From Nurse to Real Estate Powerhouse Building Wealth and Freedom with Gina Shumway

[0:00] Welcome back to the REI agent. We’re here with Gina Shumway. Gina, thank you so much for joining us today. Absolutely. I’m super excited. Yeah. No, give us a quick bird’s eye view of who you are and what you do in real estate. Okay. My name is Gina Shumway. I own a real estate team in Chattanooga. It’s called Titan Group at Keller Williams, Greater Chattanooga. Um, I am, like I said, I own it. I’m the team lead there and I am also an active investor myself. So I own a real estate team. We do specialize in investments. And then I also own a separate business entity that does investments as well. Um, I am happily married mom of four with two dogs. Um, I love working out and I believe that jamming to music in the car is good for the soul.

[0:55] That’s perfect. That’s a really good summary. We’ve got a lot in common. I love it. Um, yeah, that’s, that’s super exciting. Chattanooga is not too far from us. Actually, I think one time I had, um, I had this, uh, investor group and REI meet up, uh, you know, locally here in Virginia, uh, with people, I want to say coming out of Charlottesville, um, that were specifically targeting Chattanooga as an investment spot. Is it, is it a pretty good, is it pretty well known? Is it, is it, do a lot of people come to Chattanooga for investing? Um, yes, definitely. I like to tell people that Chattanooga is Nashville like 20 ish years ago. So, um, where Nashville has become very large and, uh, not feasible for some things. Chattanooga still very much is. I used to call it the hidden gem. I kind of think now it’s the discovered gem. Um, we do have a lot of investors who are looking in this area and that continues to grow, which is great for business. Um, but also I’ve also expanded, uh, and kind of started guiding investors to do, we do do Chattanooga, but also the greater Chattanooga area, um, as it continues to grow. Sure. That’s cool. Tell us a little bit about your family,

[2:07] your kids, what kind of a family are you guys, what do you guys like to do together? So I have four kids. They range from, um, 14, 12, nine, and six. Um, my two oldest swim competitively, um, at a school called Baylor, which is in, um, downtown Chattanooga. And then my son is, um, very active in football. His team actually went undefeated, um, for two, the last two years in a row. And they actually won the Turkey bowl after the post season. They, um, did, uh, competitive travel stuff and, um, they won. So low key brag there. Yeah. And, um, my six year old did cheer. She wants to do dance and she is the true boss in the house. Um, we love, we’re very active or a very, very active family. Um, all things athletic, all things social, very involved in our church. Um, and just, I, I tell all people we like, I, we work hard and we play hard. Yeah. I, okay. My, my mind, as you were talking was going to your calendar. What is your system for organizing pickups and drop-offs and whose game is where and who needs where the leotard is or, you know, like what’s your system there? Um, that is a great question and it’s a ever moving target. Um, but what I will say

[3:39] is I don’t know exactly where I learned time blocking, but I am very much a time blocking and calendar person. Um, I have integrated multiple calendars into one through Google calendar. And so I have my business calendar and then I have a family where all of my kids emails are attached. Obviously the youngest is not there, but, um, and so they’re all, they all communicate. So that way I’m able to keep up with everything. Um, it’s, it’s definitely a juggling act. My husband is very supportive and then, um, we have, we don’t have family in the area, but, um, when things get really chaotic, my parents have come in to town before, and then we just, we just have a really good network. They say, you know, it takes a, it takes a village. And I mean, that’s, that’s really true. It takes a village. Yeah, that’s huge. I’m sure like to have people help with carpooling or whoever’s providing a snack or, yeah, I’m sure that’s super helpful. Absolutely. Man. Yeah, that’s a lot. We haven’t really gotten fully into like the sports. Uh, uh, we, we have a two in gymnastics and, and that’s like what once a week. So it’s, it’s not quite as intense as I’m sure it’s going to get. So.

[4:56] Yeah. Well, they, they also currently have said they hate organized sports. And so they do gymnastics, which, which to be fair, like Matias and I do CrossFit, which is like the only, it’s a very individualized sport that you do around people, you know, so we’ll see, we’ll see what they get into, but yeah, we haven’t, we haven’t done the, the drop off to practice, um, piece yet.

[5:20] It’s a slippery slope to a CrossFit.

[5:25] I have never done CrossFit. Um, I did do a stint of, it wasn’t exactly bodybuilding, but I did get into a point where I was very, um, I mean, I still am very health focused. Um, I love going to the gym and stuff, but I had probably about three years where I did like all of the meal planning and all of the things and, um, very regimented. And I actually, I do miss it. I’ve started to try to realign myself. It’s just, it’s just like you said, it’s difficult with family and business and everything else. My husband does a lot of weightlifting. Um, he’s, he’s very, he’s the one that gets up at four 30 and he goes and he makes sure that he gets it in before, uh, before kids wake up. So I’m trying to get back into that.

[6:11] Yeah. Wow. That is really, I, there was a period of time where I did that. I remember, I think it was our second, we have three kids. So our second, um, I would actually get up and I would pump and then I would go to the gym. So I would get up at four pump or the gym. So he could give her a bottle and so I could get it, get it in before, you know, we’re back to doing our normal day-to-day stuff, but I can’t do that. I can’t, I know you black it out. I just, I can’t do that anymore, but there was true. Aging sucks.

[6:43] Um, Gino, how long, when did you start in real estate and what kind of got you in? Were you, what were you doing before? Okay. So I was a nurse practitioner. My story is kind of unique. Um, I was a nurse practitioner for over a decade. Um, I am still technically, I work like five to 10 days a year just to keep my license current. Um, but I am an adult gerontology, acute care nurse practitioner and I’m dual certified as also a family nurse practitioner. I, I went to Vanderbilt and then I went to the university of Massachusetts, Boston to get my post-masters for my FNP. Um, I did that for over a decade and actually, um, right around the time, a little bit before COVID hit, um, there was a tile in my, in my bathroom that was loose. And when I’m one of those people, I’m very obsessed with a little bit of a control freak. And so when that tile came up, I was like, oh my gosh, we have to fix this.

[7:41] And I was like, we don’t have like the money right now to just redo a whole bathroom. But I was like, but I’m pretty good with my hands and my mom had tiled before. And so the next thing I know, my husband is swinging a, not, well, what is it? Basically a hammer, a sledgehammer that yes. And our entire bathroom is ripped apart. And then my mom and I put it back together over the course of like, I mean, it took us about six weeks. Um, it’s a massive bathroom. Um, after that I was like, Hey, this is really fun. So then I went and myself demoed my half bath and then I redid it. And then I actually did this office, all these bookshelves and everything. Um, I did myself painted anyway. So while I was doing that, I actually, so that happened during COVID PS. So hospitals, like they didn’t intentionally shut down, but so many people wanted to stay home that suddenly, I mean, the census went down, I think people were scared. And so they actually cut our hours in half. And so what I did is I just worked on my house while my kids were at home and we did different things and I would put, you know, earbuds in and I started listening to podcasts on real estate

[8:48] investing and, um, flipping. And I started listening to a whole bunch of stuff by, um, David Green, Brandon Turner, you know, some of your bigger pockets, uh, hitters. And, um, originally I wanted to flip a house, um, like with my own, like myself. And then I realized very quickly that that’s not the best way that I wanted to leverage, uh, time and people and things in order to actually do it more efficiently. And so I decided that’s what I wanted to do. I talked to my husband, my husband, like I says, always, always been very supportive. And so I just was like, okay, so I, um, contacted, um, I was actually introduced by somebody who’s kind of like my real estate, I guess you could say mentor to a team and, um, got contacted with an agent. She hooked me up with an agent on her team and they helped me get my first deal. I burned that property. I don’t know if you guys are familiar with the BRRRR method.

[9:45] Um, but I, people who aren’t, but yeah. Um, you want me to explain it? Is that what you said? Yeah, go ahead. So I burned that property. So what I did is I bought a prop. So BRRRR stands for buy, rehab, um, rent, refinance, repeat. And so what you do is you buy a distressed property. So a property that someone, you know, maybe it’s at a point where nobody wants to live in it or it’s super dated. I mean, there’s lots of different ways, um, and, and, and various factors, but I purchased a property, um, and rehab, like completely rehabbed it. And then I stuck a renter in it. And then what you do is you go get an appraisal done once it’s all nice and it’s pretty and it’s rented and whatever. And so you get a much higher value than what you bought it for. And you get a loan, a cash out refinance on that property. So you take all of your capital back because the hope is that you can buy a property and rehab the property for 70 to 75% of the after repair value. And lenders will actually give you 70 to 75% of the loan to value. And so I got all of my capital back, got a cash flowing asset, and then went and did it again. So I started doing that. Um, and then I did flip as well. Um, and so

[11:14] through that, through that process, I became, you know, uh, an experienced investor. Um, but then what happened was I posted on socials, like I just, I’m a very extroverted sharing person. And so I would just post like, Hey, here’s this, this is what I did today. This, or, you know, went and saw the property. This is what it looks like. Um, I rented the property, got my, you know, got my cash back plus 3000. So I got paid to own, you know, and so people came to me and they said, can you teach me how to do that? Can you help me find a property? And I was like, well, no, I don’t have a license. And then I was like, but I could. And so I talked to my husband and he was like, you should totally do that. Your personality is so like you would just thrive.

[11:58] So I went and got my license and what ended up happening was I joined the team that I initially, like I was working with. So my agent, I joined the team of my, the team that my agent worked for. Um, and I was on the team for about a month and I realized that my personality is not to be an agent on a team. My personality is to own and build like build and own my own team. And so I think I’ve been an agent a little over a month and I went to the team owner and I said, Hey, I think you’re great. I think your team is great. I, I just, but I, I aspire to be you, but I don’t want to invest all of this time into this team and then leave. And so I was like, I respectfully am going to go ahead and just step away and start doing this on my own. And she actually called me that day and was like, um, that’s so funny that you said what you said. Um, because I have been thinking for the past, like two weeks that my husband and I want to go live abroad and we can’t do that while I own a team.

[13:04] So she was like, would you be interested in purchasing my team? Well, Keller Williams specifically has a production requirements. You have to produce a certain amount before you can be a team owner, a team lead. And I obviously hadn’t hit that. I’ve been an agent for a month. Um, and so they, she offered the team to me and then the agent who was my agent when I first became like an investor for my, you know, up until that point. And so we bought the team like six weeks later. And so I had been a real estate agent for like two and a half months when I officially bought my team. Um, I, and I mean, and the rest is history. So I very quickly got integrated, um, within three or four months, I was selling three, four or five deals, uh, a month. Um, I hit top producer in Chattanooga, my first year of real estate. And, um, I, we have ever since we consistently are top, um, within the top 10 top five usually. Um, and, uh, it’s been, it’s been a ride. So super fun. Uh, but a little crazy. Yeah. So, and you, you’ve, uh, you said you, you niched in, into real estate investing. Um, that’s been kind of your niche. Was it, is that your whole team’s niche? Was it the team’s

[14:25] niche before you came on or, um, how, how does that look? Yes. So, um, the person who owned the business before me, um, saw a need for investment real estate. And so she specifically, um, started her business, the, her real estate team specifically for investment real estate. And, um, I took that and kind of ran with it. We specialize in investment real estate. We do have, I have a lot of clients who are here, but we really specialize with, um, national, like national, um, clients, people who are not local. Um, I do have some international, I have a client who lives, well, I don’t, I can’t tell you where they live because they move so much for their job. Um, but then I have somebody in Argentina, um, London. I mean, we have people who actually live internationally that invest specifically in Chattanooga. Um, I like to joke with my clients that, um, I couldn’t pick them out of a lineup because I’ve never seen their face before. Um, literally I have people who I’ve bought four or five plus deals with, and I’ve never, I’ve never even seen their face. Um, but it, you know, it, it works because I’ve created a place where people can, um, invest and

[15:39] I have a connection, a business relationship with every type of service provider that you can think of within the Chattanooga area. So, you know, a lot of people are reluctant to go make a massive purchase without ever having seen, you know, the asset or the property or things like that. Um, but when they work with me and my team, they’re able to take comfort in the fact that not only I’m not just a sales agent, right? Like I’m an investor myself and I have done the things and the, the service providers that I recommend, I have either used personally because I’m an investor myself or I have had multiple clients who have used them and, you know, give them, you know, a standing recommendation. I think, I think that is such a huge advantage. Um, when you, uh, do investment real estate, if you, if you do burr method, if you do flips, if you do any of that kind of stuff, um, you just have this pool of people on call that are usually willing to work with you because you give them a lot of good business. Um, and, and you have a sense of what things are going to cost that you probably wouldn’t otherwise. And then you also have the confidence and you have

[16:48] the, you have the experience to say, you know, this house would look incredible if the floors were refinished, something like that. You know what I mean? And, and, and I think it’s not something that I think oftentimes other agents are going to be a little bit more nervous about that, especially if they don’t really haven’t gone through that process a few times. They don’t know exactly how much it’s going to cost. You might lean towards, you know, let’s just offer a credit. Um, but if you go through a flip and you refinish the floors, um, or, and, or, you know, paint the whole house, like after those two things are done, um, hardwood refinished, especially like carpets are fine. But like, if you refinish hardwoods from being like, you know, kind of dingy and gross to like being freshly refinished and it’s a person that actually knows what they’re doing. That’s another, that’s an art right there. Please be careful with what you choose on that. Um, that’s when it gets exciting. Like you’re like, okay, yep. Now this is, this is looking good.

[17:43] Um, and before you’re, you’re, I don’t know, I don’t know about you, but often it’s like, oh my gosh, this house, this better turn out. Or, I mean, I’m not like actively worried about it, but like, it’s just kind of like not fun to be in. And then the floors get refinished and the paint goes in and you’re like, oh, that’s beautiful. This is, this is awesome. This is going to be marketable. I just have a listing coming up now that, you know, we, we’ve, we’ve invested about $6,000 into it. And part of it was refinishing the hardwood and it is, uh, night and day, night and day, uh, of a difference. Like it’s just now it’s fresh and inviting, um, to come into it before it was like difficult to go through. And it was difficult to see how people won’t have the vision. The buyers won’t have the vision. So even if you’re not working with investors, uh, specifically having that contacts, having those, that experience, I think is huge in this business. Yeah. I think it takes a lot of, um, I wouldn’t say like being like an artist necessarily, but like having the vision to see what something could become. Um, and I think you have to look at that through a very different lens,

[18:50] which is something that I would say it comes with experience. But what I tell my clients is, um, when I go into a house, it’s very, I’m very different than your typical person. Or like, I walk into a house and you know, somebody is like, Oh, I love these granite countertops. And I’m the one who’s like opening up the, the, the cabinet doors underneath the kitchen sink so that I can look at the plumbing and see what the plumbing is. Or I’m looking at the roof to see how old I think it is. Or when was the last time, like how old is the HVAC, the water heater, the various, you know, main service components to make sure that they, that they look good. And then also kind of like what you touched on, um, a floor plan can really change a home. And so if you can look at something and say, well, what used to be the dining room and this extra closet in this home would be a fantastic, uh, bedroom and an additional bathroom. And so you can force appreciation, um, and really take what, you know, was a cert, like you, you could only get it to a certain, um, after repair value, but if you are able to add bedrooms and bathrooms and do those specific things, then now you have

[19:59] elevated the property by tens of thousands of dollars when it only costs you 10,000 for the bathroom, if that, and then putting, you know, reframing the door for, you know, a bathroom of a bedroom. Um, and so just being able to have that eye is important and it takes time. And, you know, also making sure that you know what you’re talking about. I am not a structural engineer. Like I will tell you that right away, but I can rock and be like, these floors are wavy or I’m nervous about these cracks. Like, you know, those types of things are like, we need to get somebody, you know, um, having that, that, uh, experience because I am an investor is, is vital. And then also just being able to look at something and see its potential, um, you know, is, isn’t, is invaluable and it’s, it’s nice. Yeah. A hundred percent. When did you, what would your transitioning out of your job look like, um, when you joined the team, were you already pretty much just working the minimum hours you needed to, or how did, did you like feel like you needed some certainty, some contracts on the pipeline before you jumped all the way in? Um, I don’t know how to do anything halfway.

[21:09] So luckily I, I was working what they called PRN at the hospital, which means I am not required to work a certain amount of shifts. I was working like five days a month, um, at that time. And, uh, we were fortunate in that my, my youngest was not quite in school yet, but that we found a little program for her to go to, um, during the day. And so not all day I did like a part anyway. Um, but my husband has, you know, had a job where luckily, you know, we weren’t completely like dependent on my income. And so what I did is I, I really just jumped ship and went full throttle, um, immediately. And I really think that as an agent, if you want to be successful, I know that there’s a lot of people who, who don’t have that ability, but the ability to be able to really, um, invest the time, not only in just finding leads, but the education and all the things that comes with it, um, you’ll be able to grow at a much, uh, an accelerated pace.

[22:13] Sure. What differences did you find in the stress load that you had as a nurse practitioner versus when you became a real estate agent investor, just what type of stress, how you carried it, how you managed it, how it felt? That’s a great question. Um, believe it or not, I would rather code a patient any day, uh, as far as stress level goes, it’s, um, I thought that working at the hospital was a high stress load, um, because you’re dealing with people who are sick and all of those things. Um, but it’s very structured and it’s also like familiar quickly. The other thing about working shift work is that it’s transactional, right? So you work an hour, you make an hour worth of money. And, um, so yes, it’s stressful when you’re taking care of sick people and you’re having to have hard conversations. I mean, um, it’s definitely emotionally taxing, but as far as like, when the shift is over, you clock out, you leave work at work and then you go home.

[23:17] Like sometimes do you have to process something that was really heavy that day? Like, absolutely. Um, I, I’m not going to lie. Like I have traumatic stuff that has happened and I can just close my eyes and still see it. But as far as stepping into an entrepreneurial career where, um, you know, your income isn’t guaranteed, you wake up every day. I saw this quote that I really liked that said, you know, as an entrepreneur, you wake up every day, uh, with what was it? You wake up every day with a new job, having to go find business. Like, um, that stress level is definitely there as somebody, I am definitely a type, a more of a controlling personality. And so to go from something that was, you know, definitely like guaranteed and known to something that is not guaranteed was definitely difficult. Um, and I didn’t do it like the traditional person where I wouldn’t, you know, I got one deal closed and I did this. And then I slowly started to grow. I went from not having any experience to suddenly I own a team and there’s overhead and there’s admin and there’s, um, you know, not just having to like buy and sell real estate myself, but also having to

[24:28] run a team and lead a team when I’d never been, uh, you know, a leader. So luckily I do have experience and other things that kind of, you know, helped with that, but there’s a lot of, there is a lot of stress that goes into that. And I think, um, until you’ve lived it, it’s kind of hard to like appreciate, appreciate that. Um, I’ve definitely had to learn to let go. I am a very religious person. And so I’ve had to give it to God multiple times where I’ve just said, um, you know, I, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I’m just, I I’m, I’m giving it to you. It’s very difficult when you are, when you’ve spent six weeks negotiating a million dollar plus deal and out of the air, it falls apart completely. And you watch 25 plus thousand dollars of income that you worked, you know, weeks and weeks forward, just gone, you know, um, that’s hard. Uh, but at the same time, like if you are doing the grind and you’re doing the things and you are, um, treating people well and nurturing your business, that next, that next deal, that next investment, that next person is going to come along. And so the goal is to keep yourself so busy and to keep your pipe pipeline

[25:55] fed and your downline fit, like all of that to the point where if you lose one, you honestly almost don’t even think about it because you’ve already, you have these other five, six, whatever things going on. Um, but that takes time to really learn how to cope and tolerate with that. At least for me, like that was a threshold that I had to, that I had to learn, especially with kids. I didn’t want to bring home. There was a, there was a time when it was hard to walk through the door and ready to be mom and be there when in the back of your head, you’re thinking about all of the various things, you know, the, the plates that you’re, you know, a hundred percent. I just had a similar conversation earlier this week about that, you know, coming home and wanting to just, I don’t know, relax, decompress, um, take a break when really, if you’re a parent, uh, with kids at home, you’re coming home ready to get to work again. And, and there’s not, you don’t have the option of having off time. And, and some parents, depending on how well your kids sleep, you don’t even get that at night and then you get up and do it all over again. Talking about last night.

[27:05] Yeah, it’s true. And, you know, I, I, um, I poorly described what you’re talking about, uh, with, with, uh, kind of being emotionally invested, I guess, in, in the deals, um, as like, you know, the subtle art of not giving an F as a book that I kind of latched onto at one point. And then, then somebody on the podcast was talking about how it’s really just, you know, trying to remove the emotion from, uh, the situation as best as you can and, and just kind of take the next rational step, like take the next rational action. And that’s really all you can do. Uh, he said it a lot better, uh, than that, but I was like, that’s exactly how, what I’ve been trying to say, but that’s better than just saying, I don’t give an F about, about the deal, which isn’t true. It’s just, there was a distinct moment. And I think to your point, um, when you have enough business rolling in, it, it doesn’t hurt as bad because you, especially like if you’re working with a buyer or if you’re working with a seller, that person will likely still be working, with you, even though this deal is falling apart. And so it’s like, we’re not going to get this one,

[28:07] we’ll get it down the line or whatever, whatever it is. And, and, you know, sometimes those, the, the clients themselves, and I don’t know if you have less of this in the investment space, but they also bring a lot of emotion and anxiety and all that stuff into the deal. And, um, that can rub off on you. You can, you can take it on yourself. Absolutely. I am an empathetic person. So I feel like, um, I, I tend to absorb, absorb emotions, um, match energies, that kind of thing. And so I’ve definitely had to learn that, you know, um, just to leave it at the door, to leave the baggage at the door, um, and, you know, carry on. Um, I think much to your point, uh, as far as like invest, one of the things that I like actually about investment real estate is, um, and it was actually kind of hard for me because I would send, when I first started, I would send stuff to clients and I had, I have a couple who, you know, mindset too. I love, um, I like the money. Sometimes I like, like the, the, the, the numbers. Sometimes I actually just liked the way that the property looked like I found it cute or

[29:20] I found it, whatever. I hadn’t completely changed my, my mindset completely, but I would send it to somebody and they would just be like, no, this doesn’t work. Like this doesn’t work for me next. And they were just so non-emotional and I’m, I’m such a, like, I mean, see how much I talk with my hands. Like I just, I’m not that way. Um, so I’ve actually learned a lot from a lot of my clients because they are non-emotional and they don’t get attached to that, but you really have to kind of learn how to do that. If you’re going to thrive in the business is this one, isn’t the one that’s okay. We’ll move on. We’ll find the next. And like you said, these clients work with me and continue, continue to work with me. I have a client who at any given time, we’ve got five different flips going and I have another one is very much the same. And, you know, I’ve done a lot of comps for people to tell them what I think something can list for. We go see it. It doesn’t work out. And we’re on to the next one. And sometimes it’s a grind, but they, they, if you prove your worth, like they’re going to keep working with you and it becomes, is that a point where I don’t have to lead generate

[30:27] because at this point, the returning business of the same people over and over and over again, um, I’m, I’m at capacity, which is why I have a team of agents that work with me because I’m at capacity and I’m actually in the process of hiring because the agents who are on my team are also at capacity because it’s just, it’s nice because we have, uh, dealing with a client, it’s not one transaction and you’re done and hopefully they’re going to sell that house when they upgrade or downsize down the road. You know, it’s continued repeat business over and over again because they, they want to hit their goals too. I want to make one quick point and then we should probably transition. Um, but it seems that the investing is still going strong in Chattanooga. Um, I think a lot of people that I interview, um, it, it wouldn’t feel that way in their markets. Uh, I think, you know, it’s, it’s been a lot harder to pencil out, uh, num, the, the numbers, the cashflow, all that stuff with the interest rates being where they’re at with prices having increased through COVID, but it sounds like Chattanooga is still going strong, um, with, with that ability. I mean,

[31:33] the burr method was great for us, uh, through COVID, uh, it’s been a lot harder. We’ve had to get creative. Um, our last deal, we had to transition into a midterm rental to make the numbers work. Uh, we couldn’t do a longterm, um, rental, even though, you know, I think it was pretty much a full, uh, burr property, uh, like as in we got our money out. Um, so, I mean, that’s, that’s great. And I guess if anybody’s listening that wants to look at the market, it sounds like Chattanooga is still good. Um, is that, is that accurate? I mean, it sounds like you’re, you’re still rolling. I am still rolling. Uh, a very large majority of my business is still investment real estate. Um, what I will say is, uh, the burr method is difficult. I currently am not, I, the last deal that I burned is I took an industrial warehouse and I turned it into a quadruplex on the backside of signal mountain, um, where there was no zoning requirements. So I was able to just automatically do that. That was a beast by the way, which we don’t have time for, but, um, the actual burr method right now is very difficult and I don’t have many clients who are

[32:37] doing it. Um, they are doing flips and then my bread and butter and what I do all day long is multifamily because finding a single family home that will cashflow when you rent it is very, very difficult. Um, I will say our numbers are still substantially better than many other markets. I have so many clients who are from California, New York, New Jersey, and then believe it or not, Florida, because of all the natural disasters and everything, their, um, insurance rates are so high that it is eating all of their cashflow. And so I have a lot of clients who are 1031 exchanging into the Chattanooga market and they don’t even blink an eye, um, at our prices to our rent ratios, even if they don’t necessarily cashflow, they’re like, well, they’ll just put down a little extra money. And then the numbers work for them because it’s still so much better than, you know, where they are used to like investing. Um, so a lot of multifamily and then a lot of flips is what I am seeing because I can make multifamily cashflow because you’re able to get, you know, with more doors, you’re able to get more income on generally not as large of a purchase price as if you were to

[33:49] buy, say four single family homes and then rent those four single family homes. Versus if you bought a quadruplex, you can, you can buy a quadrant, you can buy multifamily for like a hundred thousand or maybe a little bit more per door, like per door. Um, depending on like, you know, if it needs work, rehab, that kind of thing. Um, so, so the numbers do still work, but it’s, it can be a challenge, but I thrive off of a challenge. So yeah, it sounds like it, it all started from a loose tile. It all started from a loose tile. It did. No, it really did, which I think is really funny. Um, I just started working on my house and listening to podcasts. So, uh, Gina, what would you have some golden nuggets prepared for us for our listeners? Yes. So what I would say, and I’ve kind of talked a little bit about some of these is the deal is made at the purchase, not the sale. What I see so many times is people who so badly want to get their first deal under contract that they will fudge the numbers in order to force a deal. And that just doesn’t work. Like if the numbers don’t work, the numbers don’t work. And so what we have to do is we have to go and we have to negotiate a better price or we

[35:03] move on to the next thing. Um, appreciation is a bonus, but profit is created when you buy it. So, um, that’s the biggest thing I would say is you make your money when you buy, not when you sell. I love it. And if I could just add one thing to that, Gina, I think that is one reason people should really, really think about subject to deals. Cause typically the only way a subject to deal works is if that purchase price is high. Um, and so it really has to make sense long term for, um, it to, to work out. Um, because to your point, like, yeah, you’re not buying with the possibility of really having a lot of, uh, you know, equity in the property and, and that can put you in a tight spot. I mean, that’s the only reason the sellers are selling it that way. Right.

[35:49] Yep. Yep. I have done, I’ve done some subject to, I own a hybrid property and those types of things. Um, I think there’s, which we can’t really unpack that today, but I think there’s definitely pros and cons about doing that that way. The subject to, you can get in a great entry price. Uh, but I think you also need to be careful about that too, because if you have zero equity in the deal, I really hope that you know what you’re doing going forward because there’s a reason why sellers are selling for, you know, that way. Um, Exactly. Exactly. It’s not, I’m not saying it’s not, can’t work. It’s just, that is often the trade-off. Um, is that, is that purchase price and having any kind of equity? Um, sorry. What, what else do you have?

[36:31] Oh, no, no, you’re fine. Sorry. I can totally get derailed. I love talking about this stuff. Um, so the other thing I would just say is your agent matters more than the market. So back to your point on, um, you know, in other markets, it doesn’t work. Well, I do think there’s other markets that are exponentially more difficult than mine, but your agent is important. So just a quick example, I, um, have a duplex that is closing for one of my clients next week. And, um, it’s, we initially went under contract for two 90. Um, it needed probably about 60,000 of work, but we estimated the ARB to be higher than 400. She’s not planning to burr it. She just wanted to make sure that she had a little bit of equity and that with all the money she had put in, she wasn’t going to be, you know, underwater because it will definitely cashflow, um, based off of where it is and the numbers of beds and bathrooms. But, um, still we, once we did the inspection and some things, we realized that it needed more work than we thought. And so her super awesome agent negotiated an additional $30,000 off of purchase price. Um, cause we already got the max seller credits. So, which I can’t go to that

[37:36] either, but so we negotiated down on the price. So she was able to get it for two 60. And by the time that she puts in the 60,000, she’s actually probably going to have 60 plus in equity. Um, and so if your agent knows what they’re doing, they know how to leverage the inspection and, uh, quotes to get the purchase price where it needs to be. Um, and some other creative, there’s other creative ways that you can make a deal work, not just with creative financing, but you know, there’s some other avenues there. And so if your agent knows what they’re doing, um, they can, they can save you exponentially more than they cost to have one. Um, and then my third ones I would say is that most people wait too long because they’re trying to feel certain. And there’s a lot of people who have analysis paralysis. And I’m not saying it’s almost counter countering what I said before, where you, you know, you have to make sure that you get the right deal. But at the same time, there are some people who they wait and they wait and they wait and they wait. And, you know, like people didn’t want to buy, um, you know, during COVID because houses were flying off the shelf for 20,000 over appraisal,

[38:59] but people were buying at a 2% interest. I mean, two and a half percent interest rate there. They’re, they’re, they’re, uh, PMI like their, or their pity is lower than what it like, not way lower than what it would be now because their interest rate was so low. So yes, they were paying, you know, 10, maybe 20, $20,000 more for a property, which was hard for them to like conceptually wrap their brain around. But now that property is still worth more than it was then. But now somebody else who wanted to buy it would have to buy it now at a six, seven, whatever, you know, interest rate. And so there’s a lot of people who are kicking themselves for not jumping in at that time because now they would be, you know, that much farther ahead. And then now I, you know, there’s people who are like, oh, well, I don’t want to purchase because of the interest rate. Um, but I, I mean, I can show you the data, um, in the last two years, you know, home prices in just the general market have increased, um, 30, you know, like, uh, the, the median home price was like 300,000 here in Chattanooga two years ago. And now it’s like three 39. So like every year that you wait, you’re losing, you’re losing

[40:17] money. So I think people don’t, um, lose money in real estate because they couldn’t make a decision. They, they are because they made a bad decision. They lose money because they didn’t make a decision at all. And so I love telling people that your time in the market is more important than your timing in the market. Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of like a planting a tree. The best time was 20 years ago. The next best time is today. Yes. Um, and yeah, it’s, it’s definitely, yeah, get it, you know, make sure you write your numbers, make sure that, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a deal still, it still works out. So pencils out, but yeah, I agree completely. Um, and then, uh, do you have a favorite book, a fundamental book you think everybody should read or, or one you’re currently really enjoying? So I have two and I know everybody says this one, but really and truly because I used to be a nurse practitioner and I thought the only way you could make money was if you were in healthcare, an attorney or like a dentist. Um, when I read rich dad, poor dad, and I learned about basically leverage and making your money work for you, it completely transformed my mindset. Um,

[41:30] and I think anybody who has not read that book needs to read, needs to read that book. Um, and then the other one would be, I’m currently, uh, reading slash listening to the one thing by Gary Keller. And that has had some super hard truths that I am like, got it. I got to make some, I got to make some changes in my life. So those are probably the two books that I would say, listen, slash read. A hundred percent. Yeah. Those are great. Um, and then Gina, you said you were really active when you were getting into, uh, real estate on, uh, on social media, I would imagine you’re still doing stuff on social media. Where can people follow you if they’re interested in seeing more, um, or, or, you know, is there any websites that they could go to? Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my personal handle on Instagram is Gina dot Shumway. Um, my, my team Facebook is Titan group at killer Williams, greater Chattanooga, where you can actually see what, you know, we’re helping clients buy and sell and those types of things. Um, and then we do have a website, which is www.titan group chat with two T’s for Chattanooga.com Titan group chat.com. And that you can find me,

[42:47] um, hit me up. I love to talk, even if you’re not sure that you’re ready to invest in real estate, like getting an idea of where to start and where to begin. Um, you won’t, I just won’t regret it. Awesome. Well, Gina, thank you so much for being on the show. It was a lot of fun talking to you. Yeah, same. I loved it. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to the REI agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week, visit REI agent.com for more content until next time, keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.