not be half. wouldn’t I don’t even know if be half. wouldn’t I don’t even know if be half. wouldn’t I don’t even know if it’ be a quarter of where it’s at. So it’ be a quarter of where it’s at. So it’ be a quarter of where it’s at. So >> yeah, I it it’s >> yeah, I it it’s >> yeah, I it it’s >> it’s obvious once it starts to stack, >> it’s obvious once it starts to stack, >> it’s obvious once it starts to stack, right?

[25:41] right? right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it’s really hard not to quit when >> And it’s really hard not to quit when >> And it’s really hard not to quit when it’s not stacking. And it’s not stacking. And it’s not stacking. And >> that to me is the lesson that I, you >> that to me is the lesson that I, you >> that to me is the lesson that I, you know, I try to impart on my agents, know, I try to impart on my agents, know, I try to impart on my agents, everyone that comes comes to me for everyone that comes comes to me for everyone that comes comes to me for investing. It’s like, listen, I I can’t investing. It’s like, listen, I I can’t investing. It’s like, listen, I I can’t tell you this is going to be great. It tell you this is going to be great. It tell you this is going to be great. It probably isn’t. You’re going to have probably isn’t. You’re going to have probably isn’t. You’re going to have some days, you know, you’re going to some days, you know, you’re going to some days, you know, you’re going to have some rough days. Like it’s but if

[26:02] have some rough days. Like it’s but if have some rough days. Like it’s but if you stick with it and you continue along you stick with it and you continue along you stick with it and you continue along your path, you’re going to realize your path, you’re going to realize your path, you’re going to realize you’re looking back and you’re like, how you’re looking back and you’re like, how you’re looking back and you’re like, how much equity do I have? [clears throat] much equity do I have? [clears throat] much equity do I have? [clears throat] Wait, what? And now it starts to become Wait, what? And now it starts to become Wait, what? And now it starts to become fun because yeah, maybe you bought we fun because yeah, maybe you bought we fun because yeah, maybe you bought we have an 11 unit in the town that hey, I have an 11 unit in the town that hey, I have an 11 unit in the town that hey, I don’t love owning a property and so I I don’t love owning a property and so I I don’t love owning a property and so I I I had a a property manager there for a I had a a property manager there for a I had a a property manager there for a while and like I said, that didn’t work

[26:23] while and like I said, that didn’t work while and like I said, that didn’t work great. But but now I’m looking at the great. But but now I’m looking at the great. But but now I’m looking at the equity in that property after four years equity in that property after four years equity in that property after four years of ownership. Yeah, of ownership. Yeah, of ownership. Yeah, >> wait a minute. I can sell this 1031 it >> wait a minute. I can sell this 1031 it >> wait a minute. I can sell this 1031 it and put it into a building in a and put it into a building in a and put it into a building in a neighborhood I want to be in. neighborhood I want to be in. neighborhood I want to be in. >> Yeah.

[26:35] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. And now I don’t have to. And that >> Right. And now I don’t have to. And that >> Right. And now I don’t have to. And that was a burr that has paid for itself over was a burr that has paid for itself over was a burr that has paid for itself over time. And now I’m going to buy a time. And now I’m going to buy a time. And now I’m going to buy a building with found money. Yeah. Right. building with found money. Yeah. Right. building with found money. Yeah. Right. And that’s like where it gets fun. Once And that’s like where it gets fun. Once And that’s like where it gets fun. Once you start playing Monopoly, it gets fun. you start playing Monopoly, it gets fun.

[26:48] you start playing Monopoly, it gets fun. Right. Right. Right. >> Exactly. You can you can do things like >> Exactly. You can you can do things like >> Exactly. You can you can do things like like you said uh 1031 into other like you said uh 1031 into other like you said uh 1031 into other investments. Um you can look at investments. Um you can look at investments. Um you can look at syndications. Uh I mean you could I syndications. Uh I mean you could I syndications. Uh I mean you could I guess otherwise. Um but you could also guess otherwise. Um but you could also guess otherwise. Um but you could also um you know triple net leases for um you know triple net leases for um you know triple net leases for example is another uh way where you can example is another uh way where you can example is another uh way where you can you can have a lot less headache um in you can have a lot less headache um in you can have a lot less headache um in in the day-to-day. So yeah, no it’s it’s in the day-to-day. So yeah, no it’s it’s in the day-to-day. So yeah, no it’s it’s definitely a you got to be able to delay

[27:12] definitely a you got to be able to delay definitely a you got to be able to delay gratification. You got to be able to gratification. You got to be able to gratification. You got to be able to kind of weather some storms. Um but that kind of weather some storms. Um but that kind of weather some storms. Um but that kind of the more you do it, the more you kind of the more you do it, the more you kind of the more you do it, the more you get better at it. It’s kind of like a get better at it. It’s kind of like a get better at it. It’s kind of like a muscle you exercise and muscle you exercise and muscle you exercise and >> yeah, it’s it’s definitely worthwhile. >> yeah, it’s it’s definitely worthwhile.

[27:24] >> yeah, it’s it’s definitely worthwhile. Um, even, you know, if if things do Um, even, you know, if if things do Um, even, you know, if if things do correct and you you lose some money for correct and you you lose some money for correct and you you lose some money for a little bit, like the the values go a little bit, like the the values go a little bit, like the the values go down, um, you know, like it’s it it like down, um, you know, like it’s it it like down, um, you know, like it’s it it like I that illustration I said earlier with I that illustration I said earlier with I that illustration I said earlier with the 2000 buy, you know, that would went the 2000 buy, you know, that would went the 2000 buy, you know, that would went through the the bubble burst. Um, and through the the bubble burst. Um, and through the the bubble burst. Um, and that property would have lost value. I’m that property would have lost value. I’m that property would have lost value. I’m not sure if it would have been under not sure if it would have been under not sure if it would have been under what they bought it for. I didn’t I

[27:43] what they bought it for. I didn’t I what they bought it for. I didn’t I didn’t do the math for that. Uh but they didn’t do the math for that. Uh but they didn’t do the math for that. Uh but they just had to ride it out for a couple just had to ride it out for a couple just had to ride it out for a couple years and then they were back to, you years and then they were back to, you years and then they were back to, you know, where they were and now they’re, know, where they were and now they’re, know, where they were and now they’re, you know, from 116,000 you know, from 116,000 you know, from 116,000 to 350. Um with a tenant paying off the to 350. Um with a tenant paying off the to 350. Um with a tenant paying off the mortgage the whole time. Uh I do want mortgage the whole time. Uh I do want mortgage the whole time. Uh I do want >> I do want to switch over to your team >> I do want to switch over to your team >> I do want to switch over to your team though. I want to hear some more about though. I want to hear some more about though. I want to hear some more about your sales. Um so you five years ago you

[28:04] your sales. Um so you five years ago you your sales. Um so you five years ago you started building this team. How big is started building this team. How big is started building this team. How big is it now? it now? it now? >> Uh so we’re at 23 agents and we really >> Uh so we’re at 23 agents and we really >> Uh so we’re at 23 agents and we really ramped in the last four months. I used ramped in the last four months. I used ramped in the last four months. I used to be a broker owner for another to be a broker owner for another to be a broker owner for another franchise, which I don’t want to, you franchise, which I don’t want to, you franchise, which I don’t want to, you know, I’m not trying to disparrage know, I’m not trying to disparrage know, I’m not trying to disparrage anybody, but uh it was fine. It just anybody, but uh it was fine. It just anybody, but uh it was fine. It just after three years, I’m like, why does after three years, I’m like, why does after three years, I’m like, why does anybody want to be a broker? Um, you anybody want to be a broker? Um, you

[28:23] anybody want to be a broker? Um, you know, it it just seemed like all of the know, it it just seemed like all of the know, it it just seemed like all of the worst parts of the business, right? Uh worst parts of the business, right? Uh worst parts of the business, right? Uh so we switched to a different model uh so we switched to a different model uh so we switched to a different model uh under a real and it gave me the under a real and it gave me the under a real and it gave me the opportunity to actually grow my team opportunity to actually grow my team opportunity to actually grow my team without all the expenses and worrying without all the expenses and worrying without all the expenses and worrying about the broker side. There’s a lot of about the broker side. There’s a lot of about the broker side. There’s a lot of great things about that model that works great things about that model that works great things about that model that works for me. But our team has gr grown uh for me. But our team has gr grown uh for me. But our team has gr grown uh about eight agents just in the last four

[28:44] about eight agents just in the last four about eight agents just in the last four months. So we’re up to 23 agents and months. So we’re up to 23 agents and months. So we’re up to 23 agents and we’re really ramping now. Like we’re in we’re really ramping now. Like we’re in we’re really ramping now. Like we’re in the I knock on wood, but we’re in the the I knock on wood, but we’re in the the I knock on wood, but we’re in the snowball phase like where you know it snowball phase like where you know it snowball phase like where you know it you’re any business you’re profitable you’re any business you’re profitable you’re any business you’re profitable when you’re yourself. Super profitable when you’re yourself. Super profitable when you’re yourself. Super profitable because you don’t have overhead, right?

[29:00] because you don’t have overhead, right? because you don’t have overhead, right? And then you hire an assistant and you And then you hire an assistant and you And then you hire an assistant and you jump up in profitability and you hire an jump up in profitability and you hire an jump up in profitability and you hire an agent or two and you’re like, “Okay, agent or two and you’re like, “Okay, agent or two and you’re like, “Okay, this is great.” But then you start to this is great.” But then you start to this is great.” But then you start to scale and you have to hire more people, scale and you have to hire more people, scale and you have to hire more people, you have more expenses, so your you have more expenses, so your you have more expenses, so your profitability dips. And that’s the truth profitability dips. And that’s the truth profitability dips. And that’s the truth about I think most businesses, but real about I think most businesses, but real about I think most businesses, but real estate teams especially, people aren’t estate teams especially, people aren’t estate teams especially, people aren’t willing to say is that in that like 4 to

[29:20] willing to say is that in that like 4 to willing to say is that in that like 4 to 20 agent range, your your your 20 agent range, your your your 20 agent range, your your your profitability is significantly lower profitability is significantly lower profitability is significantly lower than if you were just an individual than if you were just an individual than if you were just an individual agent. Like I’ve done all the math. It agent. Like I’ve done all the math. It agent. Like I’ve done all the math. It it and I tell people like before you it and I tell people like before you it and I tell people like before you start a team, make sure you want to do start a team, make sure you want to do start a team, make sure you want to do this, you know, cuz just like anything, this, you know, cuz just like anything, this, you know, cuz just like anything, there’s that dip where you’re covering there’s that dip where you’re covering there’s that dip where you’re covering the expenses from your own commission the expenses from your own commission the expenses from your own commission until it comes back up again. And we’re

[29:39] until it comes back up again. And we’re until it comes back up again. And we’re already up and it’s finally profitable already up and it’s finally profitable already up and it’s finally profitable and, you know, my agents are super and, you know, my agents are super and, you know, my agents are super happy. And for me, I I in 2020 when I happy. And for me, I I in 2020 when I happy. And for me, I I in 2020 when I was finishing up all that, you know, I was finishing up all that, you know, I was finishing up all that, you know, I was pretty like, you know, not to was pretty like, you know, not to was pretty like, you know, not to overshare, but pretty depressed about it overshare, but pretty depressed about it overshare, but pretty depressed about it all. And I felt like it was what’s going all. And I felt like it was what’s going all. And I felt like it was what’s going to happen here, you know, like why is to happen here, you know, like why is to happen here, you know, like why is this all worth it? And I that year I this all worth it? And I that year I this all worth it? And I that year I made the most money I ever made ever.

[30:00] made the most money I ever made ever. made the most money I ever made ever. And I was still not super happy. And I’m And I was still not super happy. And I’m And I was still not super happy. And I’m like, well, if this isn’t going to make like, well, if this isn’t going to make like, well, if this isn’t going to make me happy, what is, right? And I’ve found me happy, what is, right? And I’ve found me happy, what is, right? And I’ve found that, you know, I used to get little that, you know, I used to get little that, you know, I used to get little dopamine heads from selling houses. That dopamine heads from selling houses. That dopamine heads from selling houses. That was really fun and great at the time, was really fun and great at the time, was really fun and great at the time, but it would wear off.

[30:12] but it would wear off. but it would wear off. >> What I found is that like helping my >> What I found is that like helping my >> What I found is that like helping my agents crush has been like my new life agents crush has been like my new life agents crush has been like my new life like joy. like joy. like joy. >> And helping them invest, and I invest >> And helping them invest, and I invest >> And helping them invest, and I invest with some of them now. helping them with some of them now. helping them with some of them now. helping them build out their portfolios. So, that’s build out their portfolios. So, that’s build out their portfolios. So, that’s like my new thing. I I I love what I do.

[30:26] like my new thing. I I I love what I do. like my new thing. I I I love what I do. I’m I’m probably never going to stop I’m I’m probably never going to stop I’m I’m probably never going to stop selling real estate in some aspect. I selling real estate in some aspect. I selling real estate in some aspect. I don’t have any desire to to quit my job don’t have any desire to to quit my job don’t have any desire to to quit my job or anything like that. I just want to or anything like that. I just want to or anything like that. I just want to keep helping people win. And um you keep helping people win. And um you keep helping people win. And um you know, and it’s fun and I’m building a know, and it’s fun and I’m building a know, and it’s fun and I’m building a great life now and you know, I’m always great life now and you know, I’m always great life now and you know, I’m always going to make mistakes like anyone else.

[30:42] going to make mistakes like anyone else. going to make mistakes like anyone else. >> Um but I think not to give is it okay if >> Um but I think not to give is it okay if >> Um but I think not to give is it okay if I mention another bigger a big podcast? I mention another bigger a big podcast? I mention another bigger a big podcast? There’s a podcast called the Founders There’s a podcast called the Founders There’s a podcast called the Founders Podcast. Have you ever heard of that Podcast. Have you ever heard of that Podcast. Have you ever heard of that one? It’s a great podcast. This guy, you one? It’s a great podcast. This guy, you one? It’s a great podcast. This guy, you know, reads about history’s greatest know, reads about history’s greatest know, reads about history’s greatest problems. And one of the things I found problems. And one of the things I found problems. And one of the things I found after listening to it over and over after listening to it over and over after listening to it over and over again is they all just did one thing and again is they all just did one thing and

[30:59] again is they all just did one thing and stuck to it for a long time. stuck to it for a long time. stuck to it for a long time. >> And like that’s what’s been missing. You >> And like that’s what’s been missing. You >> And like that’s what’s been missing. You know, you see like these everyone wants know, you see like these everyone wants know, you see like these everyone wants that instant like Bitcoin money, you that instant like Bitcoin money, you that instant like Bitcoin money, you know, where they’re all of a sudden a know, where they’re all of a sudden a know, where they’re all of a sudden a millionaire. And I’ve just I’m I’m good millionaire. And I’ve just I’m I’m good millionaire. And I’ve just I’m I’m good with knowing I’m going to be doing this with knowing I’m going to be doing this with knowing I’m going to be doing this for decades and I’m going to have a good for decades and I’m going to have a good for decades and I’m going to have a good life and I’m going to enjoy it along the life and I’m going to enjoy it along the life and I’m going to enjoy it along the way and my kids are going to be happy

[31:19] way and my kids are going to be happy way and my kids are going to be happy and you know I I don’t need to get there and you know I I don’t need to get there and you know I I don’t need to get there today. Um yeah, and embracing that has today. Um yeah, and embracing that has today. Um yeah, and embracing that has actually sped up my uh like success actually sped up my uh like success actually sped up my uh like success because I’m just happy you’re doing it because I’m just happy you’re doing it because I’m just happy you’re doing it right. Uh and that’s what I say to my right. Uh and that’s what I say to my right. Uh and that’s what I say to my agents. I’m like this isn’t going to agents. I’m like this isn’t going to agents. I’m like this isn’t going to happen overnight, but if you’re really happen overnight, but if you’re really happen overnight, but if you’re really willing to commit to it, like I’ll show willing to commit to it, like I’ll show willing to commit to it, like I’ll show you how to build a business. I’ll show you how to build a business. I’ll show you how to build a business. I’ll show you how to start your own team. I’ll

[31:38] you how to start your own team. I’ll you how to start your own team. I’ll show you how to build a real estate show you how to build a real estate show you how to build a real estate investment portfolio. like [laughter] investment portfolio. like [laughter] investment portfolio. like [laughter] this is fun. It’s fun and you know this is fun. It’s fun and you know this is fun. It’s fun and you know changing people’s lives and changing people’s lives and changing people’s lives and perspectives. It’s just it’s it’s great. perspectives. It’s just it’s it’s great. perspectives. It’s just it’s it’s great. It’s it’s a good meaning for life. Um It’s it’s a good meaning for life. Um It’s it’s a good meaning for life. Um and I’m never going to stop investing. I and I’m never going to stop investing. I and I’m never going to stop investing. I actually just ramped up my goal for next actually just ramped up my goal for next actually just ramped up my goal for next year. We talked to all my different I year. We talked to all my different I year. We talked to all my different I have small partnerships with friends. I

[31:59] have small partnerships with friends. I have small partnerships with friends. I don’t really syndicate or anything. Not don’t really syndicate or anything. Not don’t really syndicate or anything. Not yet at least. Um and we all sat down. We yet at least. Um and we all sat down. We yet at least. Um and we all sat down. We talked like, “Hey, I think, you know, 10 talked like, “Hey, I think, you know, 10 talked like, “Hey, I think, you know, 10 10 doors a month, you know, going 10 doors a month, you know, going 10 doors a month, you know, going forward is should be the the number, you forward is should be the the number, you forward is should be the the number, you know, and know, and know, and >> I think that’s what we’re going to shoot >> I think that’s what we’re going to shoot >> I think that’s what we’re going to shoot for next year.” And then we’re trying to for next year.” And then we’re trying to for next year.” And then we’re trying to do 12 flips next year and stuff. So, you do 12 flips next year and stuff. So, you do 12 flips next year and stuff. So, you know, I it’s it’s snowballing. It’s fun.

[32:17] know, I it’s it’s snowballing. It’s fun. know, I it’s it’s snowballing. It’s fun. It’s there. Um I’m glad I stuck with it, It’s there. Um I’m glad I stuck with it, It’s there. Um I’m glad I stuck with it, but you know, and if you’re an investor but you know, and if you’re an investor but you know, and if you’re an investor out there and you’re dealing with that out there and you’re dealing with that out there and you’re dealing with that dip in profitability and the rough part, dip in profitability and the rough part, dip in profitability and the rough part, like, like, like, >> stick through it, man. It gets better, >> stick through it, man. It gets better, >> stick through it, man. It gets better, you know. uh even so one of our LLC’s we you know. uh even so one of our LLC’s we you know. uh even so one of our LLC’s we have five buildings and they or seven have five buildings and they or seven have five buildings and they or seven seven buildings and they uh it it does seven buildings and they uh it it does seven buildings and they uh it it does well and we bured those buildings but

[32:42] well and we bured those buildings but well and we bured those buildings but when we did our most recent cash out when we did our most recent cash out when we did our most recent cash out refinance they required us to put flood refinance they required us to put flood refinance they required us to put flood insurance on it which is a killer so insurance on it which is a killer so insurance on it which is a killer so profitability dipped significantly and profitability dipped significantly and profitability dipped significantly and I’m like man this really sucks and not I’m like man this really sucks and not I’m like man this really sucks and not loving these buildings anymore but then loving these buildings anymore but then loving these buildings anymore but then I just did some math and I’m like well I just did some math and I’m like well I just did some math and I’m like well hey if I sell these and I take the hey if I sell these and I take the hey if I sell these and I take the equity and I go buy a cheaper one equity and I go buy a cheaper one equity and I go buy a cheaper one building for cheaper and I just do like

[33:04] building for cheaper and I just do like building for cheaper and I just do like a forced, you know, a depreciation on a forced, you know, a depreciation on a forced, you know, a depreciation on the building. Uh, I won’t have to eat the building. Uh, I won’t have to eat the building. Uh, I won’t have to eat too much of a boot from the 1031 too much of a boot from the 1031 too much of a boot from the 1031 exchange and now I can have a super exchange and now I can have a super exchange and now I can have a super profitable building with a ton of equity profitable building with a ton of equity profitable building with a ton of equity that, you know, is more less units under that, you know, is more less units under that, you know, is more less units under one roof, but I don’t have to deal with one roof, but I don’t have to deal with one roof, but I don’t have to deal with flood insurance anymore. Yeah. you know, flood insurance anymore. Yeah. you know, flood insurance anymore. Yeah. you know, so there’s always like creative ways to so there’s always like creative ways to so there’s always like creative ways to get out of properties if they’re not,

[33:28] get out of properties if they’re not, get out of properties if they’re not, you know, meeting your criteria anymore you know, meeting your criteria anymore you know, meeting your criteria anymore and and and >> just have options if you’re in the game. >> just have options if you’re in the game. >> just have options if you’re in the game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And every year you buy re I was >> Yeah. And every year you buy re I was >> Yeah. And every year you buy re I was every year you reby your own properties, every year you reby your own properties, every year you reby your own properties, right? Like you’re deciding if you want right? Like you’re deciding if you want right? Like you’re deciding if you want to own that property next year. So when to own that property next year. So when to own that property next year. So when you look at it, if it’s not a good deal you look at it, if it’s not a good deal you look at it, if it’s not a good deal anymore, it doesn’t work for you.

[33:45] anymore, it doesn’t work for you. anymore, it doesn’t work for you. property taxes went up, the flood property taxes went up, the flood property taxes went up, the flood insurance went up. Whatever it is, the insurance went up. Whatever it is, the insurance went up. Whatever it is, the tenant, you know, aren’t paying great, tenant, you know, aren’t paying great, tenant, you know, aren’t paying great, sell it, buy something else, you know, sell it, buy something else, you know, sell it, buy something else, you know, do something else with it. Uh, you said do something else with it. Uh, you said do something else with it. Uh, you said you were writing a book. What’s the name you were writing a book. What’s the name you were writing a book. What’s the name of the book?

[33:56] of the book? of the book? >> Um, not 100% sure. >> Um, not 100% sure. >> Um, not 100% sure. >> No, I haven’t fully decided yet. It’s >> No, I haven’t fully decided yet. It’s >> No, I haven’t fully decided yet. It’s third round of editing. Um, so like the third round of editing. Um, so like the third round of editing. Um, so like the the launch team and stuff hasn’t started the launch team and stuff hasn’t started the launch team and stuff hasn’t started yet, but yet, but yet, but >> uh it’s going to be very similar to the >> uh it’s going to be very similar to the >> uh it’s going to be very similar to the the title probably the REI agent or the title probably the REI agent or the title probably the REI agent or something to that extent. Um, something to that extent. Um, something to that extent. Um, >> okay.

[34:11] >> okay. >> okay. But yeah, no, it’s uh it’s I mean it’s But yeah, no, it’s uh it’s I mean it’s But yeah, no, it’s uh it’s I mean it’s basically your story basically. Like I basically your story basically. Like I basically your story basically. Like I think it’s uh you know getting through think it’s uh you know getting through think it’s uh you know getting through the uh the grind of the beginning and the uh the grind of the beginning and the uh the grind of the beginning and trying to keep your expenses low. U try trying to keep your expenses low. U try trying to keep your expenses low. U try to invest while you go. Um I’m a big big to invest while you go. Um I’m a big big to invest while you go. Um I’m a big big fan of doing that the house hack to fan of doing that the house hack to fan of doing that the house hack to begin. Um if if you can swing it with begin. Um if if you can swing it with begin. Um if if you can swing it with your your personal life, um I think it’s your your personal life, um I think it’s your your personal life, um I think it’s it’s a great great way to get started.

[34:34] it’s a great great way to get started. it’s a great great way to get started. Um and then yeah, but um I think it it’s Um and then yeah, but um I think it it’s Um and then yeah, but um I think it it’s more geared towards the beginner more geared towards the beginner more geared towards the beginner beginner uh phase. Um so mentions things beginner uh phase. Um so mentions things beginner uh phase. Um so mentions things like team building and mentions things like team building and mentions things like team building and mentions things like um syndications, but we’re not like um syndications, but we’re not like um syndications, but we’re not really focused on on getting into more really focused on on getting into more really focused on on getting into more complex things. I think you really need complex things. I think you really need complex things. I think you really need to to get started um and and not try to, to to get started um and and not try to, to to get started um and and not try to, you know, do advanced chess uh before you know, do advanced chess uh before you know, do advanced chess uh before you’ve even taken the first step. So

[34:58] you’ve even taken the first step. So you’ve even taken the first step. So >> yeah. No, that’s I think if I had read >> yeah. No, that’s I think if I had read >> yeah. No, that’s I think if I had read some more books and things like that, I some more books and things like that, I some more books and things like that, I probably would have I I looking back on probably would have I I looking back on probably would have I I looking back on it, a house hack is the perfect way to it, a house hack is the perfect way to it, a house hack is the perfect way to start your investing career. And I start your investing career. And I start your investing career. And I completely agree with you. If I tell completely agree with you. If I tell completely agree with you. If I tell every client I have that fits the every client I have that fits the every client I have that fits the criteria of a possible they can live in criteria of a possible they can live in criteria of a possible they can live in a unit, rent out the others or even just a unit, rent out the others or even just a unit, rent out the others or even just rent out some rooms. Um I tell them try

[35:20] rent out some rooms. Um I tell them try rent out some rooms. Um I tell them try it. Do it, man. like do an FHA 3 and a it. Do it, man. like do an FHA 3 and a it. Do it, man. like do an FHA 3 and a half% down and then go buy a you know half% down and then go buy a you know half% down and then go buy a you know you could buy a triplex or you know up you could buy a triplex or you know up you could buy a triplex or you know up to a you know you could buy up to three to a you know you could buy up to three to a you know you could buy up to three units or up to four units. units or up to four units. units or up to four units. >> Four units. Yeah. >> Four units. Yeah. >> Four units. Yeah. >> Yeah. With FHA and then you get a you >> Yeah. With FHA and then you get a you >> Yeah. With FHA and then you get a you could buy a duplex after that with a 5% could buy a duplex after that with a 5% could buy a duplex after that with a 5% conventional. You can get six units with conventional. You can get six units with conventional. You can get six units with 8 and a half% down and then you then go

[35:41] 8 and a half% down and then you then go 8 and a half% down and then you then go buy your home you want to live in, buy your home you want to live in, buy your home you want to live in, right? and all of a sudden you have six right? and all of a sudden you have six right? and all of a sudden you have six units and yeah they might not be the units and yeah they might not be the units and yeah they might not be the most profitable because you have PMI and most profitable because you have PMI and most profitable because you have PMI and things of that nature but they will gain things of that nature but they will gain things of that nature but they will gain equity and you know you living there equity and you know you living there equity and you know you living there >> living even like so our market doesn’t >> living even like so our market doesn’t >> living even like so our market doesn’t have a lot of multif family um it’s it’s have a lot of multif family um it’s it’s have a lot of multif family um it’s it’s harder to [clears throat] come by and harder to [clears throat] come by and

[35:56] harder to [clears throat] come by and it’s expensive it’s expensive it’s expensive >> um so so we just bought a single family >> um so so we just bought a single family >> um so so we just bought a single family house we were like kind of like it’s house we were like kind of like it’s house we were like kind of like it’s very similar to your story honestly um very similar to your story honestly um very similar to your story honestly um we we were mainly trying to pay off we we were mainly trying to pay off we we were mainly trying to pay off student loans we had $120,000 and we student loans we had $120,000 and we student loans we had $120,000 and we were making like uh 70 or thousand were making like uh 70 or thousand were making like uh 70 or thousand together or something like that. And we together or something like that. And we together or something like that. And we wanted to to try to get that done as wanted to to try to get that done as wanted to to try to get that done as fast as possible to to, you know, be fast as possible to to, you know, be fast as possible to to, you know, be able to start a family, not have that

[36:18] able to start a family, not have that able to start a family, not have that hanging over our head. Listened to Dave hanging over our head. Listened to Dave hanging over our head. Listened to Dave Ramsey, put our house on a 15-year Ramsey, put our house on a 15-year Ramsey, put our house on a 15-year mortgage. We started off with an FHA. mortgage. We started off with an FHA. mortgage. We started off with an FHA. Um, refinance it with a 15year Um, refinance it with a 15year Um, refinance it with a 15year conventional. Um, never rented out a conventional. Um, never rented out a conventional. Um, never rented out a room, but then once, you know, my sales room, but then once, you know, my sales room, but then once, you know, my sales career got going, we saved up some money career got going, we saved up some money career got going, we saved up some money and bought another house and just turned and bought another house and just turned and bought another house and just turned that into a rental. Uh, didn’t cash flow that into a rental. Uh, didn’t cash flow that into a rental. Uh, didn’t cash flow incredibly well, but now we owe like

[36:39] incredibly well, but now we owe like incredibly well, but now we owe like 30,000 on it or something. Um, so like 30,000 on it or something. Um, so like 30,000 on it or something. Um, so like if you look at it from a portfolio if you look at it from a portfolio if you look at it from a portfolio standpoint, like you know, if you’re standpoint, like you know, if you’re standpoint, like you know, if you’re looking at how much debt’s being paid looking at how much debt’s being paid looking at how much debt’s being paid off, there’s a ton every month from that off, there’s a ton every month from that off, there’s a ton every month from that one. Um, and you know, again, options, one. Um, and you know, again, options, one. Um, and you know, again, options, we could sell it, refinance it. We could we could sell it, refinance it. We could we could sell it, refinance it. We could do all different things to to kind of do all different things to to kind of do all different things to to kind of tap into that equity. It’s a great lever tap into that equity. It’s a great lever tap into that equity. It’s a great lever now. We can pull whatever we want to.

[36:59] now. We can pull whatever we want to. now. We can pull whatever we want to. >> Yeah. I mean, you can go cash out, >> Yeah. I mean, you can go cash out, >> Yeah. I mean, you can go cash out, refine, and buy two properties with the refine, and buy two properties with the refine, and buy two properties with the equity, right? And equity, right? And equity, right? And >> there you go. You know, it’s >> there you go. You know, it’s >> there you go. You know, it’s >> it’s awesome, man. I I didn’t mean to >> it’s awesome, man. I I didn’t mean to >> it’s awesome, man. I I didn’t mean to start this whole thing off on too much start this whole thing off on too much start this whole thing off on too much doom and gloom. I [laughter] doom and gloom. I [laughter] doom and gloom. I [laughter] you know it I had a rough start to it, you know it I had a rough start to it, you know it I had a rough start to it, but where I’m at now, if you have the but where I’m at now, if you have the but where I’m at now, if you have the stomach for it, I don’t recommend any

[37:17] stomach for it, I don’t recommend any stomach for it, I don’t recommend any other path. Like other path. Like other path. Like >> I love what I do. I love selling real >> I love what I do. I love selling real >> I love what I do. I love selling real estate, my team, but I love investing in estate, my team, but I love investing in estate, my team, but I love investing in real estate. I love looking at that and real estate. I love looking at that and real estate. I love looking at that and knowing if worse comes to worse, you knowing if worse comes to worse, you knowing if worse comes to worse, you know, my wife and I were discussing um know, my wife and I were discussing um know, my wife and I were discussing um you know, potentially uh we might have you know, potentially uh we might have you know, potentially uh we might have to do like IVF for another kid or to do like IVF for another kid or to do like IVF for another kid or something. I could sell a house and just something. I could sell a house and just something. I could sell a house and just pay for it, you know. uh when my kids

[37:36] pay for it, you know. uh when my kids pay for it, you know. uh when my kids are ready for college, I could sell a are ready for college, I could sell a are ready for college, I could sell a house and pay for it. Like that the house and pay for it. Like that the house and pay for it. Like that the stuff people don’t like the the the stuff people don’t like the the the stuff people don’t like the the the likelihood of people putting away enough likelihood of people putting away enough likelihood of people putting away enough in a savings account every month for 18 in a savings account every month for 18 in a savings account every month for 18 years and not touching that. years and not touching that.

[37:48] years and not touching that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is less likely than you buying a house, >> Is less likely than you buying a house, >> Is less likely than you buying a house, having your tenants pay it off, and sell having your tenants pay it off, and sell having your tenants pay it off, and sell it to send your kids to college. it to send your kids to college. it to send your kids to college. >> Yeah. 100%. And I love I think Brandon >> Yeah. 100%. And I love I think Brandon >> Yeah. 100%. And I love I think Brandon Jer talks about like kind of getting a Jer talks about like kind of getting a Jer talks about like kind of getting a duplex or something that just uh put on duplex or something that just uh put on duplex or something that just uh put on a 15 year or or 20 year or something and a 15 year or or 20 year or something and a 15 year or or 20 year or something and just let the tenants pay it off for just let the tenants pay it off for just let the tenants pay it off for whenever as soon as they have a kid and whenever as soon as they have a kid and

[38:05] whenever as soon as they have a kid and then you know that is their college fund then you know that is their college fund then you know that is their college fund or could be their first house or it or could be their first house or it or could be their first house or it could be you know whatever they need could be you know whatever they need could be you know whatever they need when they when they graduate. So I love when they when they graduate. So I love when they when they graduate. So I love it. Um William I I’m curious what you it. Um William I I’m curious what you it. Um William I I’m curious what you you you you had a lot more real estate you you you had a lot more real estate you you you had a lot more real estate investing knowledge than I expected investing knowledge than I expected investing knowledge than I expected coming to this uh podcast which is coming to this uh podcast which is coming to this uh podcast which is awesome. again. You’re perfect fit for awesome. again. You’re perfect fit for awesome. again. You’re perfect fit for this show. Love to have you on again. Um

[38:27] this show. Love to have you on again. Um this show. Love to have you on again. Um curious about if you have a golden curious about if you have a golden curious about if you have a golden nugget to share to our listeners. nugget to share to our listeners. nugget to share to our listeners. >> Golden nug. I think I actually probably >> Golden nug. I think I actually probably >> Golden nug. I think I actually probably squeezed it in there like uh but my I squeezed it in there like uh but my I squeezed it in there like uh but my I think I tell all of our investor clients think I tell all of our investor clients think I tell all of our investor clients um now is understanding as much as I um now is understanding as much as I um now is understanding as much as I love burr and it’s literally all I talk love burr and it’s literally all I talk love burr and it’s literally all I talk about. Um you have to get into flips about. Um you have to get into flips about. Um you have to get into flips too, too, too, >> right? Don’t only try to do burrs. um >> right? Don’t only try to do burrs. um

[38:50] >> right? Don’t only try to do burrs. um you’re going to be using a lot of your you’re going to be using a lot of your you’re going to be using a lot of your own cash. You’re going to be constantly own cash. You’re going to be constantly own cash. You’re going to be constantly putting money into these things. You’re putting money into these things. You’re putting money into these things. You’re not going to get them out for a while not going to get them out for a while not going to get them out for a while and it’s going to cause a strain on your and it’s going to cause a strain on your and it’s going to cause a strain on your life most likely. So, burr flip burr life most likely. So, burr flip burr life most likely. So, burr flip burr flip. Everyone I talk to, I’m like, flip. Everyone I talk to, I’m like, flip. Everyone I talk to, I’m like, “Please adapt that cadence.” Unless you “Please adapt that cadence.” Unless you “Please adapt that cadence.” Unless you have a lot, adopt that cadence. Unless have a lot, adopt that cadence. Unless have a lot, adopt that cadence. Unless you have a lot of money and you’re

[39:11] you have a lot of money and you’re you have a lot of money and you’re starting in real estate investing, which starting in real estate investing, which starting in real estate investing, which isn’t most people, right? Most people isn’t most people, right? Most people isn’t most people, right? Most people are starting with little money or none are starting with little money or none are starting with little money or none like you know like like I did and we like you know like like I did and we like you know like like I did and we did. You have to have cash flow for the did. You have to have cash flow for the did. You have to have cash flow for the business and your burners aren’t going business and your burners aren’t going business and your burners aren’t going to cash flow for a while. So um and to cash flow for a while. So um and to cash flow for a while. So um and they’re going to take some of your your they’re going to take some of your your they’re going to take some of your your your money at the end. So, uh I really your money at the end. So, uh I really your money at the end. So, uh I really do think if you’re doing this but and

[39:33] do think if you’re doing this but and do think if you’re doing this but and your dream is to own passive income, your dream is to own passive income, your dream is to own passive income, which like you said, rental properties which like you said, rental properties which like you said, rental properties are not passive income, but uh they are not passive income, but uh they are not passive income, but uh they Yeah. Uh then have income for your Yeah. Uh then have income for your Yeah. Uh then have income for your business and that to me with a real business and that to me with a real business and that to me with a real estate investment portfolio is flips. estate investment portfolio is flips.

[39:47] estate investment portfolio is flips. >> Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um now, I know >> Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um now, I know >> Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um now, I know you said earlier that you’re not a big you said earlier that you’re not a big you said earlier that you’re not a big reader, but do you have one that you reader, but do you have one that you reader, but do you have one that you think is fundamental? It’s okay if it’s think is fundamental? It’s okay if it’s think is fundamental? It’s okay if it’s rich Dad Poor Dad. Uh it’s that book has rich Dad Poor Dad. Uh it’s that book has rich Dad Poor Dad. Uh it’s that book has changed so many people’s lives. Um, I changed so many people’s lives. Um, I changed so many people’s lives. Um, I swear it’s it it’s one that is like a swear it’s it it’s one that is like a swear it’s it it’s one that is like a fundamental one that um gets mentioned fundamental one that um gets mentioned fundamental one that um gets mentioned so often. I love it. I mean, it’s for so often. I love it. I mean, it’s for so often. I love it. I mean, it’s for good reason. But yeah, do you have a

[40:07] good reason. But yeah, do you have a good reason. But yeah, do you have a book that either you’re fundamental or book that either you’re fundamental or book that either you’re fundamental or one that you currently have uh one that you currently have uh one that you currently have uh appreciated? appreciated? appreciated? >> So, [laughter] I joke a lot because um >> So, [laughter] I joke a lot because um >> So, [laughter] I joke a lot because um you know, my wife’s like Nick jokes me you know, my wife’s like Nick jokes me you know, my wife’s like Nick jokes me about reading, but I I do read, you about reading, but I I do read, you about reading, but I I do read, you know, I I’ll pick up a book and read it.

[40:23] know, I I’ll pick up a book and read it. know, I I’ll pick up a book and read it. I you know, but Rich Dad Poor Dad is I you know, but Rich Dad Poor Dad is I you know, but Rich Dad Poor Dad is big. I’ve read all of the, you know, um, big. I’ve read all of the, you know, um, big. I’ve read all of the, you know, um, Bigger Pockets books and all of those. Bigger Pockets books and all of those. Bigger Pockets books and all of those. I’ve read, you know, the the richest man I’ve read, you know, the the richest man I’ve read, you know, the the richest man in Babylon. Literally, every book that’s in Babylon. Literally, every book that’s in Babylon. Literally, every book that’s been recommended, um, through uh, any been recommended, um, through uh, any been recommended, um, through uh, any podcast I listen to, I enjoy, even if podcast I listen to, I enjoy, even if podcast I listen to, I enjoy, even if it’s listening to it, but I do try to it’s listening to it, but I do try to it’s listening to it, but I do try to read a good amount of them. Um, they’re read a good amount of them. Um, they’re

[40:47] read a good amount of them. Um, they’re they’re all they all give you different they’re all they all give you different they’re all they all give you different lessons. And, um, like, [clears throat] lessons. And, um, like, [clears throat] lessons. And, um, like, [clears throat] uh, I’m looking at um, my playlist right uh, I’m looking at um, my playlist right uh, I’m looking at um, my playlist right now. I mean the the conversion code, now. I mean the the conversion code, now. I mean the the conversion code, atomic habits, um tribe, the atomic habits, um tribe, the atomic habits, um tribe, the communication book, like these are all communication book, like these are all communication book, like these are all uh traction taught me how to build a uh traction taught me how to build a uh traction taught me how to build a business and I implement that into every business and I implement that into every business and I implement that into every like I like I like I into my real estate like run your real into my real estate like run your real into my real estate like run your real estate investment business like a

[41:13] estate investment business like a estate investment business like a business. So we have weekly meetings and business. So we have weekly meetings and business. So we have weekly meetings and monthly meetings and quarterly meetings monthly meetings and quarterly meetings monthly meetings and quarterly meetings and we have roles and you know if you and we have roles and you know if you and we have roles and you know if you understand how to run a business you can understand how to run a business you can understand how to run a business you can implement that on everything. So implement that on everything. So implement that on everything. So traction’s a really good one. Um you traction’s a really good one. Um you traction’s a really good one. Um you know the one thing I’ve I’ve read I’ve know the one thing I’ve I’ve read I’ve know the one thing I’ve I’ve read I’ve read a lot you know I was kind of read a lot you know I was kind of read a lot you know I was kind of kidding earlier but um you know it you kidding earlier but um you know it you kidding earlier but um you know it you have to I mean you have to it’s been

[41:36] have to I mean you have to it’s been have to I mean you have to it’s been between failing and reading I’ve gotten between failing and reading I’ve gotten between failing and reading I’ve gotten my my my education my my my education my my my education >> you know. I love it. I love it. It’s >> you know. I love it. I love it. It’s >> you know. I love it. I love it. It’s been a a great conversation. William, if been a a great conversation. William, if been a a great conversation. William, if people want to follow you um on social people want to follow you um on social people want to follow you um on social media or maybe they’re in your area and media or maybe they’re in your area and media or maybe they’re in your area and want to reach out, uh where’s the best want to reach out, uh where’s the best want to reach out, uh where’s the best way to find you?

[41:52] way to find you? way to find you? >> Yeah, Instagram, the William Holder >> Yeah, Instagram, the William Holder >> Yeah, Instagram, the William Holder Realy team or you can reach out to Realy team or you can reach out to Realy team or you can reach out to through our website willholdery.com or through our website willholdery.com or through our website willholdery.com or my phone 48474453 my phone 48474453 my phone 48474453 or email me willyholdery.com or email me willyholdery.com or email me willyholdery.com where uh I I’m easily found and I’d love where uh I I’m easily found and I’d love where uh I I’m easily found and I’d love to help. Um, feel free to reach out for to help. Um, feel free to reach out for to help. Um, feel free to reach out for anything, even if it’s just a anything, even if it’s just a anything, even if it’s just a conversation about investing in real conversation about investing in real conversation about investing in real estate. Those are my favorite estate. Those are my favorite estate. Those are my favorite conversations, you know, and it’s get

[42:16] conversations, you know, and it’s get conversations, you know, and it’s get that joy. [snorts] that joy. [snorts] that joy. [snorts] >> Oh, it’s been a great conversation, >> Oh, it’s been a great conversation, >> Oh, it’s been a great conversation, William. I really, really appreciate it. William. I really, really appreciate it. William. I really, really appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day. Have a great rest of your day. Have a great rest of your day. >> Absolutely, man. Appreciate it. >> Absolutely, man. Appreciate it. >> Absolutely, man. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for listening to the REI Agent. >> Thanks for listening to the REI Agent.

[42:25] >> Thanks for listening to the REI Agent. >> If you enjoyed this episode, hit >> If you enjoyed this episode, hit >> If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week. subscribe to catch new shows every week. subscribe to catch new shows every week. >> Visit reiagent.com >> Visit reiagent.com >> Visit reiagent.com for more content. [music] for more content. [music] for more content. [music] >> Until next time, keep building the life >> Until next time, keep building the life >> Until next time, keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not you want. All content in the show is not you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health investment advice or mental health investment advice or mental health therapy.

[42:39] therapy. therapy. >> [music]