From Death-Defying X Games Gold to Lasting Financial Freedom with Dan Brisse

[0:00] Welcome back to the REI Agent. My guest today is Dan Breezy, co-founder and managing partner of Granite Towers Equity Group and former professional snowboarder who won multiple X Games gold medals over a 13-year career. After watching fellow athletes lose everything when their careers ended, Dan made a decision to make his money work for him through multifamily real estate. Today, he is a GP in over 3,000 units and he and his team manage over 450 million of assets under management. Dan, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here. I had to start by saying I am a fellow snowboarder. I learned in the Alps of Switzerland but did not get as far as any kind of competitions. That’s awesome, man. That’s so cool. Very cool. Yeah, snowboarding is phenomenal. It was something I got into at 12, 13 years old. After a few years of doing it, it was really clear that I wanted to be a professional snowboarder. I made a pretty clear decision by age of 15 or 16, like I’m going to make this happen or die trying. I know that sounds extreme but it’s just what felt right in my heart, my gut and I kind of focused and just never looked

[1:11] back. You must have grown up close to a mountain. Where were you trained? You would think so. No, I grew up in central Minnesota. Vertical rise of the resort I rode at was called Powder Ridge, 300 feet vertical rise. The biggest asset I had was two guys grew up in Minnesota, moved to Salt Lake City in Colorado and those guys turned pro. I was like, oh man, if they can do it, they found a way to do it. I can do it too. After high school, I moved to Salt Lake City and I thought within a couple of years, I’d be this big name pro snowboarder and reality hit pretty hard. I had a big gap that I needed to close on where I was versus where I needed to be to really gain recognition from these brands because the way we get paid in snowboarding is either contests or brands. They sign you on these contracts. It was two, three, four years total of really just kind of failure setback. I was working at Blockbuster, biking to work. I was working at TGI Friday’s, Payway. I was literally eating peanut butter and jelly for breakfast, lunch, and dinner as I was working on this career. Finally, after these four years of grinding, if you will,

[2:16] and it was a lot of fun, don’t get me wrong. We were snowboarding constantly, but after the fourth year, my really good friend said, hey, you should go to Aspen, Colorado and compete in the Aspen Open. In an open, they’re kind of cool. Anybody in the world can show up, pay 200, 250 bucks as an entry fee, and you can take your couple runs. If you make it to finals, you’re kind of on that main stage against all the up-and-comers in the world. 250 up-and-comers came from all over the world. I got there and I was like, what are the chances I’m really going to finish top three? Because if you’re not top three at these contests, it just doesn’t really matter. First day, you go through qualifier, so you get two runs. At the end of the first qualifying day, I ended up finishing sixth, and they take top 10 to the finals. Came back the next day and somehow, someway won, and my snowboarding career just took off. Wow. Were you surprised?

[3:05] You know, I can’t say that I was really that surprised. I do remember when I got there and I saw the list of people, and then I saw them riding. I was like, oh my gosh, half these folks shouldn’t even be here. I’m already probably in year nine of obsessively snowboarding. For those four years in Salt Lake City, that’s all we did. I would go and ride the resort from nine to four all day long every day. After the five, six years in Minnesota, plus four years in Salt Lake, I really had a pretty good understanding of how to ride my snowboard. I could see half to three quarters of the people shouldn’t even be there. Then when I got to the finals, I ended up finishing fifth or sixth, like I said, in the middle of first day. Then I don’t know what happened in the finals other than those guys must have fallen under pressure. I’m not really sure, but the top three guys on that contest all ended up having pro careers. Wow. That’s amazing.

[3:53] And I said, we’re talking like terrain park stuff, right? I mean, we’re doing tricks, rails, jumps. Yep. Yep. Yep. My focus was really like slope style was kind of the event in the beginning, which is jumps and handrails. I did a lot of back country as well. The kind of the prime of my career, I came out with a video part that put me right in the face of like one of the top guys in the industry at the perfect timing that X Games came out this new event called Real Snow. They had real street for skateboarding, real moto for dirt bike and real snow for snowboarding. And I got the invite first year to go to X Games for that and ended up winning my first X Games gold medal, came back the next year, won another one. And so for the six year period at the peak of my career, I was in X Games back to back to back six times in a row. And so that really was a pole vault of being at the right place at the right time with exactly the right contest to what I grew up on, which is a lot of urban riding, like, you know, rails and roof gaps and wall rides. And I look at the stuff now and honestly, it’s kind of gnarly. Like I look back and I think, what the heck was I really

[4:53] thinking? If you watch any of the video footage, you’ll see. Go ahead. Oh, yeah. I wanted to know when you got kind of catapulted into your career at that point, what did you notice changing about your life? Yeah, the big thing for me was that I finally didn’t have to have this second job that was limping me along. And my income really took off. So I could invest 100% of my time, 100% of my focus into snowboarding, which it was a compounding effect, you know, like, all I had to worry about every day was going out and riding. And it didn’t mean that there still weren’t challenges and setbacks because there still were plenty. But there was just no more of okay, how am I going to get to this spot?

[5:35] Can I get to this contest? How do I get to Europe? Yeah, you just got it all covered. Everything was paid for it. You had plenty of cash. That’s a little bit different than PB&J for breakfast. You know, it’s a little change. Yeah, that’s just a little bit different. What did your parents say when you decided you were going to move and devote your life? Like, were they like, no, you need to go to college? Yeah, no, it’s a great question. Now, my parents were so supportive of doing what I wanted to do. You know, I heard it growing up all the time from both my parents, do what you love, do what you love, do what you love. We never did. And so I saw it firsthand. They worked really hard. They go into work in the morning at eight and came back at five, dual incomes, working their entire life, my whole childhood. And they just, yeah, they were a hundred percent supportive. And they could see, like, there was no stopping me. Like, you could have told me whatever you wanted. And this point is my life. I’m going to do what I’m going to do. And if you like it, great. If you don’t, get out. And so it was, but it was total support. And it really, it was, it was powerful to have

[6:33] that support from my parents, both of them. They always said, if you don’t, if you go out there, it doesn’t work out, come back home. We’ll be here and we can, you can start then. What were their careers? My dad, he spent time as a sign painter. He owned a business where they painted hand painted signs. It was actually phenomenal stuff. And then he ended up retiring with a granite company in Cold Spring, Minnesota, Richmond, Minnesota, where they would etch, you know, stones for people who passed away. And my mom worked for a company that helped people, teachers continually learn. That’s the best I can say with it, with what she did. I mean, I’m trying to draw some parallels here. Cause I think, you know, we like the entrepreneurial spirit was, I guess, maybe in the family, which is like, maybe easier to have the non-conforming kind of like career, uh, dream. Um, and maybe seeing the, uh, the, um, like, you know, having experienced that grind phase of, you know, like if you just are really determined, um, you know, to make something work out then how, how you can do it, which I feel like you, you kind of need to do in most businesses when you’re getting them started. Um, I can see

[7:38] how that might, um, help parents also, which, cause I feel like the traditional, like, you know, like, you know, go to school, get your, you know, get your four to your degree and then, you know, get a good job and, you know, the whole rich dad, poor dad thing. Right. Like I can see that especially clashing with this kind of career choice. Yeah. You know, I, I didn’t ever really enjoy being in school and what they were teaching me, the style of education just didn’t mold for me. You know, I’m not a linguistics numerical style style learner. I’m a doer where I like to be doing it to learn. And so, you know, I think it’s great. School is good for some folks and it’s just not the right setting for a lot of kids. And so, um, I’m grateful that I didn’t get too bought into the system, if you will, and was clear enough to say, Hey, I can understand this Avenue might be good for some people, but it’s not good for me. And I’m going to follow my own path. And I wish more kids had that confidence and clarity, you know, coming out of high school to be able to get into the world and choose to follow their passion.

[8:35] And it doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy. Cause I’ll tell you, it wasn’t like there was, it was a decade of really grinding, but, um, at least it was a labor of love, you know, a hundred percent. I wanted to ask you about, there were some videos that I saw of you where it was not on a slope and it was more so off the roof of buildings and even like down the side of buildings. Um, the best way I could describe it was like snowboarding parkour probably. And I was, I was just curious how you come, come up with these, uh, routes where you’re going to go, how you set them up. Um, seemed like it required a lot of quick thinking. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was, so every clip you saw was very methodical and it was very timed and very slow. And as far as the setup process went, you know, we would, we, that was probably an X games part you were watching for real snow potentially. And we would be out for 90 to 120 days with a crew of, you know, two filmers, a photographer and two riders. And we would just be traveling throughout the country. We’d go anywhere in the world. And we literally go to cities that had a ton of snow

[9:35] with a lot of urban features or buildings. And we would drive around or we would Google earth it. And we would literally select different spots that we thought would be great based off who we were as riders and what we wanted to hit. And it was that simple. It was like, Hey, I think we could jump up this building, connect with that wall, ride down the ride. And, you know, it’s kind of funny now to just talk about it, but, um, yeah, it was, it’s all it was. And then we would set up, you know, we would take time. A lot of times we didn’t have permission. We would, I did have a waiver insurance form, you know, where in the cops would show up. Sometimes they’d be like, Hey, what are you guys doing? You can’t be here doing this. And we’d be like, well, we got an insurance form here. Will that help? And a lot of times it did, or they’d look us up and see that it was, you know, a crew that could identify who we were just, you know, not some kids screwing on. We’re actually a professional crew here. Um, and you set it up over a day or two day period, you film it, you might fall trying to get a clip on one of these spots, 10, 20, 30, 40 times before

[10:27] you land it. Well, because there’s no features like you saw in the city in, at these resorts, you don’t go to Vail, Colorado and hit a roof gap or a wall ride or any of these features. So you’re going to look, you’re kind of learning on the spot as you go. And, um, it looks like it’s happening fast, but it’s a pretty slow process. You’ve clearly not watched as many of these as I have. Um, but you have a follow-up question, so I’ll let you go. Well, no, I mean, I was just going to say it, it’s, it looked like a lot of fun and it looked like it’s, it’s, I could imagine it’s a sport that has a lot of adrenaline in it too. And that was one of my questions, because as you transitioned to real estate and got out of the snowboard, snowboarding pro world, I was curious what happened to that, that adrenaline drive and where it went and how you channeled it and how you do it now.

[11:09] Yeah. You know, it’s still, it creeps in from time to time. I wanted to, um, I wanted to do motocross during my snowboarding career, but I was disciplined enough to say, no, I’m not going to touch a dirt bike while I’m in my snowboarding career. And after I retired, I bought a couple bikes. My kids got into, we put a couple of tracks on our land and, uh, that was a really easy way for me to continue to get that adrenaline hit. And unfortunately it turned out kind of bad. I had a nasty fall racing, um, just a couple of years ago and just demolished my ankle. And so, you know, for me now I’ve transitioned to golf and just, um, taking it much easier being I’m 42 now and I’ve got three children. Um, and for, for me, I get enough adrenaline in business. There’s enough going on as we build and buy companies and sell real estate where it’s kind of on regularly. So, um, that’s, that’s how I’ve transitioned. I was going to say, um, well, I have a real quick, uh, question about the snowboarding videos, um, how much, and I assume you had a lot of input on this, but went into this, the songs you chose for your, your section. Yeah, it depended, you know, with the film companies,

[12:16] if we were with one of the major film companies, they had a lot of sway. Um, some of them gave us a little bit more choice. Some of them did not. So depend on who we were filming with. Um, there were definitely a few songs where I was like, really, that’s what you gave me guys. And I didn’t see the part till it was completed and done. Whereas there was others that I got to choose and I was really excited about them. Okay. I feel like that’s like a big thing. And while the snowboarding and skate videos is that the song that goes with the, it is so big. I mean, yeah, it’s just such a, it’s such a part of describing who you are as an athlete and how that part looks and feels it’s, it’s almost 50% of the part. I have never heard that. That’s really interesting. I bet that’d be hard to not have control over that. That’s interesting. I would have just assumed that the really, really nasty when you see your part come out and you’re like, this song is horrible.

[13:03] And now you’re like, it’s almost like it almost be akin to like them telling you what to wear. Right. Like I feel like the style of it is also huge in these videos. Yep. Um, all right. Well, um, I, I was going to say like the best snowboarder I grew up with, um, he, he didn’t, you know, make it the games or anything like that. But he, um, I always felt like he just had a certain level of confidence, um, sometimes described as a screw loose, uh, when, with the things that he could go, you know, he could just hit. Um, like I just, I just never had quite that level of like, again, I mean, I think he had been hitting things bigger and had gotten to a point. Like it didn’t, you know, he didn’t just go on the snowboard the first time and hit an, uh, you know, 60 foot kicker.

[13:46] But, um, I can see how that also, and we’re talking about adrenaline as well, can parallel into business. Cause I feel like when you’re getting into investing, you’re taking on big things. And a lot of times people will never get past that, like analysis paralysis, though, they’ll be afraid to actually jump into a deal. And I think maybe confidence, um, is a better way to describe it than like, you know, like just a screw loose. Cause like, you’re not just going into things blind snowboarding wise or, um, deal wise. Right. I mean, is there parallels there? Yeah. I think, I think it comes down to experience, you know, repetition is King. There’s nothing that’s going to beat thousands and thousands of laps on a tow rope or, you know, laps at a resort hitting the same jump over and over and over and over and over again, until it becomes so normal to you. You don’t even have to think, right. You’re just literally on autopilot and you don’t even have to try. Those are the points where when you get to that level of habitual behavior, that level of training, that level of programming. Now it may look to the outside

[14:47] world of like, these people are crazy. They have screw looses, but because you’ve put in so much time and have so much experience and have so much brain repetition of habitual behavior, it’s just, it’s just like walking is really how it occurs when you’ve done it enough. Does that make sense? No, totally. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, I think my friend might’ve had a little bit of a screw loose cause I saw him, I saw him like go off this jump and he was like flailing like a crazy person’s like, this guy is about to like, you know, lay on his neck and break something. He pops it back up and then he goes off this rainbow rail. Um, or no, it was like a roller coaster kind of thing. Yeah. He hits it too hard and like launches off of it, lands in the middle. Um, but he, he was unscathed the whole time. I mean, he was fine.

[15:28] Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you definitely do have that. I, in order, I, from my perspective on being around a bunch of other pro athletes, they all were pretty calculated, you know, the, the risk to reward the timing of when you’re going to take it, you have to have a level of understanding and clarity and certainty of what you know here to go out and execute safely and to continue to have a long career, you know, a 13 year run, 14 year run as a professional snowboarder, you know, like in the risks we were taking, I mean, we could have died. There were times where we were hitting features where if you didn’t make it, you’re dead. And so, yeah, I think that that, what you’re talking about there, it just depends on the person, the setting, the jump and, and what they, what they know about what they’re able to do.

[16:09] What did you notice as you were coming to the end of your career? Um, and you notice other pro athletes, um, also retiring, what did you notice or hear that they did with their money that you wanted to do differently? And what did you, yeah, the, the biggest challenge I saw in my snowboarding and athletic career was what athletes were doing with their capital. Like, you know, for my story, eating peanut butter and jelly, working at Blockbuster, making three, four, 5,000 a year to making five or 600 grand a year as an athlete. And all of a sudden you’re making 40, 50,000 a month. Like, yeah, it’s not that big money compared to some athletes, but still to go from five grand a year to 500 a year, it’s a very big difference. It’s a very different shift. Right.

[16:53] And so a lot of the guys that I was around that were doing that well, or even better, they would lock in and they would go and they get these big homes, you know, three, four, five months, you show your bank statement to a bank. And they’re like, of course, we’re happy to give you debt to go buy that $4 million house or buy this Ferrari. And all of a sudden they’re locked in on these really sweet homes. They look really, really wealthy, but they got a 30 year mortgage. And these contracts are two, three, four, five, six years. If you’re lucky, right. If you’ve got a long career, it’s 10 years. If you’ve got really long career, it’s 15. And these mortgages aren’t paid off and 90 to 95% of the capital is going to interest. And so all of a sudden something comes up, you’re two, three, five, they lose their contract and their home is still paid owed every month and their car is owed every month. And at that point, when you can’t pay it, they come in and take the home back. You know, they got their, their equity in there that you put down, they lose all of that. They take the car and the person is literally back working at the

[17:48] grocery store. And I saw it time and time again, you know, I saw other guys that would get paid out big money. They’d go out and party. They bring their friends around the world. Like it was never going to end. You come back and literally we’re broke saying money ruined them. And I’m like, okay, if I’m going to have a different outcome than some of these heroes who became my friends, I mean, these were guys I would watch in video growing up in Minnesota and I got to know them in Salt Lake and they were five or 10 years in front of me. If they had that long career, they were that big. And that’s what happened to them. Where am I going to end up? If I do the same thing, I’m going to be in the exact same position. So I just lived very minimally. I lived on like 60,000 a year. And I started to invest the capital I was making, looking for streams of income to come in from different assets that I controlled, not the brands, not the industry, not a market that I had ownership of. So I bought a duplex and I bought a nineplex and I bought a 24 unit deal.

[18:35] And I was looking for cashflow streams of income to support my income so that if, and when my snowboarding career went to zero, I had money still flowing in from my investments. That’s something I had to go work for. It’s a concept I never heard in K through 12, never even heard it once a passive income or cashflow. It’s the most powerful income you can possibly make because I don’t have to work and I get paid and I don’t get taxed on it. Those are things that just were not taught in K through 12. And I think it’s maybe intentional. I don’t want you to go into that, but, um, you know, that was the big wake up call for me. And then also like taxes, you know, like I shared, I put 10 years in of sacrificing, risking my life, going through some really challenging times, eating peanut butter and jelly. And all of a sudden I make good money. And my CPA says, Hey, just make sure you save 50% of what you’re making. Cause we get it all as athletes. I get the whole check. And at the end of the year, 50% for tax. And I’m like, wait, you’re telling me that I just spent 10 years of risking my life.

[19:24] Now I’m risking my life for real. And I got to get 50% away. He’s like, yeah, you’re in the self-employed quadrant. There’s nothing I can really do. You max out your IRA. We’ll write off your expenses. Cause we got you set up as an LLC, but that’s it. So I didn’t understand how to be a real estate professional and to how to use depreciation to accelerate my wealth building because the tax law is just a set of rules. It’s a guideline, just code on how to behave to be more efficient. That’s what I didn’t know. So I hired a great CPA, an A plus student, right? I wasn’t an A plus student, but I hired the A plus student who’s great with math, understands the tax law and says, Hey, Dan, here’s how you can reposition yourself. And your wife who wants to be a stay-at-home mom, but you’re not going to have kids yet. She works at Red Robin. Does she want to be a real estate professional? If she can manage your 50 units and she gets 750 plus hours, I can put you in the designation of real estate professional and everything you use to write off. We’ll do cost segregation studies, use bonus depreciation. We’ll get your tax bill down to zero. And my life changed.

[20:20] And those are things that I just, you know, most athletes just don’t understand at a young age and they get wiped out. I mean, I don’t think a lot of people, including a lot of real estate agents know about that either. I mean, it’s, it is very powerful. I’m curious real quick, how old were you when you started investing? Like that, that’s like just extremely mature for like what you’re, what I’m expecting to be like a 20 year old, like professional snowboarder. Like it’s like, that’s, it’s incredible. Yeah. I started, I started about my first duplex in 2012. I didn’t, I didn’t really start getting paid until 2008 ish. So there were a few years there where I was asleep to it. It was the middle way in my career. I’m like, Oh, I started seeing these careers end and I was getting punched in the face with like, Holy smokes. That’s how it is for you right now. You who’ve been is huge, larger than life. And so that was really the time 2012.

[21:13] Wow. Yeah. Um, so you went from a duplex, uh, to the, like now you’re at over 3,300, uh, units, right. As a GP, uh, what does that scaling journey actually look like? And what were the biggest mistakes you see newer multifamily investors make when they try to grow too fast? Yeah. Yeah. You know, um, you know, the thing that really was eyeopening for me, I got first, well, I got lucky. I started buying in 2012. It was the bottom of the market. The great financial crisis just ended. And I came into this world of money at the right time. And I just started buying coincidentally at the best time you could have bought in the last long time. Let’s just put it that way. So I didn’t lose for many, many, many deals. I just, things went up, which was good and bad because when you just have a bunch of success, you’re like, Oh, look how smart I am. I’m such a genius. Really. You’re just right. Why riding the cycle wave, right? And so I bought a duplex, then a nineplex and a 24 unit deal. And I started seeing cashflow. I started seeing monthly cash flows really, really. I still remember being like, Holy cow, this actually works. You know, like I’m just a

[22:14] regular average human being here and I’m making this work. I’m finding ways to force appreciation by doing different value add strategies. Cause one of the major things with apartments, that’s a superpower. If you get great at it is you can come in with value add strategies and you can force NOI growth and NOI is just income minus expenses to keep it super simple. So we’re buying a 229 unit deal right now in Plano, Texas, $37 million purchase price. And this wasn’t what we started with, but I’m just going to give you a quick example of the superpower of if you do know what you’re doing is you come in with a five-year plan on this deal and we’re bringing $5 million of CapEx, which is value add capital. And we’ll do a series of four or five different value add strategies to push net operating income up. Like we’re going to upgrade, I think 150 units.

[23:00] We’re going to paint the exterior. We’re going to put rock on the chimney. We’re going to do landscaping. We’re going to upgrade the pool. We’re going to put in a brand new office. We’re going to put in wifi that we control. And as you do these value add strategies, it increases the income of the property because you’re bringing value to the community. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so as you’re doing that, if you can increase NOI by $1 on the front end, on the back end, it’s a $20 valuation at a five cap. So if you can increase NOI over a five-year period by a million dollars, you’re creating 20 million of forced appreciation. And so the value of cash flow and force appreciation mixed with depreciation, it’s just very powerful, very powerful thing. And we went through a pretty rigorous mentoring program, I will say, with a gentleman that helped us transition from more of a mom and pop style ownership to a professional company in 2017 and 2018. And then we started to raise capital from investors. And that’s when we started to buy more and were able to buy bigger deals. Yeah. That power of playing the cap rate game is pretty incredible.

[24:03] It’s, I mean, I mean, we’ve heard, you know, that’s the true is the same is true on the inverse too. Right. So like if, if there is a part, somebody who’s not running things smoothly or there are unexpected expenses, like insurance going up, I know that’s one that people don’t talk about quite as often. We, a lot of people, you know, and we can get into how, how you all have done here, because I know the apartment space has been difficult over the past two years, but a lot of people were stuck, you know, with, they had planned for interest rates to go up, but they hadn’t really expected it to go that high as they did. And some of them were holding bridge debt, which is something that would come due after a certain amount of time. And usually that’s done to, to do these capital improvements like you’re talking about. And then all of a sudden that, that the money was way more expensive. Like it was, the interest was really high and that, and that killed the numbers. And then with all the, you know, the, the hurricanes, all, all these different factors causing insurance rates to go up that, you know, that was another

[25:00] area that, you know, a lot of operators were struggling. They weren’t expecting to have the rates jump that high and drastically impacted their, their NOI. So yeah, I mean, talk about that a little bit. Talk about the, the, the, the downside of the cap rate game and how you all have managed to avert that. Yeah, man, it’s such a, it’s such a great topic right now. And I’ll do really as simple as I can the history lesson from 2012 to 2021, interest rates were low, stayed low and cap rates compressed and values went up. I mean, most everything purchased, if you weren’t completely a moron from 2012 to 2021 did pretty dang well. And some did unbelievably well. And it was this compounding effect of like, wow, these operators are great. You know, you just doubled my money. Here’s all of it back two years, three years later, you doubled it again. Here’s all of it back. And it just kept growing and growing and growing. Then come in late 2021, early 22 inflation’s ripping. The Fed says it’s enough of this. We need to start raising rates. They start raising rates quickly, the fastest we’ve had rates go up in 40 years. And unfortunately, most of these deals that were purchased between

[26:09] 2020 and 22 at 21 were exactly as you just shared, Mateus, they were variable rate bridge debt and variable rate bridge debt means that it’s the interest rate is not fixed. So as the Fed raised rates, their rates followed and the payments on these larger apartments, it’s called 150 to 350 unit apartment could go up by 50, 75, a hundred grand a month. Okay. And so I can tell you right now, nobody underwrote that kind of increase. That kills a deal period. Like you’re done. So the amount of FOMO, the fear of missing out and the excitement that we saw in 2020 and 2021 and even early 2022 was like something that I don’t know if we’ll ever see again in our lifetime. It’s not going to come around anytime soon. I can tell you that for sure because these blow off periods, there’s a blow off peak period.

[26:57] And unfortunately for all those deals that got done in 2021, if you stuck in state in your variable bridge debt, you got wiped or you’re likely getting wiped, which is what’s creating the opportunity today. So all, and the other piece is when rates were so low in 21 and 22, they started building so much new supply and that new supply hit two or three years later and it was done. And that glut of supply poured into the nation, the market and rents came down as well. So you had rates go up, cap rates followed, which put your values down. Supply went up, brought rents down, insurance, expenses, property tax all up. And so now you’re in a position where you’re being forced to sell because variable rate debt, it’s about five year terms, usually three years. And then you got one year, one year extension. So two, one year extensions. So 2021 purchases here in 2026 and you’re being forced to sell. The lender said, you’ve had your five year run, take it to the market. We don’t care what your price is, get out of the deal. We need our capital back. And so that’s where we are today. We’re set up in a position where there is blood in the streets. If you’re a seller and there

[27:55] is opportunity, if you know what you’re doing, if you’re a buyer. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s that whole doing what is opposite of what the, you know, the, the, the, the mass masses think like there, when there’s a lot of fear, uh, it’s time to try to be more greedy. Uh, when there’s a lot of greed, uh, there’s time to be more fearful is, I mean, kind of like what you talked about in 2012, um, when you were buying up, um, property, uh, that that’s another thing that I was going to point out is that, you know, at that time in hindsight, you know, you’re a genius for doing it. And, but at the time I’m sure like, everybody’s like, what are you doing? Why are you getting into real estate? Like everybody just lost their shirt doing this. Like there’s, this is the dumbest thing you could do. It is exactly. You nailed it on the head. I can’t say that better because I had a front row seat to all of it. And I can tell you right now, when the greed was the most steep, when it was so gnarly back in 2021, there was so much greed in the market. It was the most dangerous time when there was the most FOMO and most excitement of I’m ready. Let’s go. Yes. Yeah.

[28:52] It was the most risky time, but it didn’t look like that. It looked like the best time here you are in 2026, totally different market prices are way down. You’re underwriting off of today’s pain and you’re getting this huge price discounts. You’re putting in fixed debt, low leverage, total different time. It’s the safest time, but it looks like the scariest. It’s exactly inverse. You just nailed it. But there’s, yeah. It’s yeah. Cause I mean, there’s still there’s, and you’re hearing a lot about it. If you’re, if you pay attention to the space at all, I mean, you still, you’re hearing about people, big names that are, that are struggling and everything as well. So, I mean, I think it’s, it makes sense that there’s that, that fear there still. Yeah.

[29:29] Yeah. So you talked about three things that changed your life, passive income, hedging inflation and depreciation for a real estate agent who is active in sales, but has not yet started investing. How would you explain why those three things matter more than just saving money? Man, that is, that is the most critical question you could possibly ask me. I think the most value I could bring is answering this question really easily and simply to understand. So in my snowboarding career, like a real estate agent, I’m making good income, right? As long as I keep making good income as a snowboarder, it’s really not that big of a deal until the point comes where I stopped making income and I’ve got all these expenses. So for me, I realized quickly, my ordinary earned income as a snowboarder or a real estate agent is not the most powerful income I could have. It’s actually pretty volatile and, and, and, and somewhat dangerous to have me relying only on my snowboarding income. I saw, I saw all these athletes getting wiped out.

[30:22] So how do I start to create multiple streams of income from different investments and for the capital I do have, instead of it, just sitting in my bank account and letting inflation slowly deteriorate it because they’ll, they’ll continue to print currency. We’re in, we’re in a new time here in 2026, where they have to continue to print currency in order to keep the economy from crashing. So as they continue to print the currency, and by the way, a hundred percent of currencies in the history of the world, regimes, dynasties, past empires, a hundred percent have either failed or been replaced. So the dollar’s future is down. The value is down. Is it going to be replaced or go to zero? I don’t know. When is it going to happen? I don’t know. It doesn’t, doesn’t really matter.

[31:03] What does matter is what are we going to do now with what we do have today to help protect against what’s likely coming based off history. And so that’s why owning things that are real, you know, anything that’s actually retains value or when they continue to print, that’s why the passive income and hedging inflation is such a powerful duo because you got cash coming in that you control now and your capital that’s creating that income is protected as they print. And so those two pieces, you put them together, they’re a superpower. And for a real estate agent, if you’re a real estate professional, you can now take advantage of depreciation, bonus depreciation, which is back indefinitely. I see my CPA says he doesn’t think it’ll ever go away.

[31:44] Now you can take advantage of a hundred percent bonus depreciation with cost seg studies. Like if I’m a real estate agent and I’m listening to this right now, I am very seriously looking at investing in real estate these next three years at a market bottom. Is that in, we don’t know for sure if it’s bottomed out, but we know it’s way safer than it was five years ago, guaranteed based on the data. And you can get the bonus depreciation to offset your income to be able to invest more. And now you get on the side of inflation, like to be listening to this show right now, to hear that one concept, it’s the most important thing I learned in my life. That’s changed my life as a snowboarder to a full-time investor. Yeah, it is. It is wild. And I think to, to further highlight that, you know, depreciation and how it can work. I have an anecdotal, you know, we, we, we invested in a syndication. It was mobile home park. So, you know, it was, there was very heavy depreciation the first year. And we, we got into it, we invested $50,000. And so anybody listening, like understand that the numbers I’m saying it’s different, every deal you got to like,

[32:46] you got some have minimums of a hundred thousand dollars. There’s, you know, there’s all sorts of different ways this is work. But we, we invested $50,000 and it was actually like near the end of the year. And so we got the, what is it? The K9? K1. K9. That’s a dog. I know what you mean. And in a couple months, we, we got a write-off of $66,000 off of investing 50. And as a real estate professional, it like, so often when you’re depreciating assets, if you’re like, you’re working with a doctor and they don’t have a real estate designation and they’re buying a rental there, they can depreciate that rental. And, you know, you can do the whole, like, you know, 27 years of the, of the, of the structure. They’re only able to, to, to reduce their passive income.

[33:30] But as a real estate professional, you can, you can reduce your active income. So like that $66,000 when took off my commissions off of your income as well, that it’s, it’s a beautiful, beautiful thing. And that’s what, like, like you were saying, like, you know, with your, with your spouse, being a real estate professional, being able to offset your large income as a professional snowboarder is, is just, is just huge. And that’s why often, or sometimes doctors, wives, or husbands will often become real estate professionals as well for, for that exact reason. So. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yep. A hundred percent. The one piece I would add to your listeners that I, I could see clearly, and I’m going to stick to it. My CPA told me this years ago, my CPA is phenomenal.

[34:12] He said, never invest solely for depreciation. So a lot of folks that exited in 21 on these huge gains, which we gave them huge gains because the market was just going crazy. You know, they would triple their money in two years and they’re like, yo, I can’t pay tax on this. I’m going to throw it all into the next deal. You’ve got to make sure you’re with a great operator, you know, like, and trust and your timing is right. I’d rather pay the tax, keep my cash, pay the tax and save. And, you know, have that bill, then lose all that equity, all that investment. So always, always, always invest with a great operator, you know, like, and trust and make sure your timing is solid on where you are in the market cycle about, then the depreciation is icing on the cake for the last couple of years. I would be investing happily, confidently. And I have been.

[34:57] Yeah, no, that’s a very good point for sure. And I like, I like the fact that, um, syndications, especially, you know, like ones that are focused on real estate, um, traditional, like investment kind of apartments, that kind of stuff. It’s, it’s things that real estate agents can really understand. Um, as well. I mean, there’s, there’s comparables like, you know, where, what’s the market rents, you know, things like that. I think it’s just, it’s speaking the same language. It’s really in your, your wheelhouse, even if you’re not investing in your market. Um, but it, you know, it’s just powerful because, you know, if you’re investing in stocks, I mean, this is kind of like a, uh, it could be like a considered like a realtor’s like 401k, right? Like you’re, you’re, um, investing in what, you know, instead of like, you know, the index 500 or, or, you know, throwing a ton of money at Tesla or throwing a ton of money at, um, you know, uh, Nvidia, like things that like are trending that you don’t really understand, like you understand real estate. Um, and so it doesn’t make sense.

[35:49] Yeah. The superpower for your listeners, if they’re real estate agents is the timing’s opening up and you get some passive income, you control your hedge inflation, and you can use the depreciation upfront. I mean, that is about as good as it can get. Yeah. And, and when that money comes back, when you get your dividends, you can use it now. You don’t have to wait until you’re retired. Um, the tax advantages are there. So like, you know, it’s, it’s, I think why not do this instead of a 401k, but I’m, you know, a lot, a lot of folks have been using their 401k as they invest with us, I’d be turning them in from a 401k to a solo 401k. You can do that as well. You do not get that appreciation with that though. Sure. Yeah. Um, I, I want to ask quick, and I’m sure you have some, some questions. How, how has this career, how is, how have your careers affected your personal life, family, um, et cetera? Like, you know, this is yeah. High stress, you know, you know, like the high, um, I can’t think of the word now adrenaline, um, it has to take some sort of a toll on, on the family as well. So how do you manage that? Yeah, that’s a great question. You know,

[36:54] I, the biggest thing for us is we have gone through, you know, like I said, 2012 to 2021 was a pretty easy time to be in real estate. 2021 late on to 2024 was really challenging and a lot of lessons were learned. And number one, I’m grateful for those lessons because those lessons, if you learn them well, will make you unique for those that go through it and stick around, you’re, you’re going to be unique. The piece for me, I think is just building a team, you know, at Granite Towers, we continue to add team members that are better than I could be in those specific areas. And it allows more freedom. It allows me to lean on them more. It allows meeting of the minds. And so a huge part that I personally really love for real estate, we say it since day one, and I’ll say it till I die is best team in real estate wins. And so hiring the great, the greatest, the most sophisticated CPA, you can the best legal team, the best property management, asset managers, capital raise partners, that right there is how you stay sane and how you perform incredibly well. And so, um, that’s the biggest focus for me is being a great leader. How do I show up for my team? How do we create a really

[38:02] clear, powerful vision that takes care of the parties and fulfills on our attempts to fulfill on all of these relevant parties? And how do we move together and protect and build wealth for our investors? So it’s really team effort. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. When you, I just wanted to ask you, yeah, when you transitioned out of snowboarding, um, did you experience any sense of loss and or relief ending? And, and I’m curious what the transition was like out of that career and into something else. If there was like a kind of an adjustment period trying to figure out who do I want to be next or who am I now that that part of my life might be done? Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s a, it’s definitely a common theme as athletes transition. And I, I did experience some of it.

[38:49] I don’t think I had it as bad as a lot of my friends, you know, for me, when the final transition really happened, I still remember some of the phone calls and some of the meetings from my main brands, you know, um, I can still remember the time getting fired and were letting go, let go from one of the companies I wrote for, for almost 15 years and was really the main support for my entire career. And I got the call. I was in my office at my other house here in town. It was summertime and it sounded like something died on the other end of the line. It was just literally like breezy. Hey man, we got to let you go. And I remember, you know, I was already pretty far down the way with real estate and I already knew my next career was a real estate investor. So there was no, like, who am I now? What am I going to go do? I already knew where I was going, but even with that, it was such a punch of unexpected timing and they were so good to me too. You know, they, they prepaid my contract. They’re like, we’re, we were, you know, they’re, they were at some positioning in the company, repositioning

[39:42] the company and, uh, going public. And they’re like, we gotta, we gotta pay you out now. And so they prepaid me a year and a half, which was unbelievable, like unheard of, you know, brand manager, like what they prepaid your contract a year and a half before you even were owed the money. That’s a good, they were to me. But with that, even with that, just the transition of knowing that this is the beginning of the end. I remember just hanging the phone up, hit my knees and just falling on the floor and crying for a while. Oh, like it was just, it was a realization that it was coming to an end and it was going to come to an end quick. And, you know, looking back, it was the right time. I had kids at the time already, you know, I’ve got a 13 year old son.

[40:16] Now I got a seven year old, I got a four year old and I was still traveling immensely. Like in the snowboarder, it sounds really beautiful. And it is for the right time. You know, I was gone for two weeks. I come home for two days, two weeks, and that was all winter. And my kids would start to forget. They wouldn’t even ask about dad anymore. You know, I’d be gone and they’re, they wouldn’t even, Melissa’s like, they’re not asking about you anymore. They don’t, they don’t know you exist. And I was like, I remember being in Alaska. She’s like, you should come home. I just want you to hear that. Like the kids, they don’t even know you. And so, you know, that was, that was another point for me. I’m like, yeah, I think it’s about time to hang it up. You know, there was at, there was a huge event in Alaska where one of my friends got buried. He almost died. I was like, okay, these are some signs that I’m ready to step out. And it was a freaking amazing career.

[40:57] Yes, it was. It is. It does. You’re right. I mean, you’re also naming, like you had things to turn to, as you were turning away from snowboarding and you’re right, that does make the transition so much smoother, even though it softens it maybe, but any transition is, um, it has its edges. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I’m sure there was a lot of people you knew that got that phone call that didn’t really have a what’s next. So that, um, silver lining there, like incredibly smart of you to, to have that transition. Yeah. And many, many guys did not have that next step. And it was so hard to watch. I mean, it was one of my friends committed suicide, you know, it was like, that was unbelievable. I couldn’t believe it’s such a powerful human being, such an amazing guy. So much, so much potential just didn’t expect it done. Wow.

[41:44] Yeah. It makes me really wish that they had some sort of like coaching support or like, you know, even to help athletes understand what that transition might be like, or, or, you know, what, you can just educate them, you know, so it’s not all in the moment all the time. Yeah. Yeah. They have, I’m a part of this awesome group called PAC. It’s called pro athlete community. And they have, I think 750 athletes that are a part of it. We’re either professionals are about to retire or have retired. And I love connecting with those folks. They’re such amazing individuals. We had a huge get together in Phoenix about a month and a half ago. And I met so many amazing folks, a lot of NFL, NBA, major league baseball guys that have, you know, two, three, four year run jumped around a lot. They can see retirement coming or they’re in the process. And it’s the same story.

[42:31] It’s a really, really challenging time. And the more you can get ahead of what’s definitely coming, even if for your listeners right now, real estate agents, people been see retirement coming, get ahead of those changes because when they do come, you have supplements of income paying you. It’s just not that big of a deal. It’s still not maybe the most fun to go through, but it’s not like, oh man, not only am I emotionally distraught, how am I going to keep food on the table? You want to get away from that? Absolutely. I mean, so yeah, the, the book that’s coming out and kind of what we teach is like the ideal, which, you know, it’s going to be hard for a lot of people to do would be to basically build up your passive income to, you know, be a hundred percent of what you need to live on as you go. Don’t raise your, your lifestyle before, before you have that, that built up.

[43:17] Because I think that’s like, you know, in the good times, you know, when it’s easy to make money, hand over fist in real estate, you know, it’s tempting to get into the business and then think you need to appear successful. So you rent the Porsche. I mean, it’s, there’s a lot of parallels here. Right. And, and then, you know, when things are hard, if you’re, you’re not making any money, they’re going to get out of business. And so, you know, market cycles, retirement, all that kind of stuff is, is just so critical to build up that base as you go. Yeah. What you’re doing, what you’re preaching here, I think is just gold. Keep going, keep, keep sharing it because you know, a wealth, what you’re talking about here in our world is called a wealth ratio.

[43:53] If you have one to one, your passive income matches your expenses. Two to one, you have two times a passive one expense, you know? So if I got 10,000 passive, 10,000 expenses, I’m out at a one. Ideally, you say at a 1.5 minimum rest your life. And until you’re there, just delay some gratification and build true wealth, you know, until you’re at a 1.5 or a two, keep putting in the work and keep going and keep building that level. And ideally you can get to a place where money never becomes an issue ever again. I love it. Dan, there’s been a million golden nuggets already, but I do have to ask if you have some of the golden nuggets for our listeners. Yeah. I’d say the two things that I would look back at my life that were the most pivotal points in my life was, was really clear decisions or outcomes to be a pro snowboarder. And then a really clear outcome and decision to be a real estate investor. Um, you know, those beacons for focus at those different times in my life have been the Holy grail of, okay, I know where I’m going.

[44:51] I know exactly what success looks like, and I can see it clearly in my mind’s eye. And then after that, the second part is to create beliefs or ideas of why you must achieve it, why you can achieve it, find other people who’ve achieved it and build the confidence and belief and desire that will make you absolutely unstoppable. Because once you get into a state of burning desire and certainty that you can achieve it, nothing can stop you. That’s how it occurs to me. That’s how it’s been for me in 42 years of being here that changes. I’ll let you know. I love it. That’s powerful. Um, what about a favorite book or a fundamental book you think everybody should read? You know, um, my son is, he’s, he’s reading how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie and we’ve been going through it together. And it’s just, uh, it’s such a powerful book on showing up and being a person that you enjoy being around. You know, people do business with folks that they know, like, and trust, and you gotta be likable. And so, you know, if you’re not a likable human being, it’s very difficult to associate with folks and build

[45:53] relationships with people who, you know, uh, you’re probably going to want to associate with. So it’s a book I haven’t read in a long time and I’m rereading it with them and it’s just been phenomenal reminder. That’s probably my answer as well. Wow. Really? You know that book? Well, it’s one of his favorites. Really? It’s one that I’ve, I’ve often been like, Eric, we should maybe, maybe this book just arrives to this person’s mailbox. I love that. You know, what’s interesting too, I’ll tell you is the people who need it the most want it the least. That’s how it seems like, like, I’m like, Oh my gosh, this person’s life. They, the person you’re being, you could never attract success. Here’s this book. I’m like, I’m not reading that. It’s like, okay, well, good luck. Have fun with that. Yeah, absolutely. Avoiding the angle there is why I want to make it anonymous, right? Yeah. Good angle. Um, Dan, if, if, if people want to follow you for more, I want to learn more about your offerings, et cetera. Like where can they find you?

[46:50] Yeah. I’d say just go to our website. It’s granite towers, equity group.com. And there’s a contact us button. Leave us comment, your email phone number. We’ll follow up with you. Would love to have a call. See if we can help. You can be on our mailing list to see future real estate deals. We do multifamily and triple net lease. And that’s, that’s all we focus on. Awesome. Well, Dan, it’s been a lot of fun talking to you. Uh, first pro snowboarder on the show. So it was a lot of fun for me. Oh, thank you. I had a great time as well. Appreciate you having me. Thanks for listening to the REI agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week, visit REI agent.com for more content until next time.

[47:29] Keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.